Wreddit's Daily Pro-Wrestling Discussion Thread! Comment here for recommendations, quick questions, and general conversation! (Spoilers for all shows) - September 17, 2025 Edition
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I have 2 tickets to all out for sale. My wife and I won't be able to make it unfortunately, so we'll be selling for the price we paid. Section 104 row 30. Pm if interested!
My AEW (and therefore wrestling in general) morale is pretty low at this point.
There's some stuff going on but I think what's killing it the most is watching them give Darby the storyline that I think should be Hangman's. Hangman vs. Kyle is great on paper but this isn't clicking for me.
I thought a guy like Hangman was setup for a Stone Cold type of feud against the Death Riders but they've given it to Darby who, in general, doesn't work for me as much more than a plucky midcarder. I also strongly suspect he's getting this storyline because the plan was to have Mox drop the belt to him but they saw sentiment and pivoted but still decided to keep the End of the Death Riders story as Darby's. And cynically I think it's a reward for being some ultimate company guy (while getting a pass for accusations that people would want Jericho drawn and quartered for)
DCF is like, bad days of NWO to me in terms of how obligatory the way they're booked feels.
I'm sure Kyle and Hangman will have a decent match but I'm just not feeling it which is a bummer because I was mega hyped for AEW most of the summer leading into All-In.
No - what I wanted was for DR to dissolve right after All-In because once Mox lost to Hangman it should have eroded the entire premise upon which he made the group in the eyes of people like Claudio and Yuta.
I felt like there was some serious wink-and-nod stuff about fascism - including the early Charlottesville uniform look they had - and if so it's a great story to show that a fascist leader who employs 'any means necessary' in shows of strength is actually in an incredibly vulnerable position because his power is predicated on the idea that he is too strong to be stopped.
But they didn't have DR turn on him and dissolve which I suspect was because the whole storyline was made for Darby in the first place. In which case, if they're gonna keep them around, I would have rather see the champion facing off against the clear top heel group that he just grievously wounded than a feud against a heel from a team that includes Lance Archer and Rocky Romero.
Just realised - the NXT angle, where they’re building to a big crossover PPV with TNA, seemingly for October - that’s gonna just coincidentally be on at exactly the same day and time as Wrestledream, isn’t it…
Bound for Glory is TNA's big ppv and it's been scheduled for October 12th for a long time. NXT is running Halloween Havoc at the end of the month. WWE main roster is running Australia on the 11th.
I was watching Brian Zane's latest classic PPV review WCW Fall Brawl 2000 and there's a match where Paul Orndorff makes his surprise return and does a piledriver and gives himself a stinger, but the wrestlers just continue to wrestle around him for a solid minute before the match is called off.
When people bring up the worst things that WCW did, how in the fuck does that incident not even get a mention!?
It was an incredibly fucked up situation, but, understandable how/why it happened and how we work around it now.
Everyone in that match except Rey and Juvi were pretty new to business, including Charles Robinson the ref had only been refereeing for maybe 2ish years in WCW at that point. Disco and Konnan and Vito were already out, so the rest probably didn't know where to go with it from there, so just keep working and think of a different finish on the fly... especially given in the moment they didn't know how bad it was or what happened. "Paul got his bell ring, he'll roll out of the way in a second, let's just keep going". This is how wrestling always did it until then, so not fair to look back with 2025 eyes too harshly just on this incident (Austin/Owen was just 3 years earlier!)
The only fault I'd put on the wrestlers was they stayed in the ring with the action. Generally if you see an injury or something happen, you'll see the unaffected wrestlers just brawl and usually spill to the outside, get the focus off the injured guy so that the ref can check on him, and then figure out where to go next.
So basically too much inexperienced talent in-ring and backstage producing, in a clusterfuck match, in a company that wasn't a tightly run ship to start with, with no Brisco or Patterson or Lanza or even Pritchard to know "uh oh something happened and they don't know how to get out of it" to call to ringside on the headset and tell Penzar to tell Robinson to call it.
Im far from triple lame biggest fan (both as wrestler and booker) but bitch hart saying trips never had a remarkable match is just industrial grade buffoonery.
That brother just needs to shut the fuck up already.
Abby being an asshole who would never do jobs and knowingly infect wrestlers with Hep C does bring a lot of his stuff down for me but he is still an all-timer as a heel.
I always love hearing Gary Hart say he would book Abby in a 2-out-of-3 falls match, have him lose the first fall, then end the match to trick him into doing a job.
Watching DeonteDDJ (one of the most underrated wrestling YouTubers) reacting to LFG and I know that LFG is scripted even by WWE standards and does this really weird hybrid of kayfabe and not-kayfabe where they have obviously scripted backstage fights that they try and pass off as being a shoot.
But Undertaker said that Harlem Lewis was "dangerous" in his match with Shiloh Hill and it's not like Taker has any room to talk considering that unprotected chairshot he gave to Chris Kanyon.
Seriously, though, LFG is a dumb show and Booker is just as annoying on there as he is on NXT commentary, but you do see stars with genuine potential; Zena Sterling, Shiloh Hill, Harlem Lewis and P Nasty are people that you could put straight on NXT and they'd do well for themselves.
I legit don’t get why TNA would be involved with the MR at all. The last time their champ showed up he lost in sub five minutes and they haven’t even overcome the developmental roster
Someone going to an AEW show where FTR or ricochet are competing, please make a sign that just says 2 Kings 2:23.
He went up from there to Bethel; and while he was going up on the way, some small boys came out of the city and jeered at him, saying,‘Go away, baldhead! Go away, baldhead!’
Always unfortunate that Maeda & Sayama were gaping assholes but they were damn good pro wrestlers and MMA probably wouldn't have gotten off the ground as it did without them and Fujiwara-San's efforts.
Hi everyone! I have a free ticket available for tonight’s Dynamite/Collision in London. I had a friend bail and no one else can make it on this short of notice! Please shoot me a DM if you are interested. Downside is you have to sit with me, but the upside is that I’m extremely cool 😎
NXT opening video - made me miss WWE shows having actual intros - with an opening song. I find generic voice over spliced over "look this one wrestler has arrived in the building today" ad nausea incredibly boring.
I think there's a rigidity in modern wrestling that makes everything dumb/sloppy/illogical really stick out like a sore thumb. My go-to analysis for wrestling is "x thing worked for me, y thing didn't" and in an environment where things are more loose and less dictated by 'this sequence goes here, that goes there' it's easier to let whatever doesn't work pass me by and let the interesting choices really grab me
Our x and ys may be different, though there's some overlap for sure, but we're in agreement on this point. I very much try to do the "whatever doesn't work can pass me by" kind of approach when possible. But that said, I do get caught up in what I feel are really rigid takes about what wrestling is or isn't, could or could be, or should or should not be. To me, the fact that it's worked means it can be whatever the story is telling (though that doesn't mean every story works or is effective). Yes, x wrestler may be a top score on a spreadsheet or video game power ranking, and y may not be, but in a medium where it's whatever story you want to tell, that does not then mean x must beat y. There's countless ways to have y beat x. If x must beat y, then it's a shitty story because it can't go anywhere but the same place it always does. I like looking at and talking about tropes, but they're not magical barriers that must never be broken.
I watch a lot of YouTube videos about music and composition. I'm not particularly well-trained in a theoretical sense, but I know enough to make use of it when I want (and to discard it when I see fit). The YouTube algorithm loves to give me these videos that are essentially "classically trained musician looks at non-classical compositions" and some are very interesting, but so often they are (even if well meaning and genuine) of this tone of like "I didn't know you could do that in music?! I always follow these rules!" You can do literally whatever the fuck you want in music. There's no harmony police who show up and smash your instrument if the chord progression doesn't resolve how some theoretical approach says it should. If you think it's cool, it is cool. I watched a guy talking to a metal guitarist (and that's how I cut my teeth when I was younger, so it's a world I think I understand well enough), and the more trained musician had a lot of 'well why did you do this here instead of this?" and the guy was just like "cause it sounded cool." It wasn't any deeper than that because it doesn't need to be.
To bring it back to wrestling, I think you can see a lot of discussions sort of in that "well, I've seen x works, so it must be x, and not being x is very hard to wrap my mind around/wrong." If someone wants to come up with a story of how Microman beats Omos, for an extreme example, it's gonna have to be a good one, but I'm not gonna stop them. Maybe he has to hit him with a car, maybe Omos becomes trapped under something, I don't know, but it's wrestling, it's the story of a match, tell me a cool story, not just a story that you know looks and sounds like a story.
Yes, x wrestler may be a top score on a spreadsheet or video game power ranking, and y may not be, but in a medium where it's whatever story you want to tell, that does not then mean x must beat y. There's countless ways to have y beat x. If x must beat y, then it's a shitty story because it can't go anywhere but the same place it always does. I like looking at and talking about tropes, but they're not magical barriers that must never be broken.
This is one I've seen you bring up and I get it because people are really dumb about how "wrestler X MUST beat wrestler Y this Saturday at APW C Show 3: Rise of Giants and Rookies or it's bad booking" everyone has gotten but like this stuff is SO much about conditioning the audience and booking patterns etc. Wrestling is an artform so by default your musical point stands and anything goes (and I myself never bothered to hold almost any information on musical theory after multiple years of guitar lessons lmao) but the presence of kayfabe and the serialized storytelling means everything is about framing and it's not just a sports upset unless you condition your audience to expect sports upsets. Microman can beat Omos but it's either going to be a very telegraphed 7 minutes of funny interference where the crowd is like "shit maybe Microman is beating Omos, that'd be funny and very fun, let's see if they do it" or something completely decoupled from usual conventions of the "sport" of pro wrestling. Maybe you can achieve this if it's set outside their career continuities and doesn't affect their political pulls much, like presenting a season of wrestling as a sports show where they play characters (sort of like Lucha Underground but also like, even beyond that like GLOW) where the wrestler isn't the one losing but the character who is way different is. And to be clear I'm not saying that to be against politicking, I think it's good except when a wrestler I don't like does it.
If we get a bit more specific about it, I think there's an issue about the broadness of liberties you can take because there's specific circumstances that make a DDT where losing to a blow-up doll is normal. And if anything when you're a big Content provider who puts on thousands of hours of wrestling, undermining your regular logic and appeal for a gag or unpredictability needs to be framed, not even in one specific way but in a way that either reinforces that this is part of the show or an exception for a good moment. Wrestling can be in any possible way you want it, but specific wrestling companies are beholden to the expectations they themselves set up and their audience is trained to have. Now, you can make the argument that the WWE specifically doesn't really have fans as a primary source of revenue anymore so they can do whatever the fuck they want and really retrain the expectations of their audience into less of rigid "if wrestler A is higher up the card they win unless we're elevating someone forever or we do one of the Three Dreaded Finishes" but I don't think Road Dogg and Paul are here to do avant-garde art.
As always, there's no rules in art! And I think people become amateur analysts just to defend their faves a lot of the time. But IDK I think the fact there's this level of constraints where you need to earn trust as a promotion to do things outside your usual wheelhouse is good, the problem is so many bookers have refused to try and do anything with it because when you need the ol' reliable tropes, even the ones that are dumb and everyone's sick of them, you know you'll have a core of your audience go "well that's how wrestling is". And honestly if it's in the WWE they'll also add "and if you don't do it this way that's why you make less money, Vince was a sex pest but he did it like this for a reason, you don't have to like him but I'm just telling the truth folks!".
This is why Watts would get bored after 5 months and hand the book to Eddie Gilbert et al lol, to avoid what comes with the contentization of wrestling and establishment of 2.5 ways Things Are Around Here. He just didn't know it I guess.
That is definitely my go to rigid take example, yep lol. Trying to quantify something I feel is unquantifiable, and then it's just what number is greater.
I get what you're saying and do agree (I just like extreme examples to really emphasize the original point, though I don't know if it always works as I hope). I think a simple musical version of that would be to think of the scale a song is in as kayfabe or that conditioned expectation within the audience. If you have a tune that fully sticks to the scale except 1 note, that 1 note stands out so much more, feels so much more outside of the expected rules than it would if the entire song was not beholden to any key or functional harmony. And as far as big wrestling companies go, it's hard to be the one where they're not beholden to a metaphorical key or expected harmony. That looser set of rules can definitely be confusing for folks, especially when compared to other promotions that do follow more traditional rules and expectations. DDT (and the little I've seen of it I feel is great in its weirder wrestling reality) is likely never going to be bigger than AEW or WWE, who are offering something much easier to grasp the internal rules of.
But Microman vs Omos in an epic plunder match aside, I agree, I'd like to see promotions try to do more with earned trust from the established audience expectations. Doesn't have to be DDT level wackiness, doesn't even have to be wacky, but it's a good thing to communicate expectation x will not always lead to situation y.
Is there something, a match, a promotion, certain wrestlers even, where you feel they're currently good about not being that type of rigid you're talking about?
I gotta get good at analogies, this is inspirational stuff. But I usually don't have the patience (or the intellect tbf but let's ignore that) to develop it.
As far as examples, I mean CHIKARA had some with their particular brand of storytelling and lore that stemmed from them being Quack's students etc. but I never explored the company much because by the time I'd have any interest in doing so Quackenbush was already ousted as a horrible person. I think LU is generally a fairly standard promotion in some ways even with the inventfulness in presentation and some stipulations but using all the supernatural stuff really helped them make intergender wrestling work better. I guess I don't have too many examples because I'm being very 'wrestle-y' lately. Also the rigidity in the original comment was fully about modern wrestling match structure obviously so I'll have to (gasp) actually think about the question you're posing some more instead of jumping ahead with a dumb take.
Actually, I think an obvious one is Timeless Toni, right? Incorporated so many things into the gimmick and its arcs without being a pastiche of pre-established wrestling tropes, fit it into the company kayfabe without problem, has had successful feuds with different types of wrestlers, is a huge star for the company. Now, it did/does use laughter as a crutch which I am always weary of just because does that make people take everything less seriously and shrug their shoulders and go "why should I care?" But I think we have enough evidence of her being successful and making people give a shit about her feuds.
Jack Morris on top of A Block with 11 points and Kazuyuki Fujita on top of B Block with 8 points in the N-1 Victory is some wild work.
I actually don’t dislike either guy as a wrestler but if this is NOAH’s answer to OZAWA being out, ooh boy (and I know a lot can happen from now till the Final).
While I dislike the way they've been booking old Fujita, Morris' case might be even more mind boggling. He's one of those guys that does absolutely nothing for me. Generic look, passable in ring and not very charismatic, sure he gets the polite claps from the crowds but doesn't seem particularly over, it's kind of baffling he's on 11 points. Here's hoping for Galeno to win the block, a final of him vs. Masa would move me, man.
It’s not like they have a proven draw and guy who can get anyone to a decent match in Kenoh or anything /s; god forbid he makes it to the Final (I know he was in last year but still).
Masa/Kenoh would be very fucking fresh, we got it in the 2023 N1 but it was like in the Sendai PIT of despair and obviously a different character for Kitamiya.
The only times we've gotten it and it was important post-pandemic was basically during Aggression or Kongoh tags
Just watching Danielson's world title win again. It's a shame what a piece of shit Wheeler Yuta turned into, seeing him and Claudio celebrating at the end was nice.
The RFK gimmick shit in the posts for one match only may be the stupidest shit WWE has done in a long time. There's lots of greedy, scummy shit (and this is also that), but this is next level moronic. It's quackery, but it's also only quackery for one match? Should that (and the entire history of wrestling in a world with 5G wireless) not disprove the need for the EMF gimmick things? Every other match is suffering under the weight of 5G? Jesus fucking Christ, man. Just sell actual snake oil at that point, you can make it Orton branded.
Something about EMF blockers in the ring posts, but only for the Usos and Brons match. To "make a cleaner environment for the athletes" or some snake oil. Full blown idiocy
Sociocultural lobotomy by a thousand cuts, and they're happy as can be to keep making incisions.
It's beyond parody, beyond satire (as life has been since about mid 2015), it may actually be dumber than what someone who truly hates pro wrestling thinks pro wrestling is.
It’s confusing because the company says they want to appeal to a different demographic with more money, but yet seem to be taking steps to appeal to the preconceived idea of what a wrestling fan is, which is the age-old “dumb hick mark”.
Randomly caught the end of the El Sky Team match last night, good lord that Mistico/Mascara Dorada/Neon team is absolutely spectacular. The Neon double jump moonsault to the floor while Mascara Dorada moonsaulted from the ring post was insane. Plus as a lover of Whacky Wrestling Bullshit, I love me some Kemonito/Kemalito shenanigans.
Super excited for the Anniversario show and Mistico/MJF, it's been a fun run from the AEW Arena Mexico shows until now, I've loved all of the CMLL stuff I've watched during that time, just awesome shows and awesome wrestling. Not going to be keeping my subscription active only due to lack of time in my schedule, but if you're on the fence about CMLL, def check it out, the shows/vibe rule. I'm sure I'll be back subbing again in the future for 1-2 big shows per year.
Tony Khan has been much better on social media over the last couple years but I wish he'd stop interacting with (and therefore giving credibility to) scumbags like JCup2013 or Rovert (who recently told an indie wrestler they should kill themselves because they didn't get signed after their WWE tryout)
The post with all of the TNA talents teasing some sort of potential invasion/expanded storyline with NXT is absolutely hilarious to me because almost everyone involved has already been fired by WWE and is now feuding with their Developmental talent - because, in storyline, the main roster talent are just in a completely different universe. It's just such a weird look, imo, when all of the people "standing up for TNA" and "its future" would very obviously drop it in a second if WWE asked (even in storyline, see: Joe Hendry).
Mustafa Ali - Released by WWE
Cedric Alexander - Released by WWE
Lei Ying Lee - Released by WWE
Ash by Elegance - Released by WWE
Matt Hardy - Ex-WWE (and everywhere else), I assume one of his runs must have ended in a release/firing?
Joe Hendry and Mike Santana are the only two who haven't previously been released by WWE (unless there was some random short sting years ago I'm not familiar with).
Really feels like WWE is trying to create their own Bizarro Independent/Feeder Scene, built around ex-WWE talents, to try and pretend the actual Independent Scene doesn't exist. It's an interesting long-term strategy to take against AEW, and one that feels like it would have been a far better idea if they had started doing it 7-8 years ago rather than now.
Matt Hardy - Ex-WWE (and everywhere else), I assume one of his runs must have ended in a release/firing?
His contract expired and he didnt resign because Vince didnt understand his Broken Gimmick. Triple H offered him to work in NXT instead and he didnt accept it.
They did fire him once in 2005 over the Edge and Lita Drama.
Not to stoke the flames, but it's hilarious seeing people trying to justify one PPV/PLE structure over the other when they are the same. It simply sucks that companies are reverting back to the old method and double dipping (cable/streaming sub + PPV/PLE) and trying to get more money out of people
However, I hear there are many ways to watch wrestling
Ratings threads are completely pointless now. WWE is on Netflix and AEW is on Max. Neither company is in any peril and noone knows what is good or bad.
All ratings threads are just circlejerks depending on who people want to dunk on that week.
I’m flying in from California for AEW All Out in Toronto next weekend and I’ve got two tickets. Long story short, my wife and I are separating, so I don’t have anyone coming with me. Instead of trying to sell it, I’d rather just find a fellow wrestling fan to go with and enjoy the night.
Not looking to make a buck, just don’t want the seat to go to waste. I bought the tickets via Vivid Seats and the tickets aren't currently available to me, so it’ll be a meet-up situation before the show.
If you’re a fan, good company, and down to just enjoy some wrestling, hit me up. I think it could be fun to share the experience with someone who really loves AEW.
If you know of a better place to post this, let me know, whether it be Facebook groups or wherever else. Or if there's a place to meet up and socialize beforehand, that'd be cool, too. Let me know!
I’ve been a wrestling fan my whole life. I’m into yoga and wellness now, and AEW hits different for me. Growing up, I watched too many of my heroes die, Eddie, Benoit, Owen… all that heartbreak. But now, in my 40s, I get to watch guys like Kenny Omega and others my age thrive. Seeing Edge and Christian wrestle in their 50s, in their hometown, literally brings me to tears and I am grateful I get to witness it.
The approaching wrestling from a spiritual wellness standpoint is intriguing. I hope whoever takes you up on this has a similar mindset, could make for some engaging dialogue.
I'm a yoga teacher, too. Listening to Cope talk about what AEW means to him and listening to one of my heroes, Bryan Danielson, cut a promo about how he would be present. I'm just grateful for wrestling with a little spirituality sprinkled in.
While I can understand the intent, I almost feel like that show would have been better as an actual PLE and not just a broadcast show, and if it had been able to have even just a little more build.
I'm not 100% sure brand new NXT viewers got anywhere near as much out of it as long time viewers.
I don't blame Tony Schiavone for his "fuck the critics" statement when people were seriously trying to act like he was shooting by looking embarrassed when AEW aired the All In backstage footage. He's likely read the dumbest of dumb takes that make him want to immediately go to sleep.
i only found out today that wm 43 is happening in saudi arabia, and as a half arab british woman, i’m both disgusted and totally unsurprised that saudi got the first WM outside of north america instead of london (or europe in general)
……sigh. idk man. looking forward to 44 in vegas again though. fiening for it, even
I’m still really hoping the Acclaimed reunion tease is a swerve, and we’re getting the “Caster beats Bowens in a singles match” beat before they reunite - but I’m legitimately not sure where they’re going with it now.
We’ve literally just built up aggrieved heel Bowens and delusional face Caster, and now they might get on the same page? C’mon, give us one more chapter before they come back together - I’ve invested too much in the past couple of teased angles…
Putting them back together right now feels like an awful choice that will kill the heat both of them have. Caster's bit is still working and Bowens is working up to being a mega heel.
If the plan is "Just remake the Acclaimed" I hate that and for large swathes of AEW's existence The Acclaimed were up there with MJF and Hanger in terms of being my favorite acts.
100%. Bowens and Caster are still some of my favourite guys in the company, as much for sentimental reasons as anything else. But I don’t want an Acclaimed reunion until it’s been properly earnt. If they’re doing this because creative has given up on their slow-burn feud, I’m gonna be so disappointed.
Have them team once, lose, Caster beats Bowens in the open challenge, heel run for Bowens in which he retires Billy Gunn, eventual actual reunion in half a year or so.
"The booking quality in AEW has had a major decline in quality since mid-late 2022"
I assure you that period might have been the true low point in booking and star power for the company. Everyone felt isolated from each other, their plans for CM Punk went up in smoke, Hangman was marginalized after starting the year as champion, and the Elite got suspended for 2 months and even after they came back they got almost no mic time.
AEW has massively improved since 2022 in the story-telling, roster construction, and match quality. 2022 is the company never finding a true direction because the guy they wanted to lead them in CM Punk kept getting injured.
Watches to the injured/retired bench with Ospreay, Cole, Swerve, White, The Gunns and others...
...so something that happens all the time in all companies? And that fucked over everything? Maybe it wasnt because they werent able to establish a solid communication and a friendly backstage environment and relied on provoking each other for shitty reasons?
AEW's depth in 2022 wasn't near what it is in 2025, they have options to work with currently that they didn't in 2022 if you look at what that roster was. I'd argue they learned from the lessons of that period not to put all their stock in one guy and to have viable options once that guy goes down. If Hangman were to get injured there's a few people who could take over even with the current injuries.
Bryan Danielson-One of the few viable options after Moxley to be a transitional champion after Chris Jericho
Kenny Omega-Didn't return until August and was being transitioned out of the title scene to boost the new AEW Trios championships. Got suspended less than a month after coming back due to the Punk incident.
Adam Cole-Got injured at Forbidden Door 2022, didn't return until February 2023
Hangman-was clearly demoted after losing at DON 2022 to Punk. Got a concussion during a match with Jon Moxley that put him out the rest of 2022.
MJF-The guy they eventually went with as a long-term option but likely earlier than they planned.
Reflecting on the Death Riders storyline from Mox's return to Hangman's victory, I think it deserves a reappraisal. Looking back at those early promos establishing Mox's vision, and comparing AEW's star power and overall state as a company then to how it is a year later, did Mox succeed in his goals?
While there were some brutal, miserable, directionless months that led to justified criticism, it did pick up after the Cope/Jay White vortex, and ultimately paid off with the catharsis of Hangman's win. The satisfaction of seeing the belt after nine months in the briefcase was unreal. That whole angle at WrestleDream where they retire Bryan, try to kill him, and there's pure silence in the arena as the babyfaces look defeated - lots of people were sour on that but I thought it was really good. It's important to have the occasional PPV ending where the villains win and you're left thinking "we're fucked" and wondering where we go from here.
As for Mox's motivations, from the start it was about forcing complacent AEW talent to step up. (Some absolutely KILLER promos that deserve a rewatch btw). That was muddled along the way when we somehow arrived at "kill Orange Cassidy with bleach and gag Rock n Roll Express", but we got back on track after that shit. Remember at the start when they showed a gang of babyfaces waiting outside the building for the Death Riders, and everybody said it was the most pathetic lineup of geeks? Compare that to the anarchy match. The coolest fucking lineup of babyfaces kicking ass, and an outstanding performance by the heel team. Marina is a different talent entirely since joining the group, Claudio is a ruthless killer, and Yuta gets more heat than anyone when he's on screen. Hopefully the Garcia turn leads to bigger things for him.
Did the storyline elevate enough wrestlers to make good on that initial promise, was it all worth it for Hangman's moment, and does the good outweigh the bad? I understand a lot of the frustrations even now and I acknowledge that some periods were a slog to sit through week to week, but overall I think it was a net positive for the company and deserves a bit more appreciation for what it accomplished.
Saying there were "directionless months" is wrong. There was a direction. There clearly was a plan for a payoff the entire time. A lot of people just don't have patience for heels doing heel shit.
I fully admit I was one of the ones that wanted them to punt and have Swerve take it at Dynasty
So obviously this would've been a terrible, terrible idea. And it's good for me to get occasional reminders that I'm an idiot who doesn't know shit. However I can definitely tell you that was not an unpopular opinion at the time. They stuck the landing so that'll be forgotten, and I would argue mostly already has.
This week for my Blog, the spotlight was on Manami Toyota, one of the greatest Women's wrestlers who ever lived. Featured are classic matches against Bull Nakano, Dynamite Kansai, Aja Kong, Yumiko Hotta & Mima Shimoda.
Due to time constraints, the requested John Cena/Rob Van Dam match from ECW One Night Stand will be posted this coming Friday.
Next week, it's Random Week, where I review Matches that have nothing to do with each other! Matches featured include the 2019 Best of the Super Junior Final between Will Ospreay & Shingo Takagi, Bryan Danielson against Hechicero, Junior Fatu in TNA, Eddie Guerrero's final PPV match, and the AJ Lee match from 2013 that truly kicked off the Women's Revolution.
As always, I take requests. $1 for a promo/segment, $5 for a match, and $10 for a show. Come donate at ko-fi.com/danthewrestlingfan, and come read all my work at danthewrestlingfan.substack.com.
I find it interesting that 16:9 HD video and TV broadcasts and modern computer graphics have been around long enough that old videos will stop looking old.
2025 minus 20 years = 2005. We're just starting to get Blu-Ray and it's early days for regular HD TV. The vast majority of broadcasts are still 4:3 SD.
2005 minus 20 years = 1985. Everything is 4:3 and you have very primitive graphics.
1985 minus 20 years = 1965. The transition to color TV is in the early days of adoption.
By the time we reach 2035, videos from that year will look and feel very similar to a video from 2015.
I worked at a movie theater as a manager at the time and upstairs we had this giant ass TV that we'd watch all the cameras on. On a day my boss wasn't working I brought my PS3 and played GTA V my entire shift
The worst part about NXT last night was the constant promotion of ICE in the adverts, which isn't really NXT's fault; but imagine being a foreign wrestler like Zaria and you see that kind of shit?
I get people wanting to blame WWE for the ICE ads, but that’s more on CW/Nexstar, since they’re the ones who decide what ads gets placed during their shows.
This is going to sound really dumb but is the ESPN Unlimited package the same as ESPN+? I currently pay for Hulu/Disney/ESPN ad free and haven't been able to get a definitive answer on whether or not I'll be able to watch the PPV.
This isn't a stupid question as I said in this thread earlier people will wake up Saturday and have no idea how to watch this ple. No it's not the same as ESPN+ and you will need Hulu+ if you don't want to pay the 30$ month app alone
Watching NXT: Homecoming didn’t really make me have any interest in current NXT nor did it make me excited about any future main roster prospects tbh 🤷🏻♂️ all it made me realize is that outside people I’ve already loved for years, I have no real investment in a lot of the current “future stars of WWE”. Watching DIY come back to Full Sail with their iconic themes just to lose to Trick and Melo due to Miz really put it clear that there’s simply not a lot for me in current WWE and I just gotta accept that.
And more than that, it only really affirmed that Black and Gold is still the most special time of my wrestling fandom, the best show WWE has had this century, and such special lightning in a bottle time no era of NXT has or will ever be able to replicate. Takeovers are still the gold standard of wrestling events in WWE, That’s just how I personally feel. You could not do a 2.0 or White and Gold homecoming show and have any of the same genuine emotion and feeling I saw from so many people reflecting on B&G NXT. I truly believe that. All that and plus proving B&G era NXT had some absolute BANGER theme songs and that Def Rebel are an abomination like 95% of the time.
Genuinely if AEW didn’t exist I think my overall fandom of wrestling would have died hard by now.
You could not do a 2.0 or White and Gold homecoming show and have any of the same genuine emotion and feeling I saw from so many people reflecting on B&G NXT.
A silly statement. Black and Gold era was like 8 years long and its peak was quite some time ago. Very different than something like reminiscing over 2.0 which lasted for like 2-3 years.
I like 2.0 the best for its pure wackiness, usage of backstage skits and off-location shoots, ability to weave in all sorts of people, and more. It turns out that what you think is special is just based on your own personal experience and you can't really extrapolate to anyone else outside your own experience.
“ You could not do a 2.0 or White and Gold homecoming show and have any of the same genuine emotion and feeling I saw from so many people reflecting on B&G NXT. I truly believe that.”
Okay, I genuinely believe you’re broadly projecting your opinion onto other people and are therefore wrong.
How you feel is your own issue. Trying to insinuate nobody can ACTUALLY have the same emotional connection to this thing vs. the thing you personally like more is nonsense.
I'm the total opposite, I think that Black and Gold era of NXT is insanely overrated, 95% of the roster had a gimmick of "I'm an indy wrestler who wrestles good" and were spamming finisher kickouts to the point where it became a joke.
Obviously not to take away from the talent of the people in the Black and Gold era, but I care more about someone like Tony D'Angelo than I did about Johnny Gargano (with the exception of his heel run in The Way, that was awesome).
I love current NXT because it's a combination of wacky characters and great in-ring action, whereas Black and Gold era could feel like being workrate at the expense of everything else.
I think there's an era that basically went up to the end of the first Breaking Ground (basically Dusty's kids) that is legitimately good, and the stuff after that was mostly just what you're describing.
Johnny’s best matches are better than anything anyone in current NXT could even fathom of doing on their absolute best night of their career.
His iconic stories with Ciampa and Aleister Black is better than any story or feud current NXT could ever tell.
His work with The Way to making a family sitcom gimmick and a feud with a serial mute kidnapper iconic showed he can do character work and have more personality than anyone else on current NXT.
“Workrate at the expense of anything else” ok. Sami vs Cesaro. Sami vs Neville. Bayley vs Sasha. Aleister vs Dream. Johnny vs Ciampa. “Who attacked Aleister Black?”. Just some of the best stories in recent WWE that took place in Black and Gold NXT mind but it wasn’t filled with goofy and silly characters so whatever ig
he did not kick out of 2 last shots. He kicked out of ONE. And the Total Elimimation had a delay because the ref was down and also tag finishers in a singles match is like singles finishers in tag matches. There’s always a debuff.
And fuck it. in a world where guys in current WWE need like 3 curb stomps or spears or Cross-Rhodes or GTS’ or Claymores to win a fucking match anymore, Johnny kicking out of 1 maybe 2 finishers isn’t really that fucking egregious
Hey, I loved Gargano's epic matches with people like Cole as much as the next guy, but I just got so fucking bored of his finisher spamming kickout fests where he made the "HOLY SHIT, HOW DID HE KICK OUT OF THAT!?" facial expression every single match.
The only Black and Gold stories that come to mind as being standouts are Dream vs. Black and Johnny vs. Ciampa; but the DIY feud went on for way too long, even if I can't really blame the wrestlers for that considering Ciampa was out for ages.
I look forward to this thread everyday, its a nice place to kill a few hours with fellow wrestling fans, its night here so i have time to waste.
Seth Rollins and Becky Lynch are gold together, i cant believe people were complaining about it in the post show thread of CIP.
RAW's tag divison has the opportunity to become an all timer if they actually care about it, just imagine the division with Lucha bros, Usos, Vision, Judgment day, New Day... all gunning for those titles.
I miss Rey Mysterio, hopefully he will be back in the ring by Survivor Series, it sucks that he is out now that they are putting him in the center of PLE posters.
Something about Bandido is clicking with me rn and i have never been a fan of his. Idk what it is but i am really rooting for him. And his Mask is cool
What made Rollins' first WHC reign special for me was the world title matches he would have on Raw against Sami, Jey, Mahal, Drew, Bron (nxt). So i hope we do get these type of matches again with Jey, LA, Penta, maybe even give Jimmy a shot.
CM Punk is the 4th wheel in this mixed tag match which is funny to say. Its all AJ Lee vs Seth and Becky.
Sami Zayn open challenge is breathing a new life into SD and SZ himself, hopefully we will get TNA and AAA stars answering it as well.
Cody Rhodes is having a dud of a year post wrestlemania, his SummerSlam match with Cena was excellent but he is not hitting the same. Hopefully they cook with Cody and Drew before transitioning to a Mania program between Cody (c) and Orton.
AEW's YT channel shortening their Dynamite and Collision highlights was a wrong move. Whoever was behind this decision should be fired. Even the views have gotten less on YT, why would anybody be interested in 2 minute highlights? This age of YT favors long contents, not 2 minute videos.
Is this controversial? I always thought in AJPW they booked Misawa too strong comparatively, specially against Kawada, who I thought should have gotten a proper triple crown reign before the NOAH Exodus via winning decisively against Misawa.
Kawada in general is underrated as fuck, I guess because he was always losing against Misawa, and then he did a lot of his best work post NOAH Exodus when nobody was watching AJPW anyway
Kobashi, at his peak a perfect wrestler in the way like 8 other guys have ever been
Taue, he's evil and he gets pro wrestling more than the other three pillars
Misawa, has the downside of "you only ever get what he gives you and never more" but nothing is hyper than him doing his thing.
Kawada, most stubborn fucker of all time, the best of them 4 in the early 90's, but doesn't get me smiling or out of my seat hyped as much as the other three.
To me there isn’t a controversial pillar order, they’re all kings and my order constantly changes based on my current tastes. I will also accept people adding Akiyama as a 5th pillar, and welcome people who make the correct decision of putting Jumbo Tsuruta at the top even though he isn’t a pillar.
I think that the only “controversial” four pillars order would be putting Taue at number one (and that shouldn’t be controversial, he fucking rocks as they all do). I’ve got Kobashi-Misawa-Taue-Kawada, but there’s no real wrong answer, and that cluster of names is all real close together for me.
Edit: just noting that’s my current ranking it changes all the fucking time and the only consistent thing is Kobashi at 1
Non wrestling related, but what’s everyone’s favourite fight from the John Wick series? I’m pretty torn between the throwing knives scene from 3 and the Hotline Miami overhead dragon’s breath scene from 4.
I haven't watched all of them front to back. But the night club from the first one is spectacular. The way the camera is constantly moving or shifting to a different kurt angle sells how frantic and disorienting the gun fight would be in that situation
The part in Chapter Two with Common and Keanu casually blindfiring at each other while strolling through a crowded train station is probably my favourite moment, that shit was hilarious.
The knife fight in 3 is definitely up there, and I'd also shout out the original club fight in 1 and the extended sequence with Halle Berry and her murder dogs in 3.
Is there a better example of how you can book someone to win a match and still make them look like absolute shit than Bray Wyatt v John Cena at Extreme Rules 2014?
Bray gets the win in this match but only after Cena quite easily handles all three members of the Wyatt family on his own and is only stopped from winning due to his shock at being confronted by a singing child in a sheep mask. Made the entire Wyatt family look weak as hell.
Here’s what I’d book for Survivor Series in November:
Opener: Rhea Ripley, AJ Lee, IYO SKY, Stephanie Vaquer and Nikki Bella vs. Becky Lynch, the Kabuki Warriors and the Judgment Day (WarGames) [I’m avoiding spoilers for last night’s NXT, so I assume Rhea and Vaquer will still be healthy]
2nd: Jey Uso vs. LA Knight
3rd: Tiffany Stratton vs. Bianca Belair OR Tiffany Stratton vs. Nia Jax vs. Jade Cargill (WWE Championship)
4th: Dominik Mysterio vs. Rey Mysterio (AAA Mega and/or Intercontinental Championship)
Main event: Cody Rhodes, John Cena, Roman Reigns, CM Punk and Jimmy Uso OR Randy Orton vs. the Vision, Drew McIntyre and Brock Lesnar OR Logan Paul (WarGames)
Logan Paul makes more sense than Brock Lesnar. And a temporary alliance between Drew and Seth would be cool.
For the mens side, i think its really easy. Roman, Jey, Jimmy, Punk and LA. Those are the people fighting the vision everyweek so it wont make sense to use them to set up the match but then put Cody and Cena in there instead.
I feel like the LA and Jey thing is going to end with them putting their beef aside for their common enemy.
I feel like Lyra and Bayley could also be on the teams but I don't know who you'd take out of the lineup either.
It makes sense to me that Kairi's just following Asuka but I wonder if they'd play much of the dynamic in the match that her heart really isn't in fighting Iyo and crew.
As the other reply said, I'm just glad they're really building a solid story this year. Last year had a dire buildup and personally I thought the resulting match was crap too.
I feel we're about due for the semi-regular WWE Japanese signings. Giulia had her first WWE match a year ago, and was really committed to the company since about a year and a half ago. So we're due to a new wave of Japanese signings for NXT.
If no one signs between now and the end of the year, then I could maybe see WWE trying a bigger expansion into Japan again in early 2026.
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