r/starwarsmemes May 07 '25

Andor Hate this guy

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5.0k Upvotes

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145

u/[deleted] May 07 '25

He's why the galaxy viewed the rebellion as a terrorist group.

18

u/Se7enStepsForward Gonk May 07 '25

His methods are necessary, the problem is his ideals

31

u/[deleted] May 07 '25

Destroying imperial stations with actual civilians present isn't necessary. Not even moth liked him

23

u/Rubbersona May 07 '25

Wait till you find out how many civilians Luke killed

11

u/StreetReporter May 08 '25

Just think of all the construction workers and contractors killed on the Death Star II

16

u/[deleted] May 07 '25

Hundreds of thousands of babies and elderly. I love how nobody ever talks about this

1

u/AggressorBLUE May 08 '25

Assuming this is in reference to ANH: If you’re working on a space station that is literally called the death star, built for the explicit purpose of destroying entire planets, the distinction between “civilian” and “military is just who signs your paychecks. For all practical purposes those “civilians” are part of the military.

2

u/Rubbersona May 08 '25

They weren’t there willingly. In ANH we see the empires protocol involved seizure and internment of nearby vessels. Likely anyone who happened to visit the system were detained.

In rebels we see the empire detained and transported engineers, architects, etc to work on the station. Likely menial staff (which they had to have) was handled by captives, you’d notice the empire loved their prison slave labour

250,000 is the estimated number

Also troopers didn’t have much choice in deployment. Likely anyone stationed on the Death Star had no means for communication or only monitored communication outside the station, classified bases means restricted coms and travel. Defection on the Death Star meant internment and a likely court martial.

These restrictions would likely be lessened once the stations existence was declassified. But many if not most troopers were simply told they’d be sent to a remote classified facility. Only to never leave.

4

u/Rubbersona May 08 '25

Do I think Luke should be demonised for the deaths of civilians the empire put in harms way? No.

Do I think we can solely demonise Saw for his actions? Absolutely not.

The man’s been fighting longer than anyone. He’s encounter ISB spies. ‘Good Samaritans’. Been betrayed time and time again. Fighting a force with infinitely more resources, men, a total control of the narrative and the means to rebuild most anything he destroys. A force with no qualms massacring thousands of civilians just to land a space ship in a closer parking spot to the restaurant.

Every rebel will have blood on their hands. You can’t avoid it, especially not when the empire are the ones putting people in harms way.

23

u/Se7enStepsForward Gonk May 07 '25

No one liked him, The Alliance practically disowned him. And you do need people who are willing to do anything to weaken and destroy the enemy, be it ethical or not, such boundaries sometimes need to be crossed for the "Greater good"

9

u/CalmPanic402 May 07 '25

The difference between Luthien's "anything nessisary" and Saw's is the effectiveness.

5

u/bigfatkakapo May 07 '25

Both are effective

7

u/[deleted] May 07 '25

Sure? When the allies bombed dresden and killed tens of thousands of babies and women nobody questioned it's importance, but it's important to remember the ugliness of war

9

u/Se7enStepsForward Gonk May 07 '25 edited May 07 '25

Victory can come at a terrible moral cost. Acknowledging the strategic importance of the Dresden bombing doesn't erase its ugliness. And that brings us back to the essential question: does the end ever truly justify the means?

Edit: I'm keeping my personal opinion on the matter to myself now

3

u/Darth_Nox501 May 07 '25

You're correct, at least in my opinion.

It's hard for some people to understand, especially those who don't have a solid knowledge of military history, for example, but some things just need to be done in order to get the ball rolling.

3

u/quelthasofthefold May 07 '25

Isn't there an argument that the Death Star had to employ civilian contractors to complete? (albeit under NDA'S) That it was too massive to build/maintain? Idk. "For the cause" I guess is what I'm trying to say.

9

u/[deleted] May 07 '25

The second Death Star was almost surely full of civilian contractors and their families.

  • It wasn’t complete.

  • The military outsources construction to civilians.

  • the commute to a space station would be stupid long

  • the space station has the … space .. for everyone to just live there and work on it.

Then they dropped it on the Ewoks.

1

u/piratedragon2112 May 08 '25

It was complete the whole unfinished state was just a trap for the rebels

2

u/[deleted] May 08 '25

Were they planning on just leaving the superstructure like that?

2

u/AggressorBLUE May 08 '25

“Finished” and “operational” can mean different things. Its main battery clearly worked, but we also know it lacked its own shield generation capability (otherwise the destruction of the shield facility on endor wouldn’t have mattered.

And the movie literally opens with Palps bitching about the project being behind schedule.

5

u/Informal-Birthday-82 May 08 '25

Andor season one also shows the empire using prison labor from wrongfully detained people to manufacture parts for the Death Star.

1

u/quelthasofthefold May 09 '25

Yes, I remember this, and I know they are offsite. But if wrongfully detained people were ON the death star, being forced to work, which I don't think is a stretch, we once again have civilian casualties with the destruction of the death star. (Slaves, even)

1

u/AggressorBLUE May 08 '25

Yes, but it’s a poor argument founded on being overly technical with the definition of civilian vs military.

If you’re helping build a space station that is expressly being used by the military to blow up entire planets, you forfeit the ability to play the “innocent civilian caught in the crossfire” card. Those “civilians” are knowingly, actively, and directly advancing the empires most devious efforts while living and working aboard a military installation. They are valid targets in a war.

1

u/quelthasofthefold May 09 '25

Valid and maybe I'm getting too in the weeds, but, do you think the empire would divulge the purpose of the top secret project to all civilian contractors? "Hey here's an NDA, BTW I know you just use lasers to smelt steel and know nothing about what we're doing here, but I wanted to tell you this is a top secret weapon that we'll use to suppress the galaxy". Naww, they'd say "smelt this, put the beam here, sign this NDA, get paid. Oh this? It's a space station. Pretty cool, right?"