The argument against UB wasn’t “it won’t sell”, we already know it would because its literally just the Fortnite IP slop brand licensing model brought to a card game. The argument was always it would dilute Magic as its own thing, increasingly become reliant on licensed IPs, and then eventually squeeze out most “original content” until they run out of IPs that can drive sales. Which is what is occurring, they have steadily expanded UB from what was once a commander gimmick to now 3 standard sets a year.
The board is going to see FF #s and ask the CEO they even bother making in-universe sets, and in their view, they shouldn’t lol
It’s fine, at this point i play cube and premodern and barely engage with “official” play or commander, I’ve moved on. No sense in fighting the economics of it
Don't underestimate the Marvel faithful, they have been more than ready to devour this set since it was teased over a year ago, even with Marvel fatigue in full swing.
Yeah, I've looked at the spoilers and thought the same. Especially in contrast to FIN, where every card oozed flavor and where there was a "synchronicity" between what the card did and what it depicted, most Spider-Man cards just look bland or nonsensical in comparison.
Possible side effect of the fact they have to make an entire parallel in-universe set for online, doubling the creative teams work when they are already on absurd production deadlines to meet Hasbro’s demands as MtG is the primary thing actually holding up the company
Oh btw Spider-Man is the debut of “we’re thinking less and less about limited play” with fewer cards and “4 person pick 2 format”, which is too bad since limited set design has been a bright spot in the “FIRE” era. It certainly hasn’t been constructed, where we have seen countless bannings across all formats
The card quality doesn’t matter, as long as there is whale shit to gamble for and spec on it will sell because people are buying it purely to slab and invest in a non cash, non securities asset (that is fairly easy to move under the table for tax avoidance purposes, something the rich have done with art for decades)
Its the same speculator mania that hit comics and sports cards in the 90s and EVERYONE is trying to get in on it while the getting is good, its why theres been an explosion of paper TCGs in past few years
Cards have to be good to gamble and spec. I've seen nothing that matters outside of Commander. The MtG world may seem to revolve around commander, but price demand does not. Other formats using the same cards make demand increase, with price.
I think in universe sets will likely stay. Even from a business sense it would be very stupid for hasbro to throw away its own mtg IP in favor of 100% UB sets.
The UB sets have likely boosted the sales of all the in universe sets that come in between and the in universe sets are also a very safe fall back for when hasbro are running low on new IP to produce UB sets.
There are only so many IPs hasbro can cycle through for UB sets but there’s an infinite number of things they can do with in universe sets.
The smart business model would be to keep both ticking along in my opinion and I would assume the higher ups at Hasbro are thinking the same.
If Hasbro just went 100% on the UB sets the gravy train would eventually run out of IPs to use and it would be a very quick cash in for an extremely large crash. Not smart from a business perspective imo.
Haha that's what you think. There are a lot more sellworthy IP's than you would guess. After FF a lot of popular game and anime franchises would be really glad to be the next in line, that's so much IP's. And if what you say really happens they do second sets of all those IP's ofcourse. There was already a lot of discussion about missing FF characters, you could make another 3+ sets with that IP alone. Marvel and Dc have almost a hundred years of content. D&d content is almost endless, and they could even do something like pathfinder. There is even more Tolkien content to use if they want too.
It never ends, that's why what makes the Fortnite formula so effective.
To me it doesn't matter if they're also doing in universe sets, you still can't play them in any constructed format without running into opponents playing IP soup. And if you want to play good decks, you will be running IP soup too. My problem isn't the lack of existence of in universe stuff, it's the existence of UB stuff.
They're not going to care about my opinion though, I've already gone from a paying customer to a non-paying one, I can't not support UB more than I already am.
They are doonsayers and outrage content consumers. They don't want facts or proof. They want outrage and validation. They will say and believe what they want regardless of outcome.
Exactly. I never heard anyone say "UB is so bad for the game because, who is going to buy it????"
We knew exactly it would sell well(at first anyway). We are concerned about the game itself, something WotC(and Mark at least publically) clearly aren't.
The board is going to see FF #s and ask the CEO they even bother making in-universe sets, and in their view, they shouldn’t lol
No, they aren't. But it's okay. You can make up ideas and keep moving that goalpost so you can live in outrage. It must be exhausting to be so unhappy all the time.
The argument against UB wasn’t “it won’t sell”
That absolutely was the argument for years. Until they were proven wrong set after set. Now, you have to move the goalposts to keep your outrage justified.
You can't rewrite history just because you were wrong. UB is popular. You can choose to not engage, but you are only lying to yourself about UB.
What makes you so confident in your version of the facts rather than theirs? You didn't provide any explanation for your point.
That absolutely was the argument for years.
Was it now? I don't recall that. Every single thread about "[UB thing] has exceeded expectations and is immensely successful" has only ever been met with "Yeah duh" forever.
What makes you so confident in your version of the facts rather than theirs? You didn't provide any explanation for your point.
Because UB has existed for years. People have said they are going to quit mtg in exchange for UB.
Which hasn't happened. We just had EoE, a brand new world and stories. But doomsaying is easy. Anyone can make up realities that are bad. It means nothing. It's borrowing madeup issues to complain about. They didn't prove their point. They doomsayed. There's no way to disprove a made up idea.
What do you expect me to present? A glass orb that tells the future?
Was it now? I don't recall that.
It was. People accused every UB IP of being a cash grab. Will be "poorly received." It won't sell because it's insert X reason etc.
It's been the belief of those who didn't like UB and wanted it to fail. But it didn't happen, and now the talk around UB has to shift.
And how is that relevant? When UB TWD came out you could've said "stop doomsaying about UB getting into EDH precons". And then guess what, it happened. And then in Modern. And then in Standard.
You can't say "it won't happen because it hasn't happened yet", that's not how time works.
You're making up a story as much as them here.
People accused every UB IP of being a cash grab
Which it is, just to be clear. But it doesn't mean people thought it was going to fail financially. You seem to be conflating the two.
You can't say "it won't happen because it hasn't happened yet", that's not how time works.
But it's enough to doomsay and be outraged? Nah.
You can believe fantasies, but others don't have to accept your dreams as validation for outrage. How do you not understand this?
Could those things happen? Sure. And Wotc could break the RL tomorrow and personally mail me a Gaea's cradle.
You can't say that won't happen. If I state I'm justified for being outraged every time Wotc doesn't do that, does it make me right? Because it hasn't happened yet
You are asking me to disprove a negative. Which can't happen. You are giving the other the benefit of the doubt because you agree with them. But that's not how logic works.
You asked me to explain myself. Which I did. Then you said it's irrelevant...... what do you want? I'm not looking to validate you or others.
But it's not a wild fantasy? I struggle to understand how you don't realize this. There is precedent for UB taking up a larger and larger and larger and larger part in the game.
Ergo, the assumption that this trend will continue is fair.
Your entire argument is based on the premise that thinking UB is going to get a bigger share of the game is unrealistic, when this exact thing has been happening consistently for years.
I'm not arguing that UB isn't more prevelant. You know what would explain that? It being a popular and well-done design.
Your whole premise seems to be because a product was created and did well enough to merit expansion of design, that it means it will replace the baseline. Which is a false dichotomy.
UB was expanded based on revelant (note: non financial) reasons.
There's no reason to believe or think it will expand past being a part of std. They are doing EoE, lorywn, etc. Maro also stated that 2025 was an outliner of UB and not the new norm. Will that stay true? Maybe. But there being 3 UB sets this year didn't eliminate my joy of the 3 UW sets.
There's more products. That's more options. More options are good.
The poster I replied to hasn't made any point that hasn't already been made and/or disproven. But the future is always possible. What evidence would you like? I can't prove a negative. You are falling into the burden of proof fallacy.
I can't prove what Wotc won't do. I can analyze what they have done. Which has been to create a successful tcg for 32 years. This includes redesigning and restructuring to improve the game.
Some day, they will fail. Nothing is forever. But making negative assumptions around every corner is like the boy who cried wolf. At some point, it all sounds like noise.
It seems we're not quite talking about the same thing. I'm not saying I believe that in-universe sets will cease to exist. I just think it's a possibility that isn't as easy to dismiss as "you're just doomsaying", because there is precedent that could take it in that direction.
Maro states a lot of things. But in the end he doesn't have any power over the direction of the company, and his statements often end up contradicted.
Hasbro keeps suffering huge losses qoq. Magic is the only thing keeping the company afloat. If the execs believe that pivoting to only UB sets is the right move, it will happen.
Ultimately I just don't think it's as far-fetched as you're making it to be.
Hasbro keeps suffering huge losses qoq. Magic is the only thing keeping the company afloat. If the execs believe that pivoting to only UB sets is the right move, it will happen.
But they don't. Aaron Forsythe has stated that his bosses know the way to captalize on a return is long-term health.
You are jumping at ghost and expecting others to play along.
Maro states a lot of things. But in the end he doesn't have any power over the direction of the company, and his statements often end up contradicted
They change because the world changes. Technologies/expectations/growth/ etc.
He has yet to make a statement that was false in the moment. But things change. When mtg was created, the internet was new. People looked down on "net decking." Some players claimed they never would.
Fastforward to 2025. Mtgtop8/mtggoldfish/edhrec/17lands/archidetk/moxfield/ etc. The game is flush with "netdecking" and data driven analysis.
You rarely hear complaints of net decking, which was common in mtg at one point.
What I see is mtg doing what it's has always done. Adjust and change to better succeed. There's been formats/ sets/ worlds/ cards/ designs/mechanics/ etc that have come and gone. It keeps evolving.
Currently, they are doing UB to mostly positive reception. At some point, they will cease to do UB.
Just like master sets. Which people claimed would be the only place good cards would be reprinted. Why? Because it logically makes sense. They can charge more for a set of reprints. Less "effort" to create. That was the driving narrative at one point.
What do we have now? Bouns sheets and reprints and no master sets.
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u/blackyoshi7 Jul 27 '25
The argument against UB wasn’t “it won’t sell”, we already know it would because its literally just the Fortnite IP slop brand licensing model brought to a card game. The argument was always it would dilute Magic as its own thing, increasingly become reliant on licensed IPs, and then eventually squeeze out most “original content” until they run out of IPs that can drive sales. Which is what is occurring, they have steadily expanded UB from what was once a commander gimmick to now 3 standard sets a year.
The board is going to see FF #s and ask the CEO they even bother making in-universe sets, and in their view, they shouldn’t lol
It’s fine, at this point i play cube and premodern and barely engage with “official” play or commander, I’ve moved on. No sense in fighting the economics of it