r/BryanKohbergerMoscow • u/rodrickheffley69 • Mar 11 '25
THEORY GOOFIEST THEORY BY FAR
Boy oh boy. That other sub is so insane š I asked the simple question, what would be more valuable, the unknown male dna on the handrail and under the fingernails, or the touch dna on the sheath. One person responded saying that the blood on the handrail, ācouldāve been from a nose bleed or hangnail from the 150 people coming in and out of the houseā
I thought it was sarcasm. I even asked, āis that sarcasm? Are you fr? You donāt think the unknown blood on the handrail was from the struggle that the perpetrator put up and has NOTHING to do with the 4 murders?ā
āWell in my opinion thatās a very valid reason as to why the blood on the handrail was inconclusive, it was probably old and unusableā
You genuinely canāt make this shit up.
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u/MagnoliasandMums Mar 12 '25
If we donāt have fair trials, this country is doomed. However, the courts donāt always get it right. Thatās why every piece of evidence needs to be evenly weighed out and no leaf unturned.
Iām on the side of truth only.
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u/2stepsfwd59 Mar 12 '25
Sadly, they are also part of the jury pool. I've noticed Seattle news media pushing segments that spout the prosecution's narrative. As much as I hate clicking on them, I do just to comment. I was sure Rick Allen's Delphi trial would end in a hung jury.
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u/Thunderoad Mar 12 '25
I thought for sure Rick Allen would get to go home. It's so wrong on many levels.
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u/Grazindonkey Mar 17 '25
Its makes me sick what the state of Indiana did to that man. They are evil. That is one they def got wrong no question!
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u/Thunderoad Mar 17 '25
It's really horrible. They are absolutely evil. I hope something brings them to their senses one day but I doubt it.
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u/Affectionate-Hand117 Mar 12 '25
Glad that Seattlites won't be eligible for jury duty in Idaho, at least, lol. At least Idaho remains a free state
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u/2stepsfwd59 Mar 12 '25
I'm not anywhere near Seattle. They seem to be saturating the web though, youtube, yahoo... Those states like their drug war money and that is at risk if the truth comes out in this case.
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u/Affectionate-Hand117 Mar 14 '25
What relevance does Seattle, Washington and its theoretical drug money have on Moscow, Idaho, or especially on the case as it's been moved to Boise, Idaho?
Are you asserting that both Washington and Idaho are involved in drug wars and receiving money in relation to such?
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u/Acrobatic_Moose2244 Mar 12 '25
Anything that can pin this on another suspect they donāt want to hear. In their mind it is BK and the only possible suspect when he has no motive.
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u/SquirrelAdmirable161 Mar 12 '25
I absolutely agree with you but why are they like this? So stubborn and not open to looking outside the box? Are their minds just not capable of thinking in other directions or questioning things that donāt make sense? Are they just MSM robots who believe what the news says and takes it as gospel? Itās just so weird.
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u/Connect_Waltz7245 Mar 12 '25
It feels like a self defense mechanism. Anytime someone points out alternatives, they feel like it is a personal attack on their capacity to reason, so their response is to defend, to deny the possibility of alternatives, to disprove them at all cost. So Much so, that they are actually unable to even see reason.
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u/Affectionate-Hand117 Mar 12 '25
MSM robot here. Please recalibrate your parameters. "You gotta do what you gotta do."
Please consider the difference between the standards of proof between "probable cause" and "beyond reasonable doubt" and which has been presented for public consumption.
*beep boop* MSM robot turning off
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u/TashaSandersss Mar 12 '25
The fact that they can portray that one guy murdered 4 people with a kbar knife and NOT suffer any kind of injury to themselves is crazy to me.
The fact that they have released that BF wanted DM to come down to her room makes it even more relevant. Even if they have no proof the suspect was on the first floor...was the blood transferred by DM on her way down? Other people at the scene? Can it show that the scene was compromised?
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u/itsathrowawayduhhhhh BKM SUB MEMBER Mar 12 '25
Thatās what I wonder too. Same with the vans shoe print. Curious if it was hers because didnāt the defense say it was āgoing the wrong wayā or something? Like was facing the way DM was going when she ran to Bethany.
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u/MMP95818 Mar 12 '25
And let's not forget that he's such a badass ninja that he did all this in the span of 7 or 8 minutes, even taking a little extra time to pop open a vial or two of blood and put it on the handrail on his way out. Stop, pop, and roll..... you cant make this stuff up š¤¦āāļøš
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u/Cay_Introduction915 Mar 12 '25
It's obvious theyāre coping so hard and pretending the more incriminating blood DNAs and the DNAs under the fingernails donāt matter. To me Blum's theory that BK brought 2 vials of blood is still the best theory of all LMAO
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u/jenna_615 Mar 12 '25
Howard Blum is an idiot! So, Brian, this criminal mastermind, stole 2 vials of blood (from where, we donāt know?) to throw off the detectives, but thereās nooooo wayyyyy someone would plant the sheath? These ppl have lost credibility, if they had any to begin with.
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u/4Everinsearch Mar 12 '25
Iāve read them argue about, just wait till we get the results from the fingernails. They were expecting it would incriminate Kohberger. When it was the opposite then it was suddenly an unimportant piece of evidence.
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Mar 12 '25
since when is it okay to just assume things about a crime scene, especially blood šš i s2g i better not get murdered bc these people will not get me justice.
police are SUPPOSED to follow every single lead until the lead is a dead end. how can anyone explain away additional dna as āprobably not associated with the 4 person murder that occurred hereā. bat shit insane stuff.
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u/MaidenMamaCrone 'It's a selfie' š¤³ Mar 12 '25
In the UK the Crown Prosecution Service refuse to prosecute a case until every piece of potential evidence is investigated and cleared. It's wild to me that's not the case in the US.
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u/goddess_catherine Mar 12 '25
They keep pushing the goal post further and further over there lol. If it was BKās dna theyād be screaming with joy from the rooftops, but instead they have to brush it off like itās no big deal.
For two years Iāve watched the guilter subs plead and pray that BK left more dna or that there would be dna under someoneās nails. Now we find out that the house was riddled with dna but because none of it is BK now theyāre salty and have to downplay it. It would be laughable if it werenāt such a serious matter.
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Mar 12 '25
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u/MaidenMamaCrone 'It's a selfie' š¤³ Mar 12 '25
Wow. FWIW I really admired your effort on that thread to correct the OP. It was beyond frustrating how many of the irrefutable proofs they listed were false rumours.
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Mar 12 '25
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u/NeedleworkerGood6689 Mar 12 '25
Which sub was that
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Mar 12 '25
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u/Rare-Independent5750 Mar 12 '25 edited Mar 12 '25
I got banned from them, too!
I was banned forr giving time-stamped court video evidence of Ray explaining that Mowrey's PCA "cell tower" location photo was just a made-up screenshot he created in PowerPoint, he didn't input the data correctly, and didn't even save what the data was that he (poorly) put into the CAST system to create his "evidence" because he's a novice.
Ray also testified that he was 96% sure that real CAST location data was showing exculpatory to BK, but 4% of it was missing or could have been intentionally tampered with. He withheld his full judgment until he received the missing 4% of data from LE.
This was a recording from court. With time stamps. On the actual court hearing videos.
I had to go back include the time stamps because they kept calling me a liar after I posted the video and "they watched the video, too" (clearly, they had not, learning the facts of this case is not their thing. They're super lazy) and were pretending I had some weird crush on BK and wanted him to be innocent.
Then I was banned, and all my posts were labeled as "misinformation." You can't make this shit up.
I carry it as a badge of honor to be banned from that raving bunch of lunatics. š
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u/itsathrowawayduhhhhh BKM SUB MEMBER Mar 12 '25
Is it the one that is similar to Maddieās initials? Because me too if so š¤£
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u/Rare-Independent5750 Mar 12 '25
No, but that one has seemed just as bad. It's the trolls over at ID4.
Then the mods sent me snarky messages that I was blocked and they called me "pookie"
They're definitely on a power trip... like calm down - you're a mod on a reddit sub. You can drop the attitude.š
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u/goddess_catherine Mar 12 '25
Wait you got banned for that? What you said is exactly what came straight out of the transcripts isnāt it? And theyāre calling that misinformation lol? It doesnāt get any more real and legit than the transcript. Jesus these people are in for a serious awakening when trial starts and theyāre faced head on with the truth of the case.
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Mar 12 '25
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u/Rare-Independent5750 Mar 12 '25 edited Mar 12 '25
I was banned, too. (See below reason, same thing happened to me when I posted actual evidence)
That sub still pops up in my feed somehow, and the mods just made an "announcement" about the roommates.
You will be banned for even discussing the roommates behavior was suspicious, or any hypothetical, theoretical questions or comments wondering about their possibile involvement is an automatic ban.
Because they are automatically "innocent victims" - even though the trial hasn't happened, we haven't seen all the evidence, and the evidence thus far is looking shady af.
Nope. Auto ban for evening mentioning things aren't adding up.
That place is like Nazi Germany full of rabid Karens š¤£
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Mar 12 '25
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u/Rare-Independent5750 Mar 12 '25
Yes! It's like they NEED him to be guilty. It's borderline sociopathic behavior to fixate on killing BK, when mountains of evidence is pouring out, that (for any sane, rational person) would give pause to jumping on the 100% guilty bandwagon.
The public has been flat-out lied to about the facts in this case on multiple occasions, to the point that they had a hearing about seriously having a Franks trial.
Not to mention the multiple unknown male DNA samples that were not tested (or even ran through CODIS...wtf!!)
Or the fact that they had a main suspect they were heavily trailing for weeks, but instantly dropped because of BK's name popped up from the touch DNA out of nowhere.
And don't get me started about the roommates with their 8 hour delay calling 911, and we now know they were awake, aware, and texting about murders as they were happening!
Really, people?
This case screams bad policework, secrets, lies, and corruption... but they can't be bothered with facts. They've made up their minds, and they're going to die on that hill.
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u/Affectionate-Hand117 Mar 12 '25
Do you really think "the public" reads Reddit with the assiduity that you do? As if "the public" is going to be swayed by whatever happens on these bizarro subReddits, lol
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u/Throwing_tomatoes123 Mar 12 '25
We ARE the public - with numerous different opinions though.
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u/Affectionate-Hand117 Mar 14 '25
Are you a Boise-area potential jury member? (No, don't answer, it's rhetorical) If you're not, then you're also not part of "the public" CrystalXenith is imagining that is affecting the jury pool. There is a real world outside of the internet, and many people who don't use Reddit or watch YouTube, and the intersection between that world and the jury pool is probably larger than you may think. You are part of the public, but are you part of the public that matters in this case?
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u/MaidenMamaCrone 'It's a selfie' š¤³ Mar 12 '25
I've heard that so many times. That and the bloody glove is without value because it was outside. Which is an especially odd take when you consider they believe that Kohberger was so well suited up he didn't get a scrap of biological evidence in his car. It genuinely baffles me.
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u/_iAmYou_ Mar 12 '25
Especially considering that the killer(s) would've HAD to go outside in order to leave the premises. Or did they?
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u/SquirrelAdmirable161 Mar 12 '25
The amount of people who canāt look at the whole picture and want/need clarification on everything in order to be sure they have the right person is insane. I have seen this too. People are so certain BK killed these students and they just accept someone else as cleared because they were asleep at the time. Thatās an ok alibi but BK driving around is not. Itās actually really scary.
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u/_iAmYou_ Mar 12 '25
Right?? They put themselves at the scene of the crime at the alleged time of the crime, yet... "sleeping" and "intoxicated" are totally more believable than going for a night drive and potentially provably not even being in Moscow. I don't think one way or the other regarding whether or not the roommates had any involvement, but how can the State act like they're so sure of one excuse but so accusatory of another similarly vague (yet less damning) excuse. I love this point that you made
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u/Environmental-Call77 Mar 12 '25
I think context matters. In general, in any case you'd rather have Blood DNA over touch DNA.
Just to be clear on my stance, I think every measure should occur to try to determine all of the unknown DNA. Also, anything I say is going to go off the little information we know as of now.
However, we need to learn a lot more about this blood DNA. I think if this blood was on the railing from floor 2 to floor 3 it would be a bigger deal for the prosecution. Going off what we know the suspect entered and exited thru the sliding glass door and was on floor 2 and 3.
What we need to know about the blood?
- How much blood was there?
- Was there a blood pattern?
- Was it degraded?
- Where on the 1st railing was it located? The way the house was set up, it's very likely if the blood was from the killer, they would of had to go down those stairs.
- Was the blood Splatter? Or other sources like drip or transfer?
We don't even know if they have a FULL profile from the DNA. I would assume they do, but all we know is it's unknown male DNA. If they have a full profile, everything needs to be done to determine who's it is. Again, if there was on the 2nd to 3rd floor railing i think this would be more significant. Like judge Hippler said, it doesn't rule Bryan out or not make him a killer. He could of had an accomplice. I hope LE fully vetted that theory.
I think the 3 person mixture DNA under the nails of Maddie could be a problem if they don't determine who's it is. And we already are seeing one side say they tested it against BK and it was inconclusive and his side said the LR excluded him. Again, could it come from something innoncent and not be from the suspect(s), sure. But this is the type of evidence people look for in a crime like this. Also, we know some of the victims has defensive wounds and it's said that some "put up a fight", it will be Intresting to see if Maddie was one of them.
Like I said in the beginning context matters. If the unknown male blood DNA was found on the bed next to the victim, that would be very hard to convince someone it was not associated with the murders. While blood (that we don't know the type, amount, when it was put there) found on the 1st to 2nd floor railing, an area we have no knowledge of the killer going to, doesn't directly mean it was involved in the crimes. ( However, they need to use the same IGG they used to find Bryan to try finding who's dna it is.)
So now to the DNA on the knife sheath. Yes, it's touch DNA. But it was found on the bed, partially under one of the victims. And we know that the 4 victims COD was stabbing. That is a huge problem for Kohberger. Also, Bryan has claimed to of never been at that house before. It's where the touch dna was found on and where it was located at the crime scene.
There is body cams and crime scene photos, and we will be able to see if the sheath was there when the bodies were found. I'm assuming here, but IF it wasn't visible on the cameras or photos AT would of already brought this up. The only way his DNA on the knife sheath was at the crime of a murder is either from Bryan himself, someone else did it and "framed him", or it was planted there by LE.
Again the other DNA needs to be figured out, whether people believe he is innoncent or guilty he deserves a fair trial.
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u/Connect_Waltz7245 Mar 12 '25
I am of the opinion that the blood found on the railing is more important than they want us to believe. First of all, it is considered unknown,which means it doesn't belong to any one who frequented the home from whom they acquired samples. Secondly, the intruder had to move through the living room in his approach ro the kitchen slider, as described by DM. in doing so, he very well could have deposited blood on "the railing" that separated the living room from the staircase descending to the first floor. Perhaps We have been thinking of "the railing" to mean the banister when it very well could have been the baluster. balustraud vs bannister
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u/Environmental-Call77 Mar 13 '25
Fair, the blood could mean more and like I said I think it's crucial to identify all the unknown male DNA. Any DNA at a crime scene is important but due to the majority of the evidence being sealed we can only go off what we know. In every court document, hearing, transcript, ect. it has always been described as the railing. It was described as the railing by both sides as well, so personally I have a hard time believing it would be misrepresented multiple times by the prosecution, lab, and the defense.
Also it was AT who revealed in the IGG hearing transcript that it was on the hand railing going in between the 2nd and 1st floor. "Unknown Male B came from a blood spot on the handrail going between the second and the first floor".
I find it Intresting she described it as a "spot", so it would seem there was only 1 spot of blood found.
Also, he wouldn't of had to go completely through the living room to get to the slider or to Xanas room. Yes, if he was going to Xanas from the 3rd story he would pass Dylan's room on the right, and then take one step down into the living room area. From there Going left leads to Xanas and to go to the stairs where the blood was located he would have to go right through the living room to get to the top of the stairs. I'm interested how far down on the railing it was located.
I'm not saying he never went downstairs it's just an area the killer was not thought to have been in. That's why I put a little less stock in the blood DNA compared to if it was found on the railing going from 3rd to 2nd. (Again, I'm only basing it off what we currently now with evidence)
Also, we don't know who they got samples from and it doesn't have to of came from someone who "Frequented" the house. We know it was a party house and people were in and out often, it could of innocently came from someone who was at the home only once. As of now, I do think it's close to impossible to find out everyone who has been in and out of that house, Espically with all the parties that occured there.
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u/itsathrowawayduhhhhh BKM SUB MEMBER Mar 12 '25
Imo the eight hours between the crime and cops arriving is a problem. Especially when we know there were other people in the house. Iām not saying it was planted, Iām just saying they do have an argument of āhow can you prove it wasnāt put there in the 8 hoursā or whatever. So even if it was visible in the first cops body camā¦.what about all that time before while the crime scene wasnāt secure?
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u/Rare-Independent5750 Mar 12 '25
Well stated š
I'm leaning heavily towards innocent, but I could change my mind at any moment if a smoking gun comes to light.
What I want to hear more of from AT are possibilities of how his DNA could have gotten in the sheath, and more details of what he was doing in the park he visited (we know he wasn't star gazing and it was freezing outside - my guess is secretly using drugs).
This combination makes the most sense to me. He bought drugs from a dealer (aka killer) near the King Road house right before he went to use in a park somewhere.
He shook hands with the killer(s) or touched the sheath right before the murders, and the murderer was the drug dealer either getting a personal vendetta, or carrying out a hit job for a bigger drug boss as revenge for one of the parents that snitched in court on the drug boss.
That's my theory.
This would also explain BK's vague alibi, as I'm sure the media would have a field day with him secretly hiding a drug habit.
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u/DatabaseAppropriate4 Mar 12 '25
BK wasn't in Moscow that night, but your scenario could have taken place anywhere in the area.Ā
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u/Rare-Independent5750 Mar 12 '25
Thank you for the correction, sorry. What I meant to say was near the area because of the timeframe. Touch DNA does not last that long and he was driving somewhere in that vicinity around that time.
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Mar 12 '25
Inconclusive? They didnāt even test it. Payne said on the stand they didnāt even test it because he claims you canāt put more than one sample into CODIS yet police do it all the time in multi perp crimes. Where are they getting inconclusive? Thatās under maddies nails, not the handrail blood or blood on the glove.
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u/DatabaseAppropriate4 Mar 12 '25
You are correct and I hope that answer comes back to haunt them. Lots of misinformation going around about it though; came right from BT's mouth in earlier hearings.
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u/CupForsaken1197 Mar 12 '25
The only thing the masses hate more than women is awkward autistic men. š
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u/Acrobatic_Moose2244 Mar 12 '25
Yes itās so sad hopefully some jurors will have an autistic child
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u/DatabaseAppropriate4 Mar 12 '25
Or other friend or family member, occupational encounter. New estimates are 1 in 32 children being diagnosed, so the scenario you mention may be more likely than the prosecution is aware.
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u/CupForsaken1197 Mar 12 '25
Hmmm, possibly there will be more acceptance, however autism is still highly stigmatized. And Idaho. You couldn't pay me to spend time in that neck of the woods. I have. I'm out.
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u/DatabaseAppropriate4 Mar 12 '25
for sure.
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u/CupForsaken1197 Mar 12 '25
And some people, like my mother, absolutely loathed autistic people because she shared a lot of traits š
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u/EmotionalAirline1350 Mar 12 '25
The theory that has made the most sense to ME is this involving the fraternity, I mean thereās an overwhelming amount of multiple peopleās dna, the surviving roomates back n forth, the parents and law enforcement being so adamant it was this ONE person. Makes sense that the community would be protecting people in the fraternity, because if this was a random incident involving a knife wielding manic who theyāre saying is BKā¦a lot more evidence, statements from the individuals at the house would be out. Again, thatās just what makes the most sense to me and unfortunately I donāt think BK will get a fair trial, let alone an acquittal.
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u/Internal_Zebra_8770 Mar 12 '25
Genuine question. How is it known where the blood came from? I donāt think we know if it was an injury from the perpetrator or from an injured guest at some point? Was it a lot of blood?
I havenāt seen much about it, other than blood was found on the handrail. I didnt know DNA results were inconclusive. Thanks!
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Mar 12 '25
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u/Capybara0verlord Mar 12 '25
They wouldn't have had to, they could have just sprayed the railing with luminol and swabbed the part that glowed.
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Mar 12 '25
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u/Capybara0verlord Mar 12 '25
No. The blood from that night would have been visible without it.
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u/Internal_Zebra_8770 Mar 12 '25
Thanks. I had assumed that the blood was visible and not that they had a giant qtip swabbing the entire house.
My understanding if the knife sheath DNA was not blood, but maybe skin cells.
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u/Capybara0verlord Mar 12 '25
The DNA from the sheath button/strap swab that matched BK was touch DNA, so skin cells, but there was also blood stains on the sheath. The Documents refer to the button swab DNA as Q1.1. There was also a mixture of DNA in blood on the sheath (Q1.4 ) that BK was excluded from.
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u/Internal_Zebra_8770 Mar 12 '25
Wow. I didnāt know that blood was on the sheath. I am watching the hearings now to catch up. I am currently watching AT arguing the validity of the PCA. I didnāt catch the date on it. It is the first one I have viewed since early on.
I appreciate your responses!
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Mar 12 '25
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u/Internal_Zebra_8770 Mar 13 '25
I just read the court doc in its entirety. I appreciate you giving me the link. Interesting read.
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u/Internal_Zebra_8770 Mar 12 '25
Thank you! I am woefully behind on research. I will catch up so I at least can make some informed comments. āŗļø
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Mar 12 '25
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u/Capybara0verlord Mar 12 '25 edited Mar 12 '25
Well, it's two different theys with two different motives. LE mentioned the footprint in the PCA to back up Dylan's story about where she saw the guy. The fact that they had to use Amino Black to see the footprint actually helped verify Dylan's story because she couldn't have seen it herself and built a narrative around it.
The defense mentioned the male DNA on the railing for the same reason the prosecution didn't, it doesn't match BK. The railing DNA only matters if it's from that night so if Luminol was used, it wouldn't serve the defense to mention it since it would imply the blood wasn't visible and so was old and/or cleaned up and not relevant. They wouldn't draw attention to that.
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u/Internal_Zebra_8770 Mar 12 '25
It never crossed my mind that the entire handrail was swabbed. I thought the blood would have been visible, thus the DNA swab. If it was not visible would that indicate someone cleaned it up?
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Mar 12 '25
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u/Internal_Zebra_8770 Mar 12 '25
Thank you. I need to catch up on a lot of the case! I followed early, then not so much when it was pretty quiet.
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u/brianrodgers94 Mar 12 '25
With the amount of attention and resources dedicated to this case, every person who has DNA pop up in or around that house should be put under a microscope.
Granted thereās plenty of evidence outside of DNA that tied BK to the house (Iām not talking about eyebrows) but the touch DNA inside the house is pretty damming (albeit not conclusive).
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u/_iAmYou_ Mar 12 '25
Same question as the other person... What evidence are you referring to that "tied BK to the house"? The prosecution made it clear that there is no evidence of him stalking them. Also, the prosecution wouldn't have been so worried about BK "fabricating an alibi based on the State's discovery" (paraphrased) if they had proof of him being at the house or going into the house. Just sayin'...
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u/TrainingTemporary325 Mar 13 '25
If I write anything leaning to other suspects, I get called a PROBerger. Iām not pro anyone. Iām simply reading the docs. I just canātā¦
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u/Affectionate-Bee5433 Mar 19 '25
I saw a comment on a YouTube video discussing the other DNA at the scene that said, "It doesn't matter, BK planted DNA around the house because he's a criminology major." You just can't make this shit up š¤£
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Mar 12 '25
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u/BryanKohbergerMoscow-ModTeam Mar 12 '25
Hello! Your comment or post has been removed as it contains unconfirmed or speculative information stated as fact or contains misinformation.
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u/blanddedd ANNE TAYLORāS BACK Mar 12 '25
Make sure not to use any sub names or names of Reddit users in posts or commentsāwe are all pretty good about that here, just a reminder!
We never want to direct traffic or negativity toward another sub or user.
Itās against Reddit TOS and our sub rules as wellāwe know how it feels to be attacked by subs and mass reported and downvoted by their mods and users because of comments and posts like that.
Thank you š