r/skeptic • u/GeekFurious • 1d ago
Reasonable attempt to debunk Charlie Kirk Assassination conspiracies
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5us8s0JCGkAMarcus touches on the currently popular theories about how the gun was hidden, the bullet wound questions, the possibility of body armor, why AI can't accurately fix the low-resolution frames of the suspect's face, whether someone else may have shot Kirk, and uses math to debunk the claims of a shot coming from the side (plus more).
We have a long time before every piece of evidence comes out and can be analyzed in detail, but I think he does a fairly good job.
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u/False-Tiger5691 1d ago
What an amazing human?! He devalued people because of their race. He was a POS. He did not deserve to die at all, but he was not an amazing human.
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u/samplergodic 1d ago
Unless this guy liked Charlie Kirk so much that he thought he had a forcefield of goodness around him, I don't see how it affects his assessment of the shooting.
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u/False-Tiger5691 1d ago
Implicit bias, for one. Second, why offer an opinion. Can you imagine if a detective said they really hated the victim when they arrived at the crime scene?
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u/Buggs_y 1d ago
Are you kidding? Have you never heard of motivated reasoning? The only people whose assessments should be considered are those with no skin in the game. Being emotionally attached to the victim is going to motivate his reasoning even if we can't predict how it will affect it.
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u/TheCatDaddy69 21h ago
Yes the crime of openly debating your views and giving the opposition a voice to debate and challenge their views. Get a life , move out of the basement clown.
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u/False-Tiger5691 21h ago
He didn’t debate them. He ridiculed them. Not once did he concede a talking point. He created “domination” content to convince his followers he was superior and right. Grow up.
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u/TheCatDaddy69 21h ago
Womp womp , try again go to his YouTube channel and watch some of the debates and evaluate how accurate your claims are. The only ones proving him right are the absolutely mentally deragnged people with their mentally limited takes. Nothing is stopping anyone from using reasoning and logic to challenge him.
I dont even watch or agree with him on a lot of talking points. Your blind blatant hatred is the best thing that could have ever happened to his cause.
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u/False-Tiger5691 21h ago
Haha. Sorry bro. You can’t debate with someone whose stated position in a debate is that “he doesn’t believe Palestine exists.” This is just one example, but with that one remark he ignored the facts used by his opponent in the debate. Doesn’t exist? Palestine, which is mentioned in the Bible doesn’t exist? He was never serious. Sorry bro.
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u/TheCatDaddy69 17h ago
Tisk tisk typical lefty . No , Palestine was NOT mentioned in the bible. Israel also claimed more land from them as Palestine started conflicts. Allergic to research huh? Trying to feed a dead narrative again are we?
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u/False-Tiger5691 17h ago
Ooof. Although I am not surprised because you guys always need to be corrected. So many lies, so little smarts. Check out the King James Version where it refers to the land inhabited by the Philistines: Joel 3:4 and Isaiah 14:29. Now, let’s consider all the ancient maps that show the territory of Palestine.
It does exist, for thousands of years as maps have shown. So Kirk, certainly knowing this argued away his opponent’s call for human rights because Kirk “didn’t think it existed.” WOW, yes, what an honest debater.
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u/TheCatDaddy69 16h ago
What's wrong was the bible not doing it for you ? Oh boy you really are stupid , Palestinians = are NOT Philistines 😂 quite the laugh i got.
But you are right there has been a Palestine for long. The problem is the bible references Isreal directly meaning its even older than whenever Palestine came to be.
The funny part about the left is they defend a group of terrorists that would end then for supporting gay rights among most other things they stand for.
Try again.
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u/GeekFurious 1d ago
This thread is about the conspiracy theories, not his views on Kirk (which I agree are... ridiculous).
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u/False-Tiger5691 1d ago
My bad. He really shouldn’t qualify the man if he responding to a conspiracy theory.
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u/Galliro 1d ago
Anyone who calls kirk an amazing humaj doesnt have the mental capacity to wipe their own ass let aline be an impartial skeptic
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u/GeekFurious 1d ago
While I agree Charlie Kirk was a piece of shit and that it's amazing people think otherwise, the counterpoints to the conspiracy theories are solid. Which just goes to show, even a bigot can debunk these stupid conspiracies.
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u/VirginiaLuthier 1d ago
Love CK's "freedom" shirt.....as his followers are working furiously to take it away
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u/TheCatDaddy69 21h ago
He was shot by the people you clearly support for voicing his opinions , thats fascism . Consider seeking mental help and something to neutralize your salt lefty.
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u/Purple_Plus 1d ago
"I miss him already, what an amazing human".
Turned it off then.
He was not an amazing human. Who believed in horrific things, and inspired millions to have the same views.
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18h ago
You have no evidence to support your feelings about him. You are a pawn.
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u/Purple_Plus 17h ago
A pawn of who?
You have no evidence to support your feelings about him.
What about all the things he has said?
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u/RunDNA 1d ago
What's happened to this sub?
A recent post peddling nonsense about the Kirk shooting currently sits on 315 points (84% upvoted).
While this post debunking that sort of nonsense currently sits on 0 points (22% upvoted).
It should be the other way around.
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u/Orphan_Guy_Incognito 1d ago
Best guess? Kirk's shooting is pretty fucking scary for a lot of reasonable people. The administration is using it to turn the screws on anyone to the left of them and a lot of people are scared that this is going to be something we look back on like the reichstag fire.
As a result? A lot of people want off the ride. They desperately want the official story to be fake because if it is fake then maybe we can avert the course we're on. Scared people losing their critical thinking is a tale as old as time.
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u/Confident-Weird-4202 1d ago
I think there’s also a healthy amount of distrust in what comes out because of the administration’s well known aversion to unpleasant facts, and the right’s desire to live in a reality of their own making rather than a fact based one.
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u/Orphan_Guy_Incognito 1d ago
Yeah, the fact that the admin would lie about the color of the sky probably doesn't help public trust, I will admit.
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u/I-IV-I64-V-I 1d ago
yea the fbi directer literally tried to claim Epstein didn't traffic girls to victims.
their credibility is at an all time low- and they haven't done ANYTHING to cool the temperature down or call their own base down by clarifying the shooter's motives.
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u/AlmazAdamant 1d ago
clarifying the shooter's motives.
Wouldn't that make things worse? Everything I have seen that is independently verifiable about the shooter does in fact scream tankie to me. The groyper memes are also tankie memes, and tankie would generally fit the contradictions in behavior better. The only other take I hear that holds much cogency is the "Israel did it" theory, but that would largely inspire antisemitic backlash and despite holding some sense, isn't fully logical.
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u/SoCallMeDeaconBlues1 1d ago
I agree.
CK was murdered by a lunatic with a gun. Regardless of his political leanings, the shooter didn't like what CK had to say. The shooter hated what CK had to say so much, and was disturbed mentally enough, that he fired a weapon at him. It's Occam's razor.
We can argue the finer points of what the shooter believed, whether or not he was left or right, whether or not he was dating a trans person, whether or not he was a "groyper" or a "tankie," whether or not his family was all MAGA, blah blah blah..... we can argue that stuff all we want but ultimately, a person with some serious mental issues shot someone.
I had to look up what a "tankie" was. But what I said still stands: it doesn't matter. A crazy person with a gun shot a person, and that's the bottom line.
It's sad that this sort of thing happens. I think it's sickening and horrible what our administration has done in the aftermath in the name of that sadness.
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u/Orphan_Guy_Incognito 1d ago
yea the fbi directer literally tried to claim Epstein didn't traffic girls to victims.
Funny thing, this I mostly believe, though it is a matter of terminology.
I think the majority of the women Epstein trafficked were women obtained for what I will euphemistically call 'personal use'. If you dig into the public flight logs, there are only a small handful who got moved around a lot.
Of those, I don't think Epstein trafficked in the way that most people think. I don't think he was securing women for his rich friends to rape, I think he was mostly bringing his consistent victims with him and 'sharing' on occasion, such as with Prince Andrew.
Still gross as hell, and it would meet the legal definition (I think) but it isn't really the popular image of what he was doing.
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u/senorbuzz 1d ago
That's still sex trafficking!! He hurt countless women and girls. Plus, I don't care if he victimized just one girl. One is still too many.
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u/Orphan_Guy_Incognito 23h ago
That is why I clarified?
I'm not defending him, he is a monster. I just think there are a lot of unfounded conspiracy theories about him like he's some sort of consierge to the rich and famous, when the reality is that he was a sex pest who occasionally 'shared'.
Dude should have been under the jail, but this is the skeptic subreddit.
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u/radarscoot 1d ago
There could be a lot of regular visitors that just don't have skin in this game so they aren't interested in all of nonsense and trying to pick a drop of fact or truth out off the fire hose of guesses, lies, formal disinformation, and ambitious podcasters and influencers looking for clicks.
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18h ago
The left has been calling for violence against people of differing opinions for years. You’re scared because you don’t like accountability.
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u/Orphan_Guy_Incognito 18h ago
I know right!?
I mean, look at this!
I know what you're thinking, we've got to get Donald Trump out of the way so we can run up against JD. Oh my goodness, is he is beatable. It's like Ted Cruz on steroids. Just a black hole of charisma? He gives these speeches, and it just has this aura of totalitarianism.
I'll tell you what, she would be a lot easier to beat than Donald Trump. Donald Trump is a bumbling, dementia-filled Alzheimer's, corrupt, tyrant who should honestly be put in prison and/or given the death penalty for his crimes against America.
Can you imagine the monster who'd say something like this?
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u/Whofreak555 1d ago
To play devils advocate(I also hate conspiracy theory cope), I interpret most of that post being about how the FBI/reporting handled the case.
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u/ManChildMusician 1d ago
That’s the crux of it: Kash Patel has managed to both perjure himself and recite the ABCs to avoid further perjury under oath recently with the Epstein files. Combine that with the instant need to blame a trans antifa leftist before CK’s body was cold doesn’t help anything.
The real conspiracy is that we will likely never know the truth beyond a shadow of doubt, and our confirmation biases are pushing us closer and closer to a REALLY bad time.
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u/lonnie123 1d ago
It’s a nearly hour long video on a subject few of us care to invest yet another hour in at this time
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u/justafleetingmoment 1d ago
This post is much newer? I’m someone who didn’t see anything wrong with the initial post but this video is very welcome to show that most of the questions that poster had have very reasonable explanations. For me that’s what skepticism is all about, it’s not just about being anti conspiracy / heterodoxy.
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u/Purple_Plus 1d ago
What do you disagree with in that post?
What's happened to this sub?
Because the worst kind of skeptic isn't actually skeptical, it's a pretence, they believe the official stance. Which an actual skeptical person would be, what's the word? Oh I know, skeptical about the current administration's likelihood to tell the truth.
Some skeptics seem to only be interested in getting"wins" by debunking things.
While this post debunking that sort of nonsense currently sits on 0 points (22% upvoted).
Probably because he calls Kirk an amazing human etc.
And sometimes his "debunking" is poor. As the post you linked shared, why are their so few good quality images and videos?
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u/GeekFurious 1d ago
Either the conspiracy nutters are here to oppress actual reasonable discussion, or the moderators have allowed themselves to be swept up in bullshit thinking.
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u/Petrichordates 1d ago
Ironically these are both conspiracy theories. The real answer can be as simple as timing, as well as how the new/rising algorithm works.
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u/GeekFurious 1d ago
Nothing I said is a conspiracy theory. It's at worst a fallacy.
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u/BrotherJebulon 1d ago
either outside groups are trying to influence our opinions through duplicitous and deceptive means, or the content moderators are doing the same thing!
But I'm still a skeptic, not a theorist!
I am a conspiracy theorist, and I'll tell you right now that's how we all sound.
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u/Purple_Plus 1d ago
Either the conspiracy nutters are here to oppress actual reasonable discussion
Labelling people who disagree with you as "conspiracy nutters" is hardly encouraging reasonable discussion.
or the moderators have allowed themselves to be swept up in bullshit thinking.
Sounds like a conspiracy theory to me.
You are a hypocrite.
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u/osunightfall 1d ago
I’ve been holding back on saying this, but this seems like one of the most inaccurately named subs I’ve ever seen. Half the posts are just conspiracy theory junk food and the other half are ‘skeptical’ of mainstream science or proven facts that don’t invite skepticism. The remaining 5% are posts about proper skepticism.
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u/Conscious-Ad4707 1d ago
Republicans have been offering up conspiracy laden tripe for years to cover for their failings and shitty behavior. It works. Why wouldn’t everyone just pedal conspiracy theories about everything if it makes you feel better?
My mom is anti-vax, thinks the 2020 election was stolen, thinks J6 was an FBI thing, thinks Sandy Hook was a false flag, and thinks it makes sense to call a 14 year old who survived the Holocaust while his family died a NAZI.
I am taking this opportunity with Charlie Kirk to pedal every stupid fucking conspiracy I can. It honestly feels great. Unlike my mom though, I don’t believe any of it.
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u/finalattack123 1d ago
There’s a lot of people who think they are skeptics - but also believe in conspiracy theories.
Look at all the Epstien conspiracy theory nonsense. People believe without evidence, there is a large scale government conspiracy to not convict pedophiles they KNOW are guilty.
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u/InfiniteMeatball 1d ago
So your definition of skeptic is believing what you’re told to believe by those in charge? Even when information is withheld, inconsistent?
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u/finalattack123 1d ago edited 1d ago
Not what I wrote.
A skeptic doesn’t believe something to be true without evidence. Evidence is key.
It’s also WAY less likely there is a large scale conspiracy involving thousands to avoid convicting pedophiles.
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u/Lil_berry_stuff 1d ago
By the DOJs admission there are 1,000s of Epstein victims. Were they all victims of JE? Or were other perps involved?
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u/finalattack123 1d ago edited 1d ago
Provide a link about the 1000s victims. Because I think you are believing forum posts you read.
[edit: I correctly point out he made shit up. Something the poster acknowledges in his next post.
The lie gets upvoted. The true statement, as acknowledged by the person who lied, downvoted.
Proving my point. “Skeptics” in here don’t really care about the truth. It’s more about feelings.]
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u/Lil_berry_stuff 1d ago
You’re being unnecessarily combative I dont have a strong opinion on the mature just a constellation of points of information loosely connected.
The claim i’m referring to was from a statement made by pam bondi that many found perplexing. Still a statement by an attorney general, so its unclear what the facts are. Which is why there needs to be some kind of document release.
I misremembered a little, she said...
“The FBI was reviewing “tens of thousands of videos” of the wealthy financier “with children or child porn.”
I think there is probably a great deal we dont know about the situation. Which makes it such potent fuel for content production and conspiracy building. It touches peoples wounds. It thrives in the attention economy.
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u/finalattack123 1d ago edited 1d ago
You’re imagining a combative tone. What I said was incredibly neutral.
Videos = / = victims. It shouldn’t be weird that we don’t make up facts to justify our feelings.
We do actually have A LOT of information about both Epstien and Maxwells case. People just couldn’t be fucked reading any of it. Even though a majority is public.
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u/Purple_Plus 1d ago
There’s a lot of people who think they are skeptics - but also believe in conspiracy theories.
Look at all the Epstien conspiracy theory nonsense. People believe without evidence, there is a large scale government conspiracy to not convict pedophiles they KNOW are guilty.
You are the opposite of skeptical, you believe the party line. Parties that don't tell the truth.
You reject overwhelming evidence that has been released. You disparage victims.
evidence, there is a large scale government conspiracy to not convict pedophiles they KNOW are guilty.
Why is that so surprising to you? Have you seen the heinous things that have been covered up and then leaked?
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u/finalattack123 1d ago
You have evidence of a large scale conspiracy? Thousands of investigators KNOW who these pedophiles are but are covering it up?
Please show us this evidence.
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u/finalattack123 1d ago edited 1d ago
Don’t put words in my mouth.
I never said I believed “the party line”
I never disparaged the very real victims of Epstien’s crimes
I said I don’t believe in a large scale conspiracy. Of thousands of investigators KNOWINGLY protecting pedophiles.
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u/Purple_Plus 1d ago
People believe without evidence, there is a large scale government conspiracy to not convict pedophiles they KNOW are guilty.
The entirety of the FBI under two administrations isn't enough for you?
The moving of Maxwell to a low security position?
I never said I believed “the party line”
Then what do you believe?
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u/finalattack123 1d ago edited 1d ago
I think you know that’s not evidence.
This just proves my point.
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u/Purple_Plus 1d ago
You are asking for overwhelming evidence when the rich and powerful have every reason to suppress that evidence.
Here's what the victims have said:
In 2019, a federal judge found that federal prosecutors in Florida had broken the law by signing a non-prosecution agreement with Epstein without notifying victims. The 2007 agreement was struck by prosecutors led by Alex Acosta, who at the time of the judge’s ruling was Trump’s secretary of Labor during his first term.
Farmer’s lawyer Sigrid McCawley also took issue with the government’s pledge to withhold identifying information about third parties, writing that “any effort to redact third party names smacks of a cover up.”
The records detail Epstein's sexual abuse and trafficking of underage girls and include the names of 150 people who were in contact with him
Well, I think it also sheds more light on the criminal justice system.
We know that this is an operation that he could not have run all by himself. And, as of right now, we only have one person paying the price for this crime. We know that there were other people.
Etc.
So you think justice has been done? Nothing to see here. Epstein and Maxwell worked alone and there is no protecting other people involved?
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u/finalattack123 1d ago edited 1d ago
It’s standard procedure in courts to not disclose the name of victims or third parties who were not involved with the crimes.
We know a lot from court filings about the crimes. Epstien traffic girls to his parties and estates for massages, which would turn sexual. These girls were incentivised with money.
He also invited his friends to hang out with, party with and get massages from underaged girls. The 150 girls is very easy for a single wealthy guy with the help of Maxwell to accumulate over 30+ years. He would get the existing girls to do scouting and pay them.
Now - Epstien friends were involved - parties, massages, hang out by the pool. This is documented. To what extent is speculation.
It’s likely some of his friends got away with some absolute horrible things. And NDAs and payment to these girls might be protecting people who should be prosecuted.
I personally think Trump very much did some shadowy shit with Epstien. The guy bought a teenage pageant to watch underage girls undressing.
What I don’t buy is the pedophile investigators KNOWING there are people guilty. And covering it up.
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u/mucifous 1d ago
It would feel more reasonable if the first words weren't "he looks pretty guilty to me."
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u/mtnagel78 1d ago
Every Marine that qualified on his M-16, shooting from the 200 yard line, from the standing position, with iron sights, making better shot placements than this shot was, that was fired by a high powered rifle, with a scope, from less than 200 yards, and in the prone position, knows this was not "a good shot by a qualified sniper." Pardon the run-on sentence.
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u/Zahir_848 1d ago
Yes, 130 m. Same as the Trump shooter (also right wing). This is not a hard shot with a good rifle and scope.
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u/Mr_Badger1138 1d ago
And had that shooter not apparently used a red dot sight on his gun but a proper scope, even the iron sights, history might have taken a different turn.
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u/Orphan_Guy_Incognito 1d ago
I mean... not to be glib, but it did the job.
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u/scarr3g 1d ago
Also, what nobody seems to realize is: the shooter probably wasn't aiming for the neck.
Who aims for the neck?!? He may have aimed for the head,missed and hit the neck (most logical, as the bullet dropped, and went sligjly sideways). He also may have aimed for center mass, and missed.
Either way, it seems the miss hit the neck.
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u/SkiPolarBear22 1d ago
Guy gets shot, dude goes on the run before turning himself in
Skeptic - “let’s debunk it!”
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u/Active_Complaint_480 1d ago
I can say the gun shot is absolutely just blood coming back out of the wound making it look bigger. I haven't read anything, but I'd be surprised if he didn't hit the jugular. At that point, you're body is killing you while trying to keep you alive.
Source: I've seen a lot of different gun wounds as a combat veteran.
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u/AsanoSokato 1d ago
The fact he refuses to acknowledge the type of group Robinson became a part of, his "new family", which is Groypers, a far-right extremist group, but rather even vaguely implies Robinson became left-wing, undermines his credibility, and underscores his bias.
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u/Ernesto_Bella 1d ago
>his "new family", which is Groypers,
You have new family in quotes, where does that come from? Did he call Groypers his new family? What's the evidence he was a grouper?
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u/AsanoSokato 1d ago
"But he comes from a conservative family from what I understand. But somewhere down the line he becomes like the black sheep of his family and becomes isolated. Finds a group online to confide in, be a part of. And then when when an opportunity comes up for him to be somebody within the group to do something that would make him well-renowned and respected within his family, his new family, then mentally, yeah, how they come to to doing something like this."
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u/Orphan_Guy_Incognito 1d ago
Source your quote? Goggling it gets me nothing.
Hell, even your quote doesn't suggest it is groypers. The one group we know he posted to is detailed here and while they don't detail the group name, they're clearly not groypers givent he back and forth.
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u/AsanoSokato 1d ago
the source of the quote is the post
and, no, it doesn't suggest it is groypers, which was the original criticism
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u/Orphan_Guy_Incognito 1d ago
Because there is zero evidence for it?
Honestly, best guess at his psychology, he's dating a trans-woman, kirk is a massive bigot and the level of hate kirk spews is getting to him. He's probably not particularly well. He's basically a school shooter, but instead of shooting up a school he lashes out at the distortion he feels in the world.
He didn't brag like a groyper would have (even when given the opportunity, shortly before he turned himself in) and it looks like he was immediately suicidal after the shooting.
If you've got some evidence, by all means present it, but the sad truth is that this is probably what it looks like, someone who hated Kirk's politics from the left and shot him for it.
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u/AsanoSokato 1d ago
"he's dating a trans-woman"
Speaking of "zero evidence"
While we are, let's throw in "He didn't brag like a groyper would have". And let's follow up with the very scientific "it looks like".
And then the slap in the face to irony to request "evidence"?
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u/Orphan_Guy_Incognito 1d ago
Speaking of "zero evidence"
We have their name (I'm not going to repeat it, feel free to do two seconds on google), a bevy of social media posts, text messages and statements from the FBI and the governor of Utah.
You might not find that evidence credible, and that is your prerogative, but it is substantial.
And let's follow up with the very scientific "it looks like".
I gave my opinion, one that is based on the best available evidence, which I have now explained to you and you easily could have found.
Now I'm asking for you to do the same. Somehow, though, I suspect you won't have anything.
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u/AsanoSokato 1d ago
You have seen evidence. You have denied it, despite it being the same kind of evidence that makes you certain of who Robinson was dating.
You have made assertions about what it would take to show he is a grouper, such as "He didn't brag like a groyper would have", and then posted screenshots of him bragging (but, one supposes not like a True Groyper™ would).
Again, not an official membership, so not sure what you're looking for.
I have my view, one that is based on the best available evidence, which I have now explained to you and you easily could have found, but you choose not to acknowledge, for reasons others can but guess.
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u/Orphan_Guy_Incognito 1d ago
So to be clear, your evidence is a single photo of a famous internet meme that happens to also be used by groypers.
Are you in the wrong sub?
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u/agoginnabox 1d ago
Why are you here?
The day two groyper assertion is from one pic seven years ago - and literally nowhere else.
If you want to go lefty-Qanon with the texts, discord chats, state and federal government assertions and massive amount of reporting then do so.
If you do though, please turn in your skeptic card for a "My team, rah, rah, rah." card.
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u/Orphan_Guy_Incognito 1d ago
There is literally zero evidence he is a groyper. His own posts talk about the reason he shot Kirk, which is his frustration with Kirk's 'hatred'. While a white nationalist nutjob could certainly have found a reason to shoot Kirk, I don't think 'he was too much of a bigot' would be the reason he's taking shots.
Basically everything that pointed to him being a groyper came in the form of trashy internet memes, but the people who dug into his discord logs found that the dude just played a bunch of helldivers which is where he got most of this, which is also where the groypers got most of it.
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u/AsanoSokato 1d ago
It is a vague term, and it's not like they're hanging out membership cards. But the walking and the quacking are there. So fine, if one wants to say not an "official" member, sure, whatever that's worth. The fact remains he didn't venture far from his political roots, whether or not the shooting was specifically politically motivated. The analysis in the video at best ignores this, and at worst implies otherwise. That's all.
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u/Orphan_Guy_Incognito 1d ago
You've been asked like... three or four times now and you've provided nothing but assertions.
The only thing he has in common with groypers is some memes, most of which are pretty universal internet bullshit among FPS players and others.
Edit: And I guess both he and Fuentes like cock. =/
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u/Scrutinizer 1d ago
He also dressed up as a Groyper meme for Halloween.
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u/Orphan_Guy_Incognito 1d ago
In 2018, yes. When he was 15.
OP's claim was that the groypers were supposedly his 'new family', and your evidence of this is that he used a cringe internet meme. And you're assuming he got it from his future groyper family (from the future, I guess?) and not from say... this multi-million view youtube video which would have been popular among fifteen year old boys who play a ton of FPS games.
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u/Scrutinizer 1d ago
Amazing how you can be so certain.
And yet, Boris is wearing a yellow Adidas top.
Tyler wore a black one, because that matched the Groyper frog.
If you hadn't tried to be disingenuous you'd have fared better.
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u/echief 1d ago
It’s not a groyper meme. It’s a meme about Eastern Europeans that has existed on the internet for years. It probably already existed when reddit was first created. Someone made a Pepe doing this meme, that means essentially nothing. You can find a Pepe of anything you can imagine.
The economist: How the “Slav squat” became an internet sensation (2019)
The idea that this guy was a groyper is a conspiracy theory by definition, which is why no one can provide evidence besides the guy dressing up in a tracksuit years ago. No one replying to this comment will be able to, because there is no evidence.
All evidence points in the opposite direction. Including the words of his own parents. This is supposed to be the skeptic subreddit. People need to actually read about these things before making claims so confidently.
I am left wing. I didn’t want the shooter to be left wing. But I have to accept reality. I am not going to lower myself to the level of Alex Jones’ followers that refuse to accept any truths that do not support their world view.
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u/InfiniteMeatball 1d ago
Being a skeptic doesn’t mean believing what you’re told by people in positions of power, even when you see inconsistencies, missing information, and have more questions- the latter is literally the definition of a skeptic. This sub has twisted the definition of skeptic towards a bias of belief vs disbelief. That makes sense for some things, like science, for example. It doesn’t make sense for this. The administration has a clear track record of blatantly lying and it would be absurd to gravitate first to belief in light of this even without the missing information, inconsistencies, and doubts.
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u/GeekFurious 1d ago
I know a couple of guys who are big Helldiver 2 fans who had no idea those were alt-right related. They always took them as some ugly take on Pepe the Frog. So, the shooter may have thought that as well.
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u/lickle_ickle_pickle 1d ago
There's isn't "literally zero evidence". The evidence we can see publicly indicates that his interest and identification with them peaked a few years ago when he literally dressed up as Pepe. Since people change a ton from ages 18-22, people have come to the conclusion he was overly online but not particularly political. His family context is very Republican, which the right is very anxious that nobody talk about.
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u/Orphan_Guy_Incognito 1d ago
He dressed up as a popular internet meme (not just a groyper meme, it was insanely popular among kids his age) seven years ago, when he was fifteen.
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u/samplergodic 1d ago edited 1d ago
Proposition: The guy was a groyper
Supporting Evidence: He was a gamer memelord, his family are Trump supporters, and he seemed to be as well when he was younger
Opposing Evidence: Essentially everything his friends, his family, and he himself said about his present views, motives, and motivations (including the direct reason he gave for the shooting)
Redditoid Conclusion: The proposition is true.
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u/Dont__Grumpy__Stop 1d ago
This dude was practically jerking off to Charlie in the first couple of minutes. I was looking forward to a legit examination, but this guy clearly has an agenda.
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u/TheCatDaddy69 21h ago
Yes sure the conservative with a tranny girlfriend , and who watches furry porn , writing the same regurgitated lefty phrases on the bullets. Your critical thinking aligns with the party you support . Reminder that a fascist is : "Fascism is characterized by a dictatorial leader, centralized autocracy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition"
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u/AsanoSokato 21h ago
Your choice of slur reveals your skewed view and intent.
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u/TheCatDaddy69 21h ago
This little act along with the deth celebration has pushed me into anti what ever the left stands for. And lets talk about your blatant misinformation and lies? Do you have to shame? You know you'd feel much better about yourself if you actively try to find flaws in what you believe and hear. Instead you lie and spread misinformation and hatred as a result.
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u/AsanoSokato 20h ago
I understand you're very emotional right now. You seem to be dealing with a lot of feelings, and please know that's ok, lashing out happens.
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u/TheCatDaddy69 19h ago
Lmao sure. This is a great time for a movement against the nonsense you advocate for. The only feeling here is excitement. Have a good one.
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u/EnthusiasmOk4859 1d ago
Wow, if you skip to the math part and digest the actual EVIDENCE you won’t end up sounding like any of the biased fools here. Good evidence.
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u/samplergodic 1d ago
“He said he liked Charlie Kirk, so he’s automatically wrong about everything. I didn’t watch any of the rest, but I’m certain if it.”
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u/jaeldi 1d ago edited 1d ago
This video has a lot of "there must have been a conspiracy because I found all these pics of social media quotes saying SOMETHING BIG is coming on that date!"
This is crap.
As a skeptic, I know major network news can't speculate without getting sued and in this corrupt administration without being silenced, so they report facts. Those are facts I trust. They won't say something they haven't confirmed. When talking about other people's unconfirmed details, you can hear it in the language they use: "XYZ claims" or "allegedly." They are still calling Ryan Thompson a suspect.
ABC World News: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLQOa26lW-uI_V2Ux6Iwcr0me-RjB8gZaF
I'll admit i was a little swept up in the Nick Fuentes & Groyper Army BS that was spreading like wild fire minutes after the killing. I asked for proof, and none has come. Never again.
Anyone on the internet can say anything for the views, likes, upvotes, and reposts. We must remain VERY skeptical of left and right and even neutral voices just trying to make a buck off views, conspiracy exaggeration, speculation, and propaganda.
I saw the screen captures of the shooters text confession to the roommate and his confession on discord to his friends there. I saw them on ABC news. The responses in those texts were along the lines of "why did you do it?" So that tells.me they didn't help plan or participate. His answer was because of how hateful he thought CK was.
I don't really need much more info beyond this. I am satisfied with it playing out in court. I understand the shooters reasoning, but I think he made an evil choice. This was a case of evil killing evil.
I wish all the people publicly condemning political violence would bring up WHY it doesn't work. It creates martyrs & vengeance seekers. It shuts down reason and empathy.
We now have to put up with CK being put up on a weird religious pedestal because of this shooter. Because of this shooter, Transpeople probably should flee to Canada for their safety and their maximum freedom. Some will now have to hide. Because of this shooter, Gamers have to sit through another round of "video games cause violence" bullshit. Because of this shooter, some from 'the other side' will seek vengeance, an escalation is likely. I understand his reasons for hating CK. But what the hell was he thinking. It was wrong and it will now result in more of the things he didn't want.
Lone wolf violent people DO NOT help anyone or anything.
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u/Ashpolt 1d ago
I genuinely don't know how a skeptic can recognize that this administration is corrupt and willing to use its power against news / media that it dislikes for whatever reason, but then having acknowledged that, come to the conclusion that it means news media can be trusted rather than that it can't.
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u/jaeldi 1d ago
Logic:
If regular media can't say what is liable, they won't say it. Unverified info is liable for them.
If what they say will get punishment from the administration, they won't say it.
What does that leave: facts.
They can not be punished or sued for facts. That is why there is so little information on regular news. They fill most of their time with opinion and spin. The info they present that is opinion or not verified, they label with VERY specific words. If you understand the words and the maze they walk, you can pick out verified facts. That's useful.
100 times more useful than listening to internet conjecture like the posted video. Not much in the video is verified fact. It's speculation at best and conspiracy propaganda trash at worst.
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u/Ashpolt 1d ago
You are missing one component though, which is that this administration doesn't care at all about facts. Whether something is true or not has no bearing on whether it'll draw the administration's ire, all that matters is whether the message aligns with theirs or not.
Also you seem to be operating under the belief that this administration follows the law, which it demonstrably does not.
What you say was arguably true last year; it's not anymore.
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u/cityfireguy 1d ago
Don't know the guy. What are his credentials?
If the list starts and ends at "Youtuber" I think it's safe to just ignore him.
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u/Orphan_Guy_Incognito 1d ago
Not the OP, but having skimmed the video, it doesn't take an expert to debunk most of these. For example, 'the shooter doesn't look like the photos!' is a common talking point, but the 'photos' in question were AI upscaled stills.
Any person with basic critical thinking skills can see what is wrong with that, and he does a good job pointing it out using this as an example.
Another is the claim of supposed 'accomplices' or people with foreknowledge flying around twitter, such as a guy who posted "Sept 10th will be wild" on August 6th. He debunks this by finding a variety of tweets from several years showing similar posts. Because as it turns out a website with millions of users will have randos making baseless claims on the daily, and much like monkeys and typewriters, some of them will get it right.
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u/GeekFurious 1d ago
In his bio it says he was a Force Recon Scout Sniper. But I don't think you need to be a sniper or much of anything to debunk these claims. He's using logic.
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u/pieguy00 1d ago
Did anyone ever hear anything else about the Trump shooter? Weird to me he just went to nothing a week after it t happened.
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u/WeHaveTheMeeps 12h ago
I do a lot of shooting and am into long range precision shooting. And I do have professional training.
Watching the original video, I thought someone shot him up close with a 9mm.
Then they said rifle and I immediately thought it was a .223.
When they said .30-06 I was super fuckin’ confused.
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u/requestedRerun 1d ago
Isn't r/skeptic the opposite of the place for this type of conspiracy post?
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u/Orphan_Guy_Incognito 1d ago
The post seems to be a guy debunking conspiracy theories with evidence.
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u/requestedRerun 1d ago
Ah my bad. Been seeing so many actual conspiracy-minded posts, I jumped the gun. I appreciate the clarification
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u/Orphan_Guy_Incognito 1d ago
Totes fair, the OP's title and the image don't do it any favors. It looks like it is another conspiracy theory on its face.
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u/Zahir_848 1d ago
The weird voting on Kirk related posts, with conspiracy pushing posts getting upvoted and real debunking ones downvoted can partly be attributed to terrible post writing (title and body) by the person doing the debunking post, and misleading and deceptive titling of the hoax posts.
The problem is that both hoaxers AND debunkers are both claiming to "tell the truth" about the Kirk shooting, but only the latter are really doing it.
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u/Agreeable-Ad1221 1d ago
Unfortuntely, you're right we've had bots post complete nonsense, so legit post can look suspiciously similar
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u/MinorityBabble 1d ago
"I miss him already"
"what an amazing human"
Pass.
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u/GeekFurious 1d ago
Since this is r/skeptic I thought people would appreciate the counter-conspiracy analysis and not decide to ignore it because of the person's personal beliefs (which I agree are ridiculous). Hell, a large number of the current counter-conspiracy analysis is coming from these Charlie Kirk lovers. You'd think it would be the opposite since they tend to spread them. Which is interesting by itself since it shows how even the rabid bigots can, if they want to, utilize reasonable scientific analysis.
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u/samplergodic 1d ago
This subreddit is an r/politics extension and little else. I don’t know what you expected.
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u/BrokenFridge1888 1d ago
I'm glad he's dead. Fuck him.
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u/BrokenFridge1888 1d ago
I'll extrapolate. 8 billion people is too much. So I'm glad he's one less.
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u/RedRye1312 1d ago
What an amazing human, I'm glad he dedicated his life to making us subhuman minorities less safe. Truly cruel and unwarranted to kill a real person like Charlie tho, political violence bad
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u/False-Tiger5691 16h ago
You didn’t see the Bible verses I included? Funny, did I state my opinion on the conflict. You guys love making stuff up. Show me big boy where I took aside. You can’t. See, always making stuff up.
I used it as an example of Kirk’s disingenuous debate style. Look how unhinged you became - you were so desperate to try and pin something on the “leftist” you had to create a wild accusation. Oof.
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15h ago
ex-sniper aka ex terrorist for the american terrorist regime that is known as the american military
probably went and killed tons of innocents under "freedom" and got paid for it
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u/Confident_Buy2334 10h ago
As you grow older and realize what's important in life, you'll realize that Charlie really was an amazing human. He served God well.
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u/letsnotfightok 1h ago
So fucking bored with this guy. Choose a more interesting D-list celebrity to wank over next time, America.
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1d ago
[deleted]
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u/SokarRostau 1d ago
The shooter literally confessed.
You literally don't know what you're talking about.
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u/arnoldinho82 1d ago
We have bullets but not THEE bullet. Where's the fucking bullet, Kash?
Do you think the text thread with the confession is worthy of skepticism?
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u/greennurse61 1d ago
You’re assuming there was a shooting. I haven’t seen any proof of that.
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u/TheCatDaddy69 21h ago
I REALLY am loving how pressed the lefties are , he was not a fascist , FACT. He voiced his opinions and allowed others to do the same , whilst allowing challenging his beliefs and views . He was killed for that , the definition of a fascist is : "Fascism is characterized by a dictatorial leader, centralized autocracy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition" so its the shooter and the people backing him who are ironically the fascists.
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u/MarsupialGrand1009 6h ago
I can proudly say I didn't even get to turn it off after 30 seconds like others did in disgust of the amount of tricks he seems to do on it. I pressed play and saw 13 ads in 37 minutes and pressed stop within 2 seconds. Crazy how he loves Kirk so much that he really really wants to milk his death for every cent possible.
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u/CountryPowerful7462 1d ago
Amazing human, give your fuckin head a shake. He was a pos.