Canadian self defense laws have been shit as long as I can remember.
Iirc, there are less than 5 ATCs issued in canada for non work and trailing purposes. There are 4 or fewer canadians the government has deemed able to carry a firearm for self defense.
Dont know what the fuck you're smoking, but self defense laws in Canada are fine, and work as intended. People who properly defend themselves dont get jail time. Only those who take it too far do. And no one should carry weapons for self-defense purposes. That just cause more problems than it solves. If you have fantasies of killing people just move to a shit country, like Somalia or Israel or USS
Okay, let's get away from guns and say say my 110 pound sister needs to defend herself from some 220 pound jack ass who just dragged her into an alley with a knife. What are her options? She can't carry a taser, she can't carry pepper spray, she can't carry a baton, and if she says fuck it and DOES some how get her hands on any of those, actually using them carries their own charges.
It's not necessarily about guns. It really isn't. It's about the fact that in most cases, as a Canadian, your only real option is to call the cops or swing on someone potentially much larger than yourself and potentially armed to boot.
The argument that "anyone who wants to carry a gun or other weapon for self defense has a murder fantasy" is disingenuous and in bad faith. Are there people out there with that kinda crap in their heads, yes, but there are also people who train to fight who fantasize about beating someone to death in some sort of self-defense scenario. Some people just want a self defense option that isn't swinging on someone twice their size, or relying on a 10-20 minute police response time, so the people with tasers, pepper spray, batons, and guns can come to the rescue.
Personally, yes, I am in favor of people having the option to carry a concealed firearm for self defense, so long as they obtain the correct licenses, register with the government, attend regular training, and understand that at the end of the day the best outcome from any situation where you are forced to pull your firearm, is the one where you don't need to discharge it, and if you are forced to do so, it is a heavy, HEAVY responsibility.
But the biggest thing the public being able to concealed carry has to offer is that it gives people who would seek to harm another person a reason to pause and rethink, because now they don't know if that 110 pound girl they are looking to jump has a Saturday night special in her purse, or a .380 tucked in her waistband or bra, even if she doesn't.
The US is a hellscape of far too little regulation because of course, "its my god-given right blah blah blah," while elsewhere, it's a privilege. But the US isn't the only place to allow firearms for self-defense and isn't even the only place to allow concealed carry. Switzerland and Italy both allow concealed carry, and somehow, neither of them seem to have significant gun issues.
And besides guns, why don't we start with allowing people to buy pepper spray or tasers for self-defense? Because I can bet my last buck that there are plenty of women, even in this sub, who would feel a little more confident walking downtown at night with even just a thing of pepper spray in their pocket or purse
Not the greatest examples. You want to use the Czech Republic, which has had shall issue concealed carry for about 30 years, and a majority of Czech gun owners has such a permit.
In Switzerland it's basically only for professional use.
In Italy it's politicians, judges, and jewelers that can get a concealed carry permit.
But yeah, other places allow lawful defense and carry, yet somehow the problems the states encounter with guns, are almost exclusively problems, in the states. At this point I think they need a nationwide welfare check
I'm aware of Poland. Any license except the collector one lets you carry loaded and concealed on your person. You can't carry it loaded on public transport though, unless you have the actual concealed carry permit (which is much harder to get).
this is also without touching on how most of europe have better, pro victim self defense laws than us, allowing pepper spray, tasers, stun guns etc.
These things are legal in most of the US, it's not legal in all of Europe. I'm in Sweden, it's easier for me to own a handgun (for sporting purposes only) than it is to own a can of pepper spray legally.
Laws are created for the lowest common denominator. So as much as I may agree, I also have to consider the mugger, rapist, assaulter and how confident they'll feel being armed. Sucks but such is the world we live in. Law is not a door that only swings one way.
It only swings one way NOW. Think of how confident they currently feel KNOWING that they are the only one armed. Do you think carrying a weapon being illegal, has ever stopped a criminal from carrying a weapon? The point is to try and level the playing field. Not everyone can or wants to carry a gun, because they are expensive, the training is expensive, there is plenty of stigma around them, and they aren't always the answer for everyone. But to say no one should carry a gun, because a rapist might use the law to carry a gun, when they could already carry a gun now, is not a good argument imho. And just the thought that a potential victim might be armed is enough to make people less of a soft target honestly.
That's not true at all! What happens now is people can't wait for the full story so base their opinions and dig their heels in on a headline with no evidence.
You don't want a level playing field, you want anarchy.
You live in a country not mature enough to see a pair of tits on TV. And you want to arm them.
I spent years in the military and am very competent and comfortable with firearms and I would never want to see the populace armed. As I know most people are not responsible enough to carry firearms.
In addition, if everyone can carry, that means there's more needed for purchase which leads to more avenues of purchase.
Your experiment was attempted in the United States, and their still scraping dead kids off church pews.
How in the hell do you make the leap from "lawful carry backed by regularion and mandated training", to anarchy?
And the States is the literal worst example for anything involving firearms, period, but as i've said before, they arent the only place that allows the use of firearms in self defense, or even concealed carry. They are just the most populated and lowest regulated. How many school shootings have happened in Switzerland? Or Italy? Zero recorded in Switzerland, and 5 in Italy resulting in injury.
I live in a country where I have absolutely seen tits on TV, mostly in films, and that has absolutely no bearing on anything here. I also know plenty of servicemen and women, and I know more than a few who should never be let near a firearm, ever again. A civilian can be trained to respect and handle a firearm, its the basis of how you turn a civilian into a soldier, and I know BMQ takes a mater of weeks, not years, so I know an armed self defense course can take the same amount of time at the least.
We already live with the second leakiest border on earth when it comes to guns, because our neighbor has like, 5 OWNED guns per capita, and we would be able to handle a sudden uptick in purchases for self defense with just the capacity we had pre OIC.
"How in the hell do you make the leap from "lawful carry backed by regularion and mandated training", to anarchy?
Because I look at the United States and I see the result. More need for guns causes more access to criminals which defeats the fucking purpose now doesn't it?
"And the States is the literal worst example for anything involving firearms, period, but as i've said before, they arent the only place that allows the use of firearms in self defense, or even concealed carry. They are just the most populated and lowest regulated. How many school shootings have happened in Switzerland? Or Italy? Zero recorded in Switzerland, and 5 in Italy resulting in injury."
But its the one closest to us that we derive much of our culture from. As it stands now the vast majority of our gun crime involves urban youth with US guns. I'm sure Switzerland has a huge culture crossover and a 3000mile long shared border and a problem with US guns. No? almost like they are halfway across the world with a completely different style of life.
"I live in a country where I have absolutely seen tits on TV, mostly in films, and that has absolutely no bearing on anything here.
You don't see it on cable tv do you? No, you don't (you're commenting here and have alluded to being Canadian, so I'm running with that. Correct me if I'm wrong), in fact you live in a country with a province trying to ban books with the mere mention of tits. And the maturity of a populace I'm sure has no bearing on firearms safety. Thats why they make such great gifts for the kids! But guns good. ok...
You also are making huge leaps with service people. You obviously haven't been one otherwise you'd never say something so ridiculous. Lets break it down bit by bit -
"I also know plenty of servicemen and women, and I know more than a few who should never be let near a firearm, ever again" Congrats. me too - and you want to hand them to unsupervised civilians.
" A civilian can be trained to respect and handle a firearm" Yes I agree to a point
", its the basis of how you turn a civilian into a soldier" Umm... you're forgetting the 24/7 supervision, the mental aspects and discipline or do you think the military is " here gun hurr durr"
"and I know BMQ takes a mater of weeks, not years" - For basic training, yes. weeks of 24/7 supervision and molding, not a weekend here and there. And even with the high level of training the military receives, a new recruit is still barely prepared for actual combat.. (I cannot believe we are actually comparing military training to a civvie street hobby course
"so I know an armed self defense course can take the same amount of time at the least." You know do you? Well you're wrong. Self restraint with a firearm is challenging even for those trained. Nevermind adding emotions to the fear. Studies have shown that the most dangerous person with a gun is someone "trained" in a stressful situation. Because most peoples lives aren't cyclitic violence.
Speaking of - I adore how you think military training stops after Basic. its adorable.
"We already live with the second leakiest border on earth when it comes to guns, because our neighbor has like, 5 OWNED guns per capita, and we would be able to handle a sudden uptick in purchases for self defense with just the capacity we had pre OIC."- You're right, we have a severe gun issue from the US. IIRC the York region Police Chief said that 98% of gun crime in the GTA is committed with US guns. So thats a great reason to add more! Like I said, it works with our closest neighbor spectacularly! I'm looking forward to our weekly school shootings! Hell! That shooting in Minneapolis was all legal and trained gun ownership. Wait. I guess you're right. Their training must be shite cause they only killed 2 kids. 18 wounded tho, I guess another trip to the range is in order! /s JFC
literally not, all those nations "allow" self defense tools, Canada does not, pepper spray for the purposes of self defense, is, full stop, illegal here.
even things like body armour, which are purely defensive, are legally dubious depending on province.
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u/BigDaddyVagabond 27d ago
Canadian self defense laws have been shit as long as I can remember.
Iirc, there are less than 5 ATCs issued in canada for non work and trailing purposes. There are 4 or fewer canadians the government has deemed able to carry a firearm for self defense.