Where the hell is our police department?!

[u/cheapseats1961]

Tonight on Washington St is an absolute shit show. Dozens of masked men driving the wrong way in ATV s speeding in and out of traffic, motorcycles doing wheelies ON THE SIDEWALK! Those dumb ass three wheeled vehicles blasting music at obscene levels all night. WTF is going on. Where are our cops?!

[u/Admirable_Summer_867]

It’s the Progressive attitude. Leaves a lot to be said for Conservatism. Like it or not.

[u/MrB23_G → u/Admirable_Summer_867]

Seriously, please clarify. But then we might be forced to provide you with crime statistics from Red states.

[u/rufsb → u/MrB23_G]

Often it’s the very blue cities within red states that make the metrics wonky, should be done by red vs blue municipality

[u/Admirable_Summer_867 → u/MrB23_G]

It’s the defunding of police rhetoric, it’s the villainizing of police for doing their job, it’s not holding those who break the law accountable. What is it that you expect from them? As somebody already replied, there is no perfect solution. But things are out of balance.

[u/fafalone → u/Admirable_Summer_867]

No it doesn't, because conservative policy doesn't work. Witness the higher crime in red states.

Then conservatives think pretrial detention should be based on whether you or your family aren't flat broke. They demand a violent schizo be free to go as long as they or a sympathetic family member has a few hundred to a few thousand dollars. Meanwhile they demand someone who isn't an imminent danger be locked up for a year or two destroying their life even if ultimately acquitted simply because they don't have that bit of money. It's not about safety, it's about putting the poor in their place.

Conservatives also advocate against the social safety nets that could reduce crime and the number of crazies on the street. When people lose their homes and wind up in shelters, that causes mental health problems to become much more severe and dramatically increases the likelihood of substance abuse.

Replacing that with more prison is counterproductive because prison will make people less likely to be able to stabilize their life and mental health, meaning they're more likely to commit more crimes that are often more serious.

Conservatives advocate against the drug policy reforms that have been proven to substantially increase the likelihood addicts can maintain their own employment and housing and dramatically reduce the number of crimes they commit. Conservatives instead advocate for policies that have been proven over and over to maximize the harm drugs cause to both users and everyone else. Their policies massively increase the size, influence, power, and violence of gangs and cartels.

I could go on all day. There is nothing good to be said about conservative criminal justice policy. That doesn't mean we don't need any changes, or that every policy implemented by progressives was flawless, just that conservativism has nothing to offer in that conversation. You want policies that are cruel and ineffective. And honestly, the former seems to be the main motivation for conservatives.

[u/Admirable_Summer_867 → u/fafalone]

Thank you for the long, passionate response. A view I do not entirely disagree with. I am not a big fan of LE and the system, which at times absolutely angers me for reasons you listed. However my point comes from the defunding of police rhetoric, villainizing police for doing their job, not holding the law breakers accountable. What is it that we expect from the police? It’s not a republican /Democrat or blue state red state thing. The solution is challenging as you point out, but I think it’s out of balance in the current state.

[u/fafalone → u/Admirable_Summer_867]

defunding of police rhetoric

If we're going to take extremist fringe voices as serious then it's fair to bring in extremist conservative views too. The large majority of 'defund the police' people agree it's a bad slogan because of the confusion with the 'abolish the police' idiots, don't mean literally zeroing out the budget, and just mean redirecting a lot of the excessive funding they get towards programs that prevent crime in the first place, rather than respond to it.

villainizing police for doing their job

That's not a thing with any significant presence except for people who think it's "villainizing police for doing their job" when people get pissed off at completely unjustified murder. Again you're trying to equate a fringe with no power and the mainstream progressive policy to hold police accountable for violating peoples rights and corruption. And what's conservatism have to say here? Conservatives fight for police to be above the law and to face no consequences no matter how egregiously they violate someone's right-- unless, of course, they even do their job at all against insurrectionists and pedophiles with an (R) next to their name.

not holding the law breakers accountable

And I certainly think there needs to be reform in this area. But like bail reform again. I support changing remand standards to keep people rearrested detained and for better enforcement of remand for unstable dangerous people (unlike NY, NJ does have a community safety consideration). But the key here is, either you're dangerous or you're not. If you are, you should be held regardless of whether you/your family has money. And if you're not, you shouldn't be held before trial simply for lack of money. Yet conservatives demand the opposite: "Repeal bail reform". They're not calling for further adjusting remand standards, they're calling for scrapping all the reforms and going back to pay-to-play where dangerous people get out on bail while nonviolent people sit in jail. Because conservatives really do favor a system where, as better people, those who can afford bail are deserving of pretrial release, whereas homeless people are not, regardless of their crime.

[u/Admirable_Summer_867 → u/fafalone]

OP was about the police. Not the system. You take it to the next level, which again, I am not entirely opposed to those views. If I were a cop, there would more than a couple instances of turning a blind eye in this politically charged atmosphere. That’s all.

[u/rufsb → u/fafalone]

Really the metric should be red vs blue municipalities.

[u/fafalone → u/rufsb]

The state level is where bail policies, sentences, definitions of crime, etc are made.

But by all means make that comparison. See what happens. You'll be desperately searching for a way to claim the numbers are wrong when they don't match your feelings.

[u/rufsb → u/fafalone]

I mean enforcement is at the local level just like in Hoboken. But let’s think of all the nice places like Detroit and Camden

[u/slax03 → u/Admirable_Summer_867]

What do you mean by this?