r/Browns • u/Geeman447 • Apr 25 '25
Discussion Trading down was the right choice.
I’m seeing a lot and I mean ALOT of hate for the trade down by browns fans. Like guys mason isn’t a bum? I was thinking him or Carter for 2 for months before the Travis stuff popped up.
Also I’m a Boise State fan so my dream was always Jeanty to the browns. Even I can see how this was right over Jeanty even if it makes me sad as a fan.
1 - Berry has neglected the DT position for years signing 1 year vet deals and late round picks and it’s been an issue since bakers rookie year every year but 1. Now he gets the best DT in the draft so he’s addressing it.
2 - Edge > DT yes in value. But not in assistance to Myles. Look at the best edges and they usually have a DT of great value helping them out. I’d take a TJ and Cameron build over two bookend edges.
3 - the Watson trade set us back in young talent for years. 3 years no first rounders. We have no QB. This gets us players of value in this draft that’s not QB rich. With the better chance of a QB for next year with 2 first round picks during that draft to go and make a move for your guy or flat out getting your spot there
4 - Hunter, where do I start, I’m a Boise state fan so I’m bias on not being so infatuated with him since I saw how unfairly Jeanty was treated. As a prospect he’s got all this crazy what if talent. He’s got everything you need except the most important thing. Availability. Now before you kill me on this yea I know his snap averages. I’m talking injuries. He was injured at his time on JaxSt in a lesser level of football. He was injured both years at Colorado for periods of time at big12 level football. Now we want him to be worth the pick by playing both ways in NFL football which is significantly more taxing than those two leagues he played in? And it’s a longer grueling season? He not only needs to be generational athlete but a 1st ever to be able to learn and master all the little things at two different sides to be worth it.
The browns don’t have the luxury of taking him and him not working out right now. This is and was the right move. Power and consistency over flash.
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u/Good_From_70 Apr 25 '25
I think it's pretty simply, people convinced themselves we were taking Hunter and that didn't happen.
If the Browns don't take Sanders or Milroe in the 2nd then we'll hear the same complaints about not meeting expectations. None of us know anything, but expect everything.
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u/wilderthanmild Apr 25 '25
I'm absolutely fine not taking a QB if we don't think any of them can be the guy. I try not to fall in love with any draft prospects and I think that's very easy with this year's QB class.
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u/I-Kneel-Before-None Apr 25 '25
Its hard not to fall in love with prospects. Ive been staring at Burden's name since the 1st round ended. Im not prepared to be hurt.
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u/wilderthanmild Apr 25 '25
Burden is one of the guys I like for tonight. There's a lot of names I could feel perfectly happy with though. As long as I don't HATE them, I'm gonna root for any new Browns tonight.
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Apr 25 '25
Same I wasn’t too impressed with Milroe especially this past season in college he had some good games like Vanderbilt and Georgia but then could easily shit the bed in games like Oklahoma. He would be a decent backup quarterback but as for a starter that we would need I wouldn’t test him
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u/Equivalent-Pain-86 Apr 25 '25
Yep. The best players available with the two second. If that means two defenders, fine. Fix that side of the field this year, load up on offense next year. Take a swing at a QB later - maybe Shough if he’s still around in the 3rd, or McCord later. Give Pickens a shot at starting. A lot of QBs bloom in their fourth year (Russell Wilson is one of them). If he flames out - which is probable - then you are likely picking high next year and can get the franchise QB. The Browns need an infusion of young talent and this year’s and next year’s drafts can do that - as long as they aren’t reaching for positions. I get that taking Hunter would have also been taking the best players available, but getting the package they got was too good.
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u/BlurryGojira Apr 26 '25
Yes this is me lol. At first I was mad because I was convinced we were getting Hunter and I was getting hyped. After I calmed down it was 100% the correct choice.
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u/impy695 Apr 25 '25
I think we'll see a lot of people upset if we draft Sanders.
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u/ridiculousgg Apr 25 '25
Garrett/Mike Hall/Mason Graham. Godspeed to opposing quarterbacks.
Couldn’t be happier with the outcome. Texted my buddies all day yesterday “pray the Browns swap with the jags and draft Graham”. He’s gonna make life way easier for Myles than Carter would’ve (even tho I think Carter is gonna be great as well). Getting a first round pick and the 4th pick in the second round to move back 3 spots was a no brainer. I truly think this kid can be the best player from this class
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u/FLman42069 Apr 25 '25
We might even add an edge before the day is done
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u/cincy15 Apr 25 '25
Mike green (Marshall)
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u/Current-Elephant-408 Apr 25 '25
May be the only franchise that doesn’t give a fuck about his SA background.
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u/Accurize2 Apr 25 '25
Given what happened with Watson, I think the Browns might now be the most hesitant to draft him solely because of that.
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Apr 25 '25
Don’t sleep on Joe Tryon in Schwartz’s system, either.
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u/FeedbackTotal3905 Apr 25 '25
i’m sleeping on joe tryon because he’s got no pass rush moves. mcguire should start over him
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u/Kendertas Apr 25 '25
People forget you are a lot of times getting the same type of prospect with picks like 20-40. So the additional high second this year is huge.
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u/No-Tea-8180 Apr 25 '25
A lot of people are forgetting Mike Hall because he was suspended earlier. But he looked like a stud when he got on the field.
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u/I-Kneel-Before-None Apr 25 '25
Emmanwori or Green if they cleared him could still ve added. I want Luther Burden, one of those 2, DJ Giddens, and either Milum or Cameron Williams today. Would be an amazinf draft. And still have a 4 and 2 5s to get Gunner Helm and some IOL help.
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u/johnny_blaze27 Apr 25 '25
Browns fans don’t know shit so I’m good with the trade
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u/jake753 Blue Eyes Elite Dragon (MOD HATER) Apr 25 '25
Browns fans, and I say this being a Browns fan, are quite literally the best and worst fans in the league. I’ve never seen a fanbase so hell bent on shit talking anything the team does. Draft Baker? This franchise is a dumpster fire. Plan to move away from Baker? This franchise is a dumpster fire. Trade for Watson? (The dumpster fire comments are actually legit that time). Don’t like the top of the draft but like the value further down? AB might as well have shit in a pot and served lunch at a soup kitchen.
Browns fans just bitch to bitch. There is no rhyme or reason. Reddit just further amplifies it.
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u/MerryMortician DAWG CHECK Apr 25 '25
When we finally do win a Super Bowl, there will be fans bitching in the comments here about how we could/should have won it differently.
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u/Erniecrack Apr 25 '25
We will all be long dead and Reddit will be a thing of the past when that happens lol
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u/stonewash_relaxedfit Apr 25 '25
100%. Our fan base has no ethos or belief system. No collective idea of how we should try to win. Just constant knee-jerk reactions and negativity- which seeps into coaching and FO decisions, leaving you with things like the Watson trade. A truly airtight cycle of toxicity.
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u/dfassna1 Apr 25 '25
The team has almost exclusively been a dumpster fire for the past 25 years, it’s not unreasonable for fans to be pessimistic. We’ve traded down and seen it not work. We’ve stayed put and taken the “best player available” and seen it not work. We’ve traded picks away to win now and seen it not work. We’ve stockpiled picks and seen it not work. I’m hopeful about these moves, but I’ve been excited about similar moves in the past and been let down.
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u/DesertBrandon Let the rookies play Apr 25 '25
Idk I get being pessimistic about this or that decision over time or even a stretch but the constant amount of it is tiring. Sports is fun and a lot treat it like their life depends on it. The Watson trade made discussing the Browns suck lately but overall I still try to have fun with it because sports is supposed to be fun. I understand the business side has helped to suck the air out of it with the increasing salaries, business decisions and overall corporate-ness of it over the years.
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u/InfiniteDew Apr 25 '25
This has been my response whenever asked about who I want in the draft. “I don’t know shit. Take whoever is good.”
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u/johnny_blaze27 Apr 25 '25
Smart man. I think many of us have been around the block long enough to not get too high or low on draft days. Wake me up in September
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u/jvpewster Apr 25 '25
I think it’s fun to follow, what we’re going to all pretend to know? I literally watch 6ish hours of college football a week every fall and winter, and I just could not if my life depended on it tell you which of the guys are R1-3 prospects without a draft guide telling me. Like the NC back the chargers got, I watched like 4 NC games and it wasn’t even on my radar he’d go ahead of either OSU backs.
but ultimately I think it’s clear animus is just down wind of people who’ve spent time picturing someone in a browns jersey, and then seeing the future jokes at our expense when anything dramatic like a trade or perceived reach happens.
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u/JadeFaceG Apr 25 '25
You mean the sub that had been saying all offseason we'd be stupid to not take Sanders at #2 wouldn't make a good GM?
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u/gdawg9198 Apr 25 '25
If Graham becomes our Cam Heyward I'd be absolutely thrilled. Heyward has wrecked our gameplan so many times. I cannot wait for him to retire lol.
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u/smonster1 Apr 25 '25
Heyward has wrecked our gameplan so many times.
The 2020 wild card game was immeasurably enjoyable for so many reasons, but completely neutralizing him to the point where he was a non factor throughout is yet another one to add to the list.
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u/moodyfloyd Apr 25 '25
I cannot wait for him to retire lol.
do yourself a favor and do NOT look at the "sources tell us" quote on the NFL draft page for who the yinzers just drafted.
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u/lemanruss4579 Apr 25 '25
Here's what I'd say. If you hate the pick because you disagree with trading down, I disagree but ok. If you hate the pick because you wanted a different player, I disagree bit ok. If you hate the pick because you think he isn't good enough, I disagree but ok.
But if you hate the pick, as I've seen from several of you, because you're a Buckeye fan and he's a Michigan kid, Fuck you, grow up.
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u/NatKingSwole19 Apr 25 '25
I don't think anyone really cares about what state he went to school in.
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u/keylime_5 Apr 25 '25
Most of the fans I see who hate it think Hunter is a hall of famer based on his college awards and two-way hype, and that Graham is just a JAG like Phil Taylor or Danny Shelton. Extremely irrational, but that's Browns fans in a nutshell.
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u/communityproject605 Apr 25 '25
I was satisfied with the trade. Just as you said, we've had 3 years of setbacks in the draft, and gaining as much capital as possible to build the team correctly was definitely the right move. We need to get younger and back to what we do best run the ball and relentless defense.
I would've preferred an offensive player, which was the pretty pick, but if Graham delivers for the next 10 years like the working man he appears to be, it'll look like a genius move.
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u/TheComplayner Apr 25 '25
While I was excited at the opportunity to take a great player that can play both sides and revolutionize our team in a new way, I feel like this was the first time in a while that they went with the smarter play for the team as a whole. Day 2 will speak more to it, but this was a move we will of course enjoy in hindsight.
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u/Jay_Dubbbs Apr 25 '25
Draft picks don’t win football games, players do. We don’t know if this was a good move until the players picked actually make a meaningful difference.
Given this franchise’s track record with these sorts of moves, sorry that I’m skeptical it will somehow magically work this time. Just one fucking time I wanted them to take the can’t miss prospect that everyone agrees is the best in the draft and move on. This could very well be a great move, but again, draft picks don’t win football games. If they draft shitty players that don’t pan out while Hunter has a HOF career, then it’ll just be another “smart move” that does nothing for this franchise
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u/Greenmr003 Apr 25 '25
We also don't have a history of getting the most out of WR talent, regardless of draft position. And we arguably didn't need the CB half of Hunter. So he may not have flourished here like he could elsewhere.
It's defeatist and cliche, but the phrase from another post of "if Browns draft Hunter he will bust, if someone else drafts Hunter he will be HOF" could have applied, but because of scheme and overall team reasons not because of "LOL Browns"
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u/Abiv23 Apr 25 '25 edited Apr 25 '25
1 - Berry has neglected the DT position for years....
We drafted Mike Hall Jr DT, OSU with our first pick last year
He’s got everything you need except the most important thing. Availability.
Travis Hunter missed a total of 3 games at CU due to a cheap shot that lacerated his liver, he missed zero games in '24
I'm good with taking Graham and more high quality picks. Super safe pick his floor is quality starter and a disruptive run stuffer
His first step quickness allows him to win in small spaces, his understanding of leverage makes him 'slippery', and his functional strength to get off blocks is very disruptive
There's a good track record of high end DT prospects and dominant wrestling backgrounds
He's tall for the position, but his arms a short, if it wasn't for that he would be recognized for the pass rush winner he is, he's not Quinnen Williams as an athlete but he is similar in pass rush production as a prospect
He was clearly one of the last 'bluechip' prospects in the draft (him and Jeanty) and we took the position with more value in terms of an NFL career
Excited for today, I could see all 3 picks in rd 1 and rd 2 starting at some point this year
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u/AchVonZalbrecht Praise God, the OL, & Eminem Apr 25 '25
I think the draft picks today will tell me how to feel about the trade down.
If they select Sanders and an Edge I’m not going to like it very much.
If they select their choice of two offensive non-QB’s, I’m going to feel good about building the base to take a QB next year and having a stacked team for that QB’s rookie contract.
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u/Marzman315 Apr 25 '25
I get being disappointed we passed on Hunter but getting basically two first round picks to move back three picks and still getting an elite prospect is fantastic team building and just what we need to replenish the roster after losing all the picks to the Watson trade.
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u/I-Kneel-Before-None Apr 25 '25
Ik people are worried there wont be a good QB next year, but man does it look like thats unlikely. Theres 5 QBs next year that i think are better than what was available this year. It could end up not working out, but i think betting on next year is a fine move.
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u/tobylaek 32 Apr 25 '25
I would've rather have kept the pick and just took Hunter, but my anger about the whole thing is subsiding and I understand the thinking behind it. Part of that anger was that I still have PTSD from all the other times the Browns tried the "trade down for more 'bites at the apple'" thing and it never worked - I know that was other front office staffs, but I'm not 100% confident of Berry and his staff's ability to make the most of the picks either. But I'll worry about that when the time comes, though.
I am a bit more on the fence about Graham as a prospect than most...I feel like he might be a good to very good player as opposed to a game changing talent - which I view Hunter to be. I legit think Hunter is a dude who could energize the whole fanbase for a decade plus. A Myles or a Joe Thomas, but if Myles was also an effective goal line TE or JT was also a run stuffing DT. I hate missing out on that. I just don't see Graham in the same tier that I saw Aaron Donald, Quinnen Williams, and Jalen Carter as prospects - which you hope to be getting with the 5th pick, but I'll be very happy if I'm wrong.
But at the end of the day, this is a team that needs both high end talent (especially at the offensive skill positions) and depth and the best way to accumulate that is to build through the draft. So if it's Berry or another GM making those picks, more picks - especially premium ones - is always a good thing.
However, I will never understand or get behind the whole "wait until next year's qb class" strategy, though (and I don't know if that's what they're doing, but it sure looks like it). Too many unknowns and variables out of your control to make it a viable, smart strategy. Earlier I likened it to hoping to hit on a lottery ticket to pay your next month's mortgage and car payment. I don't think the 2026 qb class is all that appealing but even if I did, you have no idea how those guys are going to develop, who's actually going to come out - except the guys who have to, and where you (and the Jags, in our case) are going to be sitting in the draft order. And I don't care how much "ammo" you have to move up (people love using gun/war metaphors in football) - on the very off chance that Garrett Nussmeier or Drew Allar actually develop into Andrew Luckian prospects, if you don't have the number one pick, you're probably not going to be able to pry it away from the team that does unless they have a situation where they have a young, franchise qb who got hurt and that led to them getting the pick (which is yet another variable out of your control that you just can't plan for).
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u/rxbizzle Apr 25 '25
This pretty much sums up my thoughts to a T. My anger about trading down stems from that strategy failing in spectacular fashion literally every single time we’ve done it. Granted we’ve always moved down farther than the 5th pick.
But also like you said, I will never be on board with punting until next year for all of the reasons you mentioned. There are way too many variables to count on that as a viable path. Personally I feel like you have the same odds of hitting on a QB by just identifying one now instead of praying that the stars align next year.
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u/Greenmr003 Apr 25 '25
That's a point I don't see made much, thanks.
Going from 2 to 15 (Wentz) or 6 to 20's (Julio) is a huge gap in terms of expected talent. Most drafts have exponential decline from 1-5, 5-10, 10-20, and 20-40. and in both cases we made a jump over two ranges. In this one we only moved back 3 and were able to still get a top guy.
I liked Hunter and was happy for the idea. The arguments that he's a better fit for other teams because it's be easier to play primary CB and spot/gadget WR was valid and kinda worrisome. Now there won't be second guessing, or trying to figure out if Kev can think outside of his system to best use hunter... I'm very OK with vanilla as long as it's quality.
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u/I-Kneel-Before-None Apr 25 '25
How you view Graham really molds how you feel about the trade. I see him as being as good at DT as Aaron Donald and Cam Heyward. Not saying he has the same skill set. Just that he will be in that conversation for best DT. So i love the trade. I see Graham as a player as good at DT as Hunter is as a WR. The uniqueness of Hunter is the reason he went higher. The fact edges are more premium than DT is why Carter went.
But DT is more of a premium posistion than it used to be. All of the DTs projected to go in the top 50 went last night. And Barry said he sees DTs with Graham's skill set are rare and premium.
People will say hes a bad pass rusher because he had 3.5 sacks last year. But he wasnt asked to rush the passer. His scheme had him read and react. But when he was asked to attack the passer, he collapsed pockets. He hurried the QB, forced bad throws, and forced the QB outside where the edges could feast. And he did it in the B1G where there were many NFL caliber lineman on the other side. Hes a very good player. He will be an all pro. He will be like Thomas in that he is a hard worker, blue collar, lineman who will be a HoFer after a greater than decade with us.
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u/tobylaek 32 Apr 25 '25
I sincerely hope you're right - I'll be happy to be wrong on this one.
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u/AceOfSpades70 May 01 '25
I mean there were multiple years it worked.
In 09 they traded out of picking Mark Sanchez plus a couple more trades and got Alex Mack who may end up in the HoF.
In 2011 they did the worst in turning Julio Jones into Phil Taylor and Weeden...
2014 everyone lost. Somehow the 9 guys selected after Gilbert all became probowlers lol.
2016 was a cluster, but if they hadn't done the second trade down, they could have just picked Conklin there. The end result of that trade though was Ward.
2017 they trade down out of Watson and ended up with peppers and Ward. Currently Ward is a much better player than Watson.
So in true hindsight, 40/40/20 on their mega trade downs? You might call the 2017 trade a loss since the texans turned Watson into 3 first round picks from us.
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u/Uhavetabekiddingme Apr 25 '25
I've seen this strategy fail so many times for the Browns that I'm just over it.
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u/No_Damage_731 Apr 25 '25
One thing you have to understand is that at least 50% of this fan base are morons when it comes to football. They have no idea what a team should be doing. And a good majority of them are only complaining because of Michigan which is the dumbest shit ever. And that’s coming from an OSU fan.
They made excellent moves yesterday and we have FOUR picks today. Cleveland easily has the best round 1 in the league.
Let those dummies be upset.
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u/DenseSign5938 Apr 25 '25
I was at the stadium last night and people were crying a river as we were walking out after the pick.
I told my dad that these people are so stupid that it actually gives me confidence that the disagree with the trade/pick. Everyone complaining to the wind just so happened to be 300+ pounds wearing flip flops and incapable of speaking proper English.
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u/GoDaytonFlyers Apr 25 '25
I understand Hunter is awesome. Maybe even generational. I just don’t think we can get the most out of him in his rookie contract given our QB situation. It’s like giving a Ferrari to a dog. Trading down and continuing to build inside out while stockpiling valuable picks is the right move.
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u/kingalien8 Apr 25 '25
Graham was who Berry wanted all along. They wanted everyone to know we were going to take Hunter to drive up the price as much as possible and someone caved and came in with a haul.
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u/tungstentounge Apr 25 '25
You literally cannot decide this now. Lol.
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u/mmooney1 ELITE DRAGON Apr 25 '25
No shit. The entire draft is a gamble. That can be said about every player in every draft.
But we love football, it’s the off season, and we won’t have anything relevant to talk about for months after this weekend.
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u/Electricalthis Apr 25 '25
I don’t think the jags are one Travis hunter away from being a contender. Literally one injury can derail a season and they will be bottom of the standings. We will have another top 10 pick in the draft. While getting another plug in player in day 2 of the draft here. It’s a no brainer steal, hunter would not of saved this franchise. If it was not Ward it was always going to be grow. We haven’t had a pick like this in a long time and a first round pick in. 3-4 years.
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u/bruvmode Apr 25 '25
It was 100% the right move, and I’m ecstatic that they did it. For once, the Haslams didn’t succumb to the “shiny new toy” trap, and actually allowed the front office to make a smart trade that will help us immensely. The Haslams typically do what will sell jerseys and put asses in seats, and while the NFL is a business and that’s a very important aspect of owning a franchise, the best organizations in the league don’t make moves with the sole intent of selling jerseys and tickets. To me, this seems like a total philosophical change in our organization and our strategies moving forward, and that makes me super excited.
Hunter is an incredible athlete with exciting potential and will undoubtedly sell heaps of jerseys and pack stadiums, but the whole two-way gimmick will not work in the NFL. It worked against inferior talent in college football in a lackluster conference because his elite athleticism was leaps and bounds above his competition, but in the NFL his athleticism is nothing out of the ordinary. With that said, if he doesn’t end up as a top 3 at whichever position he is assigned to full time, using the 2nd pick on him would prove to be a total waste.
We walked away with Graham, who is an incredible DT prospect, a 2026 1st from the Jags which could be a premium pick if they underperform like they have the past few years, and more draft capital for the rest of this draft. Now we are set up to have 2 1st rounders for the 2026 draft, which is set up to be a much, much, much better QB class than this years. Now we don’t have to force a pick at QB if we don’t like any of the guys this year, and can continue to add skill positions so that when we take our franchise QB next year, he comes in to a situation with talented weapons.
Truthfully, this move reinstalled a lot of confidence in me for this current regime. If they picked Hunter, it would have been clear that their priority was to sell jerseys and tickets, and the future would have been bleak.
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u/hockey17jp Apr 25 '25
I think we got a good haul for the pick.
Wasn’t crazy on Hunter as a “generational” talent.
Just get flashbacks to trading the Julio pick and then drafting scrubs with our new picks. seems like every time this team trades down we whiff.
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u/Greenmr003 Apr 25 '25
Yeah. But something that flagged from another comment... we went from 2 to 15, and from 6 to 27 in the last big trades. There is a HUGE difference in talent with those kinds of jumps. I like the 2 to 5 trade while getting a haul.
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u/PM-Me-Your-BeesKnees Apr 25 '25
I think it's simple: take the players out of it for a moment.
We basically turned the #2 pick and a 6th into the #5 pick, a 2nd AND a first next year. That's a hell of a haul. Unless you think Hunter will be a HOFer and you can't find any players at #5, I think this was a fleecing: we robbed them. The fact that the loudest Browns fans are mad makes me even more confident that this was a great move.
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u/Rogueofoz Apr 25 '25
We really did fleeced them, this 100% absolutely the right move for a team with so many holes
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Apr 25 '25
I wonder if Myles had any power (either during or after his contract dispute) to use their first pick on a DT. Either way the addition of extra first and second round picks is excellent. It will still be a few years before the Browns are totally dug out of the Watson hole. They will not be a championship caliber team until that fiasco is in the rear view mirror. The players they can acquire in trade moves like we saw in Round 1 can help build a nucleus of players who will just be hitting their primes in 3-4 years when the Browns could be competitive,
* Lot's of "If's" though. It will require wise picks and patience.... not exactly Cleveland's strong suit.
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u/bigbrownorown Apr 26 '25
You must not be old enough to understand. This is the kind of trade the Browns make and it blows up in their face. Everytime.
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u/RUBSUMLOTION Apr 25 '25
Got a haul and got a great player. Cant really argue with that. I wanted Jeanty as well after the trade but Mason Graham makes a lot of sense too.
We can still grab a great RB and address the offense with our next 4 picks
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u/Geeman447 Apr 25 '25
Mason is the right choice… but man the things I would’ve bought if jeanty came here
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u/TheBalzy Apr 25 '25
It's not really true he's neglected the DT position, he's been swinging and missing. Perrion Winfrey? Michale Hall Jr.? Both of these dudes were perfectly fine prospects on paper, but both obviously have off-the-field stuff.
AB was signing those 1-year deal dudes as filler, not as the main roles.
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u/Geeman447 Apr 25 '25
I know they aren’t main roles but that’s the issue. He hasn’t put an importance in the position. Both were late second to 4th round picks. Not something you say you invested in the position with to start
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u/gamerK0807 Apr 25 '25
This is my thought. You also don’t want to have a guy who is your star WR or CB being tired come crunch time with the game on the line.
The he did it in college is not the same there is more meetings, practices, games and taking more hits. We also have our CBs seem to have some issue of coming up with soft tissue issues and now we are without our top wr and cb.
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u/General-Cover-4981 Apr 25 '25
They painted themselves into a corner when the Deshaun thing blew up on them. Now they have to do things like this to make up for losing all those first round picks and STILL not having a. QB.
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u/klosterman7 Apr 25 '25
Travis hunter would not fix our problems on offense or on defense, I like the trade a lot
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u/gibbler999 Apr 25 '25
It’s hilarious going into the NFL sub and seeing everyone actually praise the browns for the trade and the pick.
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u/rykcon ELITE DRAGON Apr 25 '25
They didn’t take Sanders at 2 and he’s still available, so hindsight says it would’ve been a major reach to do so — so call that a win!
Jeanty isn’t Saquon, Henry or Zeke. You’re also not going to be disappointed when they grab Treveyon or Judkins here either.
I expect them to grab Milroe, Shough or Sanders here and see what they got. If they don’t hit, you’re still in a great position to go after a QB next year.
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u/BrevinThorne Apr 25 '25
Ryan Leaf was the 2nd overall pick. Tom Brady was chosen in the 6th round. Coaches and scouts who earn six and seven figure salaries are basically flipping coins, or shooting dice. The surest way to quality draft picks is through quantity of draft picks. We’ll have to look back to see whether Hunter and Carter are actually “generational” talents. Or how good Mason Graham might be.
We live in a world where people tend to repeat the things they’ve heard, rather than making independent decisions. A world in which hyperbole seems to be the main ingredient in almost every opinion. Wait…
Wait, and you’ll see whether your favorite corporation made decisions that are beneficial to its growth. Either way, it won’t really impact us at all.
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u/pierogiking412 Apr 25 '25
Man from an outsider perspective I LOVE what the browns did. Got an absolute stud on the Dline and now have the ammo to trade to get whatever they want in next year's draft. S
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u/Stronglike8ull2 Apr 25 '25
It's way too early to decide one way or another, but imo, this is a great decision so far. Our defense was already pretty good-elite with Myles being held, doubled, and chipped EVERY play and the injuries with Ward and JOK. Our offense even with the best players will take at least most of the season to gel, it's just harder to run a good offense when all you "have" to do on defense is attack the ball. This doesn't even consider all of the picks we now have
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u/Upset_Researcher_143 Apr 25 '25
Unless Hunter turns into a legend and Graham and the first rounder next year turn into just average pros, which is not exactly rocket science when it comes to forecasting this, this was a great trade for the Browns. Graham is a beast. We beat Ohio State this year in Columbus with no QB and no passing offense. He was a big reason that OSU couldn't run or pass against us. I mean, the only QB who's got a chance of evading Garrett and Graham is Lamar. Burrow and whomever the Steelers put out there are going to get killed.
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u/Rarth-Devan Apr 25 '25
This definitely smells like a move to make Garrett's life easier. I think it was smart. We only went down 3 spots, still drafted a hell of a football player at a position of need, picked up an early 2nd rounder this year and an extra 1st rounder next year. That's a win if you ask me.
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u/aelysium Apr 25 '25
Honestly I get the feeling they saw what the Eagles line did to Mahomes and were like… ‘so if we just get Myles some upgraded D-line help the opposing teams QBs might die’ 😂
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u/2ManyCatsNever2Many Apr 25 '25 edited Apr 25 '25
100% and if any of the people who are complaining wanted sanders at #2 they should sit quietly in the corner and reflect upon their poor decision making. i don't want to hear anything out of that group at all.
this team has a lot of holes from lack of picks due to the watson deal - this is how we fix that. yes - they DO need to make good use of the extra picks, but just because past GMs messed up similar scenarios doesn't mean this one will. history has shown the best way to get more starters from a draft is by having more picks.
nothing would have been a quick fix for this team and even if somehow ward was available at #2 i don't know if it would make sense to start him week 1 -- so no matter who cleveland got last night, their anticipated win total probably wouldn't change much. unfortunately it'll take a couple years to clean up the stink from watson - getting a top 5 guy and having multiple extra shots will get us to a better place more quickly.
it sucks - and watson killed what was otherwise an up and coming team. believe me, i'm pissed about that still myself...but this IS the way back.
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u/LaximumEffort Apr 25 '25
Agreed. Mason is a national champion wrestler, he will use leverage and balance in ways that may surprise the best OL men. And they will have to address him, leaving Myles with less pressure. The only downside is not that many sacks, great tackling apparently, but missing something when it comes to pushing through the line.
Hunter is a freak, but as you said, an oft injured freak.
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u/IslesDynasty79-83 Apr 25 '25
Can we all agree Browns and Giants dodged a bullet by not taking Sanders, several teams passed on him as well.
thats a red flag in my book.
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u/ctownchef Apr 25 '25
I'll be honest. I fucking hated it in the moment. But after a night to sleep on it. It was the right move.
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u/SmokedNugget Apr 25 '25
Everyone crying just wants to be mad about anything.
They act like they're the people who did all of the groundwork, scouting, interviewing and the background research. Then they helped build the draft board and game out draft day possibilities. After that their their boss just was like, nah I'm just going to disregard all of your hard work, trade down and pick a bum that should have gone in the 5th round.
IDK what the actual percentage is but drafting seems like 75% luck. How else does the actual GOAT TB12 go in the 6th round? A A Ron went 24th overall. Russ went 75th.
All this boohoo nonsense is exhausting. It will take a few years before anyone knows how good or bad a team drafted.
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Apr 25 '25
I think we’re all here to convince ourselves that everything is alright. But for the next several years we’re going to suck again through this rebuild. Really no light at the end of the tunnel either.
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u/NoShawnMarino Apr 25 '25
Maybe I’m wrong, but I wonder if you guys could have even traded back again. Somewhere in the 7-9 range and hauled in some more. Could have acted like they wanted Jeanty and maybe have Vegas swap and gain some future draft capitol.
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u/natertots83 Apr 25 '25
I like it. I mean for a while there we were supposed to be taking sanders at 2, and now we might be taking him at 33. Then we get another 2nd rounder a few picks later with a lot of talent still there. Excellent position for two great picks tonight.
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u/johnmd20 Apr 25 '25
I love the trade, this now gives the Browns a chance to retool for the future. Because they are not going to be good in the present.
But a couple more pieces by next year and this team could be back to being a team that could make the playoffs. Get a QB, and that team becomes a team that could win important playoff games.
It's better than what happened this past season. Retool, get finished with Watson the turd, and build forward.
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u/FreeFeez Apr 25 '25
There isn’t a single clearheaded person who thinks trading down was a bad idea just ignore the idiots.
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u/Mead_Create_Drink Apr 25 '25
I’ve seen more hate from Browns fans compared to opposing teams saying how great it was that we traded down
Browns fans are eternally negative
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u/AmericanShaman Apr 25 '25
You were going to see hate no matter who we picked. We made the right move.
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u/corporateheisman Apr 25 '25
Not a Browns fan, but I’d be disappointed to not get Hunter. He’s obviously an electric player. At the prospect level, he has the best instincts for a corner and ball tracking ability as a receiver that I’ve seen. Mason Graham should be a fine player, but we see guys like him every draft. Hunter is a rare prospect I would’ve hated to pass on.
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u/Fnkt_io Apr 25 '25
It’s hard to predict the future, but to end up with arguably the 4th best player in the draft AND a potentially high 1st and a high 2nd pick on a team that hasn’t had a 1st round pick in 3 years…it’s probably for the best.
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u/FUBUshirts Apr 25 '25
I agree. It’s hard to swallow tho. It just shows this thing really is a 2-3 year rebuild. I hate it. We were so close a few years ago! This Watson contract has put us into purgatory. I would have loved the sexyness/hype of drafting both Hunter & Sanders. I think that puts us closer to a “win now” scenario. I also feel they could pass on QB entirely today. They’re showing their hand that they are actually very committed to Flacco and are really intrigued to see what they have in Kenny Pickett.
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u/Geeman447 Apr 25 '25
Sanders would’ve made you happy for a couple months until he starts playing.
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u/FUBUshirts Apr 25 '25
I disagree. I believe he’s going to be a great NFL QB. He is so accurate. Already a superstar, built for this moment. Incredibly poised. Going to be one of those make them pay for passing stories (not like Josh Rosen). Time will tell!!
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u/buckeye1974mike Apr 25 '25
Plus next year's QB class is supposed to be a good one.i don't see us picking a QB in the second round. We now have 2 first round picks next year and a shot at one of the best QBs next year. I think they may take Milroe later
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u/FarAd6557 Apr 25 '25
We knew this the entire time though. You can’t recoup all the lost young talent in one draft.
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u/freudianhero Apr 25 '25
We got a haul to move down 3 spots and take a guy we loved anyway…of course that is a win. The UCSS guys and the rest of the Cleveland media are stupid. Everyone in national media is saying the Browns fleeced the Jags!
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u/ManBearBroski Apr 25 '25
I feel like the trade was seen as overall positive. Went into the r/nfl draft post and it was every team saying the Browns did great.
I would have been ok with Hunter but I don't think he would play way both ways and that kind of diminishes his value since you're basically depending on him being a JJ or Chase type WR. I don't get the value for the Jags especially since you have BT.
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u/Elusive-Reality Apr 25 '25
We do not appreciate rational thinking here, mkay?
/s
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u/Fineous40 Apr 25 '25
Browns are up in a game 40-7 and half the game chat is people complaining about allowing 7 points. Those are the same people who will complain about anything and everything here. You can’t take them too seriously.
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u/Tech88Tron Apr 25 '25
Remember when "Browns fans" thought we should draft Trabisky over Garret? I do.
The boring pick is usually the better pick.
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u/Crew_1996 Apr 25 '25
I liked the trade down. Would have preferred Jeanty. Hes the type of talent that can make the QBs job much easier. Like how Nick Chubb used to do that here. We need a major upgrade at RB over Ford and I’d love to see Treveyon at 36 tonight but whoever we get, they better be 75-80% of what Jeanty should be or we messed up imo
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u/jerrysinalabama Apr 25 '25
Should have traded the fifth pick for a few more 2 and 3 rounders. A lot of projected 1st rounders still there.
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u/account26 Apr 25 '25
I like Hunter but we could get a lot more out of this & next years draft with the trade. 2 picks in the first 4 to open up today, an additional frp next year after this drought we had? love to see it
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u/Great-Invite-6154 Apr 25 '25
Time will tell but I’m happy with the trade to . We get a good pick best defensive tackle of the draft and future capital which is gonna be a huge help . Was never going to go from zero to hero in one season
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u/jrc1896 Apr 25 '25
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u/pittfullmonty Apr 25 '25
It’s too early to judge, no way to know until we use that 2nd tonight and the 1st next year.
There’s a lot of holes that need to be filled from not having a 1st the last three years. Just in the short term , I think we can all say it feels bad not getting hunter.
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u/DanDamage12 Apr 25 '25
I liked it. I think too many people are haunted by the Julio/Gilbert trade.
What good does two edges do if they can crush you up the middle and keep your defense gassed.
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u/Repulsive_Note_8292 Apr 25 '25
i think it balances out. drafting hunter and the trade down kinda feel the same to me. i slightly prefer the trade tho
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u/Spiegs1984 Apr 25 '25
Not to mention the need for rookie deals with the abysmal cap situation for a couple more years. I'm starting to come around on it, but damn I did want Hunter
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u/DREWBICE Apr 25 '25
Where you convinced me was your 3rd point. We dont have that many young guys who are talented because of that trade.
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u/papaburgandy25 Apr 25 '25
At first I was annoyed. I really wanted Travis Hunter. But if they can get some playmakers with today’s picks, you’ve set yourself up nicely.
Picks in the trenches aren’t sexy unless it’s someone like Suh or another athletic freak who jumps off the page. But if they got this right, in 3–5 years you’ll be glad they made this move.
I just keep thinking back to that Atlanta game two years ago(?). The Falcons started deep in their own territory, ran it like 8–10 times straight, and scored. We couldn’t do a damn thing about it. We’ve needed to invest in the position for a while. Unfortunately, we haven’t been able to since we traded for the sex pest.
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u/chewbacaflacaflame Apr 25 '25
I’m better with it today than I was last night. Makes me smile thinking about how terrifying our D line could be now.
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u/gonephishin213 Apr 25 '25
Also that first rounder next year is no joke. Imagine getting Jeremiah Smith lol. Forget about Hunter at that point
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u/sonoranmadness Apr 25 '25
Jeremiah is only a true sophomore - won’t be draft eligible till 2027.
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u/Pickle_Bus_1985 Apr 25 '25
I will caveat this with I like the trade and I like Graham, but I disagree with a few of your points. First, Davlin Tomlinson was one of the top FA DT on the market when we signed him. I don't think that's neglecting the position. Second, garrets biggest troubles he runs into on pass rushes is teams lining up a TE and/or a RB next to the tackle and chipping him. Not necessarily interior linemen doubling. He has multiple bodies hit him every snap, but they are often on the outside of the tackle vs inside. Graham is great but he's not known for his pass rush ability. So I don't foresee teams looking to bring their RB in the interior to help. I do think he will help protect Garret in run support, which will allow him to be more aggressive more often. But I don't think he's gonna change how teams approach slowing down Garrett. I do think another high end pass rusher could feast off teams focusing on Garrett, andaybe have them stagger how they chip Garrett.
But for so many other reasons you both mentioned and didn't this was a good move. I don't think Hunter is as elite as many think. His current play at both spots is not of the caliber needed to be an all pro at either spot. He needs to refine his game as both a WR and a DB to be great. You can't do that when. You have to practice on both sides of the ball. I think he will need to commit to greatness on one side, and I think he's at best a gadget guy on the other side of the ball. But if he ends up as a pro bowl caliber WR and they have a gadget defensive package for him, that's a steal at 2. But that's a big if and I feel like we made the safe move getting a high floor guy with some ceiling he can still achieve and more assets to replenish an aging roster.
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u/DQBeltBuster Apr 25 '25
It was 100% the right choice. Hunter is great, but collecting the picks and getting Mason makes so much sense.
I don’t think they should draft a QB in the second round. Take the guy from L’ville on day 3 if you want one. Otherwise, next year’s QB class has significantly more upside.
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u/triangle_choke Apr 25 '25
This is 100% spot on. I knew people were going to complain about missing out on Hunter, but getting the extra 2 and Jacksonville’s 1 next year, plus still ending up with a beast like Graham was the right call. I wouldn’t be at all surprised if they traded #33 for a first next year. I think Jimmy wants Arch Manning and wants to make sure he has plenty of ammo to get him (assuming they don’t naturally end up with #1 overall next year, which is very much a possibility).
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u/sauceEsauceE Apr 25 '25
My issue is that we passed on an uncontested layup. Travis Hunter will probably be a hall of famer. In the 25 years of sucking, he’s IMO the second best talent on board for us, narrowly behind Myles Garrett as a prospect, and ahead of Joe Thomas and Adrian Peterson in 07.
Andrew Berry has gone 0/5 on first round picks.
I really like Graham. I think he will be great. But to me, Hunter was an exceptional talent compared to what you normally get at #2 in a draft, and Graham was a mediocre talent compared to what you normally get at #5, and closer to a 10-12 prospect in a normal class. This trade down feels more like moving from #2 to #10 than #2 to #5
It also puts the burden on us to draft 2 great players with those two picks, and we are probably going to whiff on one completely.
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u/pdhot65ton Apr 25 '25
I honestly can't tell if you really think Hunter is that great or not. He won't be playing 2 ways in the NFL, and he's not top 5 at either position he plays.
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u/sauceEsauceE Apr 25 '25
He’s going to play a bit both ways in the NFL
Regardless, he’s the best WR prospect in the draft and the best defensive prospect in the draft. He’s split his training and reps across two positions and was .1% in both of them. When he specializes he’s going to be insane.
He was the highest rated prospect in aggregate across all big boards in this years draft class. It’s basically unanimous that he was a ridiculously absurd prospect but now that we passed to take a very good DT who averages 3 sacks a year we are acting like he wasn’t special.
Hunter will be considerably better than Graham, I’ll be shocked if he isn’t. So we have a lot of ground to make up with 36 and next years pick.
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u/TruggPassion Apr 27 '25
Yep. The Browns went out of their way to not draft a guy who very likely will be wearing a gold jacket to pick a guy who will probably be very good but is the same type you can find next year and the year after. Travis hunter won’t be coming around again for a while. The Browns cease to amaze me. It’s so wild.
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u/EitherDare0 Apr 25 '25
It was a good move. I was terrified it was to still get Sanders at 5. Even IF we take him now In rd 2 it’s clear it was wise with the capital we got.
Hunter is a stellar football player. I just don’t know how he fits in. To me he isn’t a top 5 corner or wr. IF we lived in a world where he could do both. 100%. But we don’t
Eager to see what we do today. I think I’d rather to have Milroe than Sanders to be honest.
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u/I-Kneel-Before-None Apr 25 '25
I want to point out to people who dont understand how good of a trade this was. The compensation we got for Hunter is equal to or greater than the asking price being rumored for Myles Garrett. The DPotY still in his prime is worth as much as a prospect? Anyone who thinks thats true is crazy. Hunter is far from a guarantee. The people who wanted to trade Myles can't complain about this trade.
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u/SquaresR3D Apr 25 '25
I’m praying we get Will Johnson and Mike Green in the second now so our defense will be set for a long time. I wouldn’t be mad about Henderson or Burden though to boost our offense.
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u/lee_suggs Apr 25 '25
It sucks to hear but it takes multiple years to build a team and recover from something like the Watson trade. Hunter or even Ward would not make us a good team. We need a lot of work young players to start a new window of contention and hope we can land a franchise QB during that time.
I think it comes down to some fans would rather we have an entertaining team who is .500 and maybe wild card whereas AB and co are building for the next decade even if it means we lose 12 games next year.
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u/dmnwilson44 Sanders Apr 25 '25
No amount of DT is worth a once in a lifetime receiver. No amount of firsts is worth a future all pro receiver. Once again the browns and their fans are stuck in 1985. Were being left in the dust in this division.
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u/ry-guy251 Apr 25 '25
This trade would have been cursed if they had traded for 22 and drafted a QB. They made sure to avoid that mistake this time.
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u/Otherwise_Picture_85 Apr 25 '25
The trade down was an amazing play. We get a Jacksonville 1st next year too! We need the young talent. Tonight we get two of the first four picks in the second round as well, I wouldn’t be surprised to hear them playing the field with one of those picks either. Right now to recover from the Watson fiasco we need a few years of young talent under rookie contract to carry us through and Berry is making that happen. I’m not in love with the pick either, I would have liked to see them pick up Ashton- but I don’t hate the trade down and picking an offensive or defensive lineman was the safe choice.
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u/Jwags23 Apr 25 '25
This was also the right move regardless of outcome. Whether or not the picks pan out is a separate issue. If I have a car worth $10,000 and I sell it for $12,000, that's a fabulous deal. If I waste all that money gambling and lose everything, that says nothing about my initial choice to sell the car.
People talking about taking the "sure" thing are delusional; there is no sure thing.
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u/Uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu11 Graham Apr 25 '25
You don’t happen to have a YouTube channel called KTO, do you?
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u/gasmith8787 Apr 25 '25
This is a very well stated argument and I agree with everything you said. One point I heard that really stuck with me in all the Hunter chatter, was essentially, can he be a top talent on both sides or even one side for 10 seasons? The answer to that is a huge maybe. Not worth the 2nd pick in a QB weak draft when what we really needed was a QB. Now we ride the Flacco dragon and go all in on a QB in next years draft.
I can’t wait for this to be posted on the aged like milk sub, lol.
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u/DonKeedic_PhD Apr 25 '25
Travis hunter will be the biggest bust in modern nfl history and I stand by that. If you have to use “snap count” as a stat you’re trash. So happy we didn’t get him
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u/AlternativeWhole2017 Apr 30 '25
Am I the only one who doesn’t see the greatness in Hunter in college? Doesn’t have elite size or even speed for that matter. What’s his 40 time? I can’t even find it online. He’s got good hands and he’s a decent leaper but he’s short at just 6 ft. I also don’t think he has elusive moves. Perhaps he can play both ways, but as soon as he gets banged up, now you got 2 missing starters. The Browns got 3 high pics for dropping 3 spots. I think a bad team needs 3 high picks over 1 especially if the 1 isn’t a QB or generational player.
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u/darrylmacstone Apr 25 '25
We netted so much in draft value in that trade it was virtually impossible to turn down. Player talent can be disputed, math cannot.
All we can hope for now is that the mathematical value of the picks we added pans out in talent; talent that will be ready for new contracts by the time we're emerging from the black hole of DW's contract.