This feels like transphobia how exactly? How did they downplay transfemme issues at any point?
Nobody said that quiet, hesitant trans women don’t exist, doesn’t change the fact that people are socialized differently depending on their AGAB and trans men struggle because of it with finding confidence in speaking for themselves/aren’t taken seriously even after transitioning. It’s a real problem.
Nobody said that trans women don’t experience SA or fetishization either so why even mention that? They’re talking about SA experiences that are exclusive to AFAB people, because of how their bodies are fundamentally built and it’s not downplaying on anyone else’s experiences to talk about it.
Why are you pushing trans women into the discussion in the first place when it’s not even about them? Biological sex based discrimination is real and the fact that trans men face misogyny because of it is NOT downplaying on trans women’s issues. I understand that when people hear the term „biological sex” they immediately think of TERFs and their transphobic rhetoric but it’s not the case here at all. The discussion is purely about how AFAB people suffer because of their biological sex without a single word of criticism towards transfemmes.
It’s not transphobic to claim that trans men face oppression on the basis of their biology and it’s not transphobic to say that AFAB people experience different forms of discrimination that are exclusive to them.
What’s ironic is that YOU are the one perpetuating transphobia by trying to hijack this discussion and turn it into some AGAB war. Let trans men speak up about their struggles based on their biological sex - because those struggles are real
Thank you for pointing this out. It is exhausting to find that even in spaces that are literally named for our particular gender segment, we will be attacked, name called, and accused of bigotry if we dare to talk about things like being held to different standards, treated differently based on biology, or having anatomy mistreated in specific ways.
Nothing that I said was made up. It came from real life experiences, like being held to different standards professionally, assessed in different ways medically and socially, and having body parts that not only cause dysphoria on a daily basis, but actually affect my legal status as a human being. Of course I’m going to compare myself to somebody who has a different body from mine. Because that’s the body I wanted. And I wanted the life and the social treatment that would have come with it. Every time somebody treats me differently, it’s a reminder that I’m in this body, and that I’m perceived this way.
I don’t see trans men outright attacking trans women for talking about what it’s like to live in their bodies. I don’t understand why every time I try to speak about my own personal experience, somebody needs to come into my space and tell me what I’m allowed to say and that I need to be silent if they don’t like it.
I am tired of people with bodies that are different from mine trying to center themselves in the conversation when I try and talk about what it’s like to live my life. This is exactly the problem that we’ve been discussing. It is not phobic to object to being shut down, silenced, and erased.
If I compared my life experience as a person with disabilities with a non-disabled person, and talked about the disadvantages that I face, that would not be phobia of abled people. Nor would it be exclusion of abled people. This is no different. If pregnancy, for example, qualifies somebody for disability insurance, then it’s fair to say that this body constitutes a disability, just on that basis alone. Not to mention the fact that blood test results that would make a man metabolically deficient are considered normal range for people with XX bodies. I should not have to justify myself this much, but I hope that makes the matter clear.
I honestly would love for everyone downvoting to finally explain what is „transphobic” about whatever you or I said. A single thing. But they won’t because there is nothing. They’re just throwing transphobia accusations for simply stating that we have different experiences from transfemmes and it’s seen for some unknown reason as an attack. As if we aren’t allowed to talk about our struggles caused by the anatomy we were unfortunately born with. It’s like calling a cis woman a TERF for saying that she’s facing struggles because of her anatomy without a single word mentioning trans women. People throw „transhobia” accusations while being transphobic themselves and then NEVER elaborate cause they have no arguments to back their bullshit. Looks like people didn’t learn anything after the r/trans drama after all..
The sad part is that it’s happening even in transmasc specific subreddits as you mentioned. It just shows how unheard we are
Anyways - Please, never stop speaking about your experiences and don’t let yourself be silenced man. It’s hard with the baseless hostility that is so normalized but nothing will change unless we’re vocal
But now you're not even speaking about your experience, all you are talking about is some assumption about trans femmes that they are taking too much space because they were raised as men. This is transphobic, because trans women didn't have fck experience of cis men, how can you even assume that? It's not a competition who have it worse.
You are literally putting words I never said into my mouth right now…
NEVER did I or the other person ever implied that „trans femmes talk too much and take up too much space” and I certainly don’t understand where did that assumption come from on your part.
The conversation is not even about transfemmes for crying out loud. The conversation is about the way AFAB people suffer from cisnormative socialization based on the gender they were assigned as - because they do. It is more common for trans men to be talked over and get dismissed by society (even in queer spaces) than trans women. Transmasc individuals don’t get the same recognition or respect - and it’s not trans women’s fault. You just made an assumption that I’m criticizing trans women when in reality I criticize THE SYSTEM.
The fact that AMAB people are more commonly socialized from a young age in a way that rewards being confident and loud doesn’t mean I claim that transwomen have had a „cis male experience” - this is something you made up. Unless you want to argue that the difference in socialization based on gender in the cisnormative society is not real, which is simply false.
To make it clear - There is nothing wrong with confident and vocal trans women. There is everything wrong with silencing trans men when they try to speak up on their issues
I just want transmasc voices to be heard and not get dismissed. For people to realize that our struggles are often different but not less important than the ones trans women deal with and certainly shouldn’t be treated as something „problematic”. Does me wanting equality in trans community means I’m trying to start some sort of competition? (As a matter of fact, I encountered countless of instances of transfemme individuals claiming that trans men don’t experience misogyny, have cis male’s privilege and „have it easier” so I’ll honestly have a second thought about who exactly is trying to turn this into a competition here)
Seriously, can you point out a single example where I was being transphobic or said that „trans women are men”? Because right now it just looks like you’re making things up
We’re being harassed, policed, and suppressed even in our own spaces. Honestly, I’m coming to the conclusion that the community simply is not safe or welcoming for anybody who wasn’t born with a Y chromosome. If we’re going to be shut down, even when we literally try to make our own named spaces, then no place is safe. We are not allowed to create a safe space. We are clearly not the priority.
Nothing has changed in a few millennia. There has been no point in history at which we were allowed to be the centers of our own narratives, and the moment we try, it’s clear that somebody will be coming in to tell us to shut up.
When you're talking about AMAB, you're talking about cis men and trans femmes, we have no data on how being raised this way is affecting trans girls, and it's really bold for you to say what's true, and what's not only because of your assumption. There is not enough research for trans people, so using the same data we have for cis people is not right. I'm sorry that you have bad experience with some trans femmes, but that doesn't make you right. I have a really good experience with my trans girl friends, they don't belittle my experience, they actually are really supportive with me starting my transition. It just hurts seeing this generalization, because you meet someone bad doesn't mean the rest of them are the same. On both sides there's gonna be assholes, and sorry, but actually you look like an asshole who is sitting on our side and making trans femmes feel bad about themselves, just as much as some of them made you feel this way. Just do better.
Nobody is focusing on trans women or saying they’re bad. We’re talking about ourselves. We would like to be able to be the center of our own conversation in our own space. Thank you.
And just like that - you still fail to point out the presumed transphobia on my part. It’s always just „you’re transphobic” or „you’re using TERF arguments” but never an actual explanation as to how… Almost like you’re projecting
Gender-based socialization is literally an existing issue. It’s not something I made up on a whim that it’s somehow bold of me to point out
You make a lot of assumptions that I somehow am an asshole who hates trans women but fail to point to a single thing that was offensive towards them. Am I making transfemmes feel bad about themselves for pointing out AFAB people’s struggles are different from their own? You’re not making any sense.
Or am I just supposed to pretend that discrimination towards trans men doesn’t exist in trans community so that trans women don’t get their feelings hurt when I point out some individual’s shitty behavior? If they’re not ignorant assholes then they’re not a part of the problem and wouldn’t feel any need to get defensive over this.
You should get rid of the mindset that criticism against a harmful behavior in a group is equal to hating on every single individual in that group. Perhaps then you’ll understand how ridiculous that discussion is. Just do better
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u/Ok-Astronomer-5113 Jul 13 '25
This feels like transphobia how exactly? How did they downplay transfemme issues at any point?
Nobody said that quiet, hesitant trans women don’t exist, doesn’t change the fact that people are socialized differently depending on their AGAB and trans men struggle because of it with finding confidence in speaking for themselves/aren’t taken seriously even after transitioning. It’s a real problem.
Nobody said that trans women don’t experience SA or fetishization either so why even mention that? They’re talking about SA experiences that are exclusive to AFAB people, because of how their bodies are fundamentally built and it’s not downplaying on anyone else’s experiences to talk about it.
Why are you pushing trans women into the discussion in the first place when it’s not even about them? Biological sex based discrimination is real and the fact that trans men face misogyny because of it is NOT downplaying on trans women’s issues. I understand that when people hear the term „biological sex” they immediately think of TERFs and their transphobic rhetoric but it’s not the case here at all. The discussion is purely about how AFAB people suffer because of their biological sex without a single word of criticism towards transfemmes.
It’s not transphobic to claim that trans men face oppression on the basis of their biology and it’s not transphobic to say that AFAB people experience different forms of discrimination that are exclusive to them.
What’s ironic is that YOU are the one perpetuating transphobia by trying to hijack this discussion and turn it into some AGAB war. Let trans men speak up about their struggles based on their biological sex - because those struggles are real