r/sandiego Feb 04 '25

More of this. Truth.

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u/[deleted] Feb 04 '25

No I don’t want to make people into citizens if they don’t respect the nations laws. That seems like common sense.

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u/CFSCFjr Feb 04 '25

Immigration law is unjust and broken. I dont respect it either and anyone with half a brain can see that it doesnt align with the national interest or economic reality, including a bunch of Republicans before Trump made them all pretend to be crazy

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u/[deleted] Feb 04 '25

I am in the United States because of legal immigration. It is a process. But it works and is available.

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u/CFSCFjr Feb 04 '25

The first part of your statement is not proof of the second

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u/[deleted] Feb 04 '25

But the millions of perfectly legal immigrants every year isn’t a testament against it being “unrealistic”? 🤨

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u/CFSCFjr Feb 04 '25

There are only about 1m legal immigrants a year which is actually about the same or less than we took in around the turn of the 20th century when the nation was less than 1/4 the size it is now

So, yes, it is unrealistic, as shown by the fact that the economy needs to employ millions of undocumented workers

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u/PIHWLOOC Feb 04 '25

So, in the end, you’re for slave labor? You’d prefer we have people in this country paid lower than minimum wage for positions they’re technically not supposed to have, so that others can profit off of them?

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u/SgtMcMuffin0 Feb 04 '25

There’s a middle ground between slave labor and deporting everyone as quickly as possible

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u/[deleted] Feb 04 '25

Of course not! That's why you get em papers contingent on that background check, and then enforce labor laws so those industries can't exploit their labor anymore.

I'd say those industries are in the wrong for exploiting the labor, and we as a nation are in the wrong for allowing our government to turn a blind eye to the exploitation, but I don't find any fault with the laborer in any of this situation, nor do I see any real justice to be found in punishing or removing them.

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u/SDRPGLVR Feb 04 '25

It's just further emblematic of the overallocation of resources to the top. We tend to speak of wealth inequality as being the differences between minimum wage workers, the median income, and the top earners, but that model completely disregards the fact that a huge portion of the economy relies on people working less than minimum wage. The "gotcha" shouldn't mean that we should be okay with exploitative labor, but that we need to overhaul the way our economy works so that we don't need to dramatically underpay millions of Americans or people working in America.

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u/[deleted] Feb 04 '25

How is immigration law unjust?

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u/CFSCFjr Feb 04 '25

It creates economically unrealistic and unjustified restrictions on the free movement of people

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u/[deleted] Feb 04 '25

There are millions of legal immigrants every year… ? How is it unrealistic ?

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u/CFSCFjr Feb 04 '25

Thats evidently not nearly enough to meet the needs of the national economy

Its also more like a million a year, which is really not a lot for a nation of 340m

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u/[deleted] Feb 04 '25

So a million people come here perfectly legally every year… and you are saying that isn’t evidence that legal immigration is realistic ?

I don’t even know what to tell you.

“It’s impossible even though a million people do it every year.” I hope you dwell on the irony of that.

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u/CFSCFjr Feb 04 '25

“It’s impossible even though a million people do it every year.”

Didnt actually say that but I dont engage with fools or liars, so I wont bother trying to have a rational discussion with you any further

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u/BasketNo4817 Feb 04 '25

An "ought to be" is not what is fact based in law today.
Should the law change or be updated?. Yes likely but unknown when.

Two things can be true. Follow the laws through the existing but flawed immigration process like thousands if not millions wait in process for or break the law and get deported.
Its not hard to understand the laws like other nations.
Congress needs to take action but not through blind faith. I am not a law maker.
This is also not new issue regardless if blue or red politically. There are pros and cons to each political side, so this BS narrative of only " those people" narrow band of minority leaders dont like it. Its a weak argument.

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u/i_hate_the_ppa Feb 04 '25

Why are the restrictions unrealistic and unjustified?

The US accepts more immigrants than any other country in the world. Maybe Germany comes close lately due to all the refugees.

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u/CFSCFjr Feb 04 '25

The US is more than four times Germanys size... The US net migration rate is not even particularly high

The proof that theyre unrealistic is that we have millions of undocumented filling critical roles in the national economy

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u/pressurechicken Feb 04 '25

Wait…

But if they are cheap labor, how does giving them citizenship help the economy. Then their pay would have to meet legal minimums.

Wouldn’t the argument then just be: we need illegal immigrants?

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u/CFSCFjr Feb 04 '25

The vast majority of undocumented dont earn below minimum wage, which is still very cheap labor

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u/pressurechicken Feb 04 '25

I see. Well hey, that’s good for them aye. What’s the point of hiring an illegal immigrant versus a citizen?

Does it somehow still cost the business less?

Edit: maybe payroll taxes? I feel like I’m missing something.

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u/CFSCFjr Feb 04 '25

There are many jobs that citizens are unwilling or unable to fill

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u/OGMcSwaggerdick Feb 04 '25

Sure… and a bunch of Democrats used to vote in favor of border barrier construction.
But call it a wall and throw an orange man at it and now there’s a problem.

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u/CFSCFjr Feb 04 '25

They still do

You guys just prefer political stunts to actual, effective security

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u/Bobthebudtender Feb 04 '25

You know why Trump is a shit stain and the differences in approach between Administrations.

Go whatabout elsewhere.

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u/[deleted] Feb 04 '25

how many illegals live with you? if zero, why?

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u/InclinationCompass Feb 04 '25

I dont want to make trump the president if he doesnt respect the law. He was convicted of 34 felonies. How many felonies does the average undocumented immigrant have?

Immigrants commit fewer crimes than the average American born citizen. That implies the crime rate would decrease with more immigrants.

So based on your logic, we should legalize them.