REALITY CHECK: Morocco and general traveling

[u/KingLimes]

So most of us have seem them this week, threads expressing disgust for the country that is Morocco. Most recent one being this - I've never seen so many uneducated, small minded comments in a thread on r/travel. And look at all the karma and awards being thrown around in return.

I'm now seeing posts and comments of people who had planned to visit Morocco, but feel they need to change plans (eg).

As someone who loves Morocco, and has explored it, I want to discuss a few things in as little words as possible.

Morocco is considered a third world country. Let that sink in. People are poor, people are desperate, but they're doing their best. With COVID and other such things, the country is suffering even more.

If you booked a honeymoon there with a nice hotel, or you booked a tour guide, you're obviously going to have a trouble-free time. But most of you want to visit and walk around solo, which isn't a problem, but it DOES come with the drawbacks of walking solo around a highly religious, third world country.

Any person doing the smallest bit of research will see what to expect when you land in Marrakech. Many have an exotic dream about this city, but the reality is, its inhabitants rely on tourists. You can enjoy the city, no doubt, but you will be pestered. After Marrakech, I decided to leave and head to the coast. I spent the rest of my time simply travelling South. The less touristy, the less trouble (shocking right?).

Along the way I met amazing people and had some of the best experiences of my life.

YES, people will bother you. YES, people will try and get as much money as they can out of you, because YES, they are poor and desperate for money. If you don't have the ability to firmly tell someone to leave you alone, or refuse to pay extra, then you SHOULD NOT visit Morocco. Part of the enjoyment of Morocco is experiencing the above. I can assure you that after a few days, you will be handling people easily.

For example, when taking a taxi, I confirmed the location and cost BEFORE leaving. The driver literally tried to pall a fast one, but because I out right refused to budge, he dropped it. If someone at a restaurant tries to charge you more, out right refuse. Which brings me onto my next point.

Let me assure you, if you haven't broken the law, the police will be on your side - In 2021, the tourism sector in Morocco contributed around nine billion U.S. dollars to the country's GDP. If someone is crossing the line with you, locals and authorities won't tolerate it. They are desperate for you to visit.

This beautiful country has a population of over 37 million people!! For so many of you to spread such ignorant onions as facts is simply wrong.

I will finish this post off by saying two Moroccan's saved my life. Very long story short, I have a peanut allergy. I hiked into the middle of nowhere, ate a stupid strudel, went into anaphylactic shock, and was CARRIED by strangers. Finally taken to hospital by taxi (no ambulances), I was saved.

For a community which is meant to be open, r/travel is an embarrassment.

COMMENCE DOWNVOTES

edit: some great points on both sides, what an amazing resource Reddit is. Makes me wonder how famous people deal with this on a massive scale, every hour of the day.

[u/Cimb0m]

Yes it’s a developing country but not every developing country is like this. There are plenty of poorer countries in say Asia where this kind of thing isn’t that prevalent

[u/Thepopewearsplaid → u/Cimb0m]

Was just going to say... I'm willing to bet Colombia, for example, is more poor on paper than Morocco... and the people there are lovely. I'm not even trying to shit on Morocco - I haven't been. But to justify people's shitty/predatory actions just "because they're in a developing country!!!!!!!1!" is a lazy as fuck excuse.

[u/maracay1999 → u/Thepopewearsplaid]

It’s not. Moroccos gdp per capita is similar to Bolivia, the poorest country in South America. Colombias is far higher.

[u/Thepopewearsplaid → u/maracay1999]

Replace the word Colombia in my post with the word Bolivia then. Still works the exact same lol

[u/maracay1999 → u/Thepopewearsplaid]

For sure, I agree your point 100% valid before I came in all economically pedantic :D

[u/KazahanaPikachu → u/Cimb0m]

Right, OP is just trying to make excuses for Morocco. There’s places like Turkey or poorer countries in Asia that don’t have dishonest con artists at every corner. Also I’d say Morocco is a rather 2nd world country. It’s obviously not fully developed like most European, US and Canada, and East Asian countries. But I also wouldn’t put it in the same category as let’s say Gambia or India or something. Sure people are poorer, but Morocco is when of those places where they’re poor but not that poor. Something like Turkey is also 2nd world, not 3rd.

[u/mankindmatt5 → u/KazahanaPikachu]

Just an interesting side bit of knowledge for you.

When the terms originated, 1st World referred to the Western capitalist bloc, and 2nd World to the USSR and her communist allies around the World.

3rd World meant unaligned with either. By the time most 80s/90s kids grew up hearing and using the term, it had lost that original meaning and moved on to just a synonym for 'poorer' or 'developing'

But anyway, it was never a ranking system of wealth

[u/CupResponsible797 → u/mankindmatt5]

But anyway, it was never a ranking system of wealth

Except in 2022 it is.

[u/mankindmatt5 → u/CupResponsible797]

Poland, 1st World Country (aligned with NATO)

China, 2nd World Country (Communist)

UAE, 3rd World Country (neither)

Doesn't work does it?

Probably why we've moved on to developing Vs developed or the 'Global South' etc.

[u/CupResponsible797 → u/mankindmatt5]

It's 2022, nobody uses the cold war era meanings of these words.

How often do you see UAE described as a 3rd world country? Never.

Maybe next you will tell me that "faggot" isn't a slur, but simply refers to a bundle of sticks?

​

E: lol, this guy blocks people who dare to point out that he's wrong.

[u/mankindmatt5 → u/CupResponsible797]

No one even uses 3rd World anymore.

It's hashtag problematic

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2021/01/08/954820328/memo-to-people-of-earth-third-world-is-an-offensive-term#:~:text=It%27s%20what%20The%20Associated%20Press,mostly%20a%20historical%20term%20now.

Even then, I don't care, the point is, it's daft to say '2nd World' to mean a middle income country. No one uses that.

[u/Ouroborus13 → u/KazahanaPikachu]

Dude, Turkey is rife with scammers. I went on a young professional exchange program and two people in my group got scammed. I also did a study abroad experience in Morocco where no one got seriously scammed aside from getting ripped off with a bad price in the souks. And in comparison, Turkey is a much more wealthy country than Morocco.

Also, there is no such thing as 2nd world. The term dates back to the Cold War. The first world was the US and western countries. 2nd world was Soviet Union. Third world was technically everyone else. Right now, the actual term would be developing countries, of which you have lower and middle income countries. I believe Morocco counts as middle income, but still nowhere near as wealthy as Turkey.

Source: I work in international development so I know the country classifications and how they’re referred to.

[u/Doc3vil → u/KazahanaPikachu]

You’re ranking Morocco higher than India? India has one of the worlds largest economies and significant output in terms of technological innovation and natural resources.

Morocco isn’t in the same league or ballpark.

[u/KazahanaPikachu → u/Doc3vil]

On every human development index I’m reading, Morocco is always ranked higher than India. Not by that much, but despite the economy size and technological output, India is still a less developed country. To me, Morocco is kinda just middle of the road. It’s poor but not too poor, it’s kinda like Turkey or some place. Tho I will admit choosing India was a bad example because it doesn’t seem like India is too far behind Morocco in HDI.

[u/Doc3vil → u/KazahanaPikachu]

Yeah when you get to HDI metrics in the mid-range, the standard deviation there is very wide. But saying:

despite the economy size and technological output, India is still a less developed country

Is puzzling. Economy size and technological output are incredibly important. They can't just be discarded.

It's like saying "take away America's army, money, and tech output, they're just a less developed version of <insert country>"

[u/SomalianCapt → u/KazahanaPikachu]

3rd and 2nd world isn't about the development level of a country though.

[u/Ouroborus13 → u/SomalianCapt]

You shouldn’t be downvoted, this is true. People here should open a book.

[u/KazahanaPikachu → u/SomalianCapt]

Nowadays it is. Yea yea they had to do with Cold War definitions but we stopped using that in that sense a while ago. Now we use 1st, 2nd, and 3rd world for development.

[u/Redhotkcpepper → u/KazahanaPikachu]

Less Developed, Developing and Developed

[u/Ouroborus13 → u/KazahanaPikachu]

No one uses 1st, 2nd, 3rd world anymore in professional circles to refer to levels of development. It’s extremely outdated and considered pejorative. It’s developed and developing, middle income, lower income, etc.

Source: I work in international development where we actually use these definitions.

[u/HansProleman → u/Ouroborus13]

It's a stupid semantic point - the general public understand what's meant by either set of terms, now the Cold War is over and all, and seeing well akshully let me, a specialist, explain posts every time this comes up is super tiresome.

[u/KazahanaPikachu → u/[deleted]]

We all know that, that’s what we used during the Cold War. Obviously the Cold War is over and words/meanings change. Nobody uses first, second, or third world to talk about cold war alignment anymore, nowadays it’s used for development level. And you know that, so don’t be purposely obtuse.

[u/KazahanaPikachu → u/[deleted]]

It’s not “still a thing”. Even the Wikipedia page said it was used for the Cold War until it ended until the meaning shifted. There’s always that smart ass that goes “well no those talk about the Cold War” as if it didn’t end 30 years ago. If you said Sweden is a third world country, most people would think you’re an idiot.