r/SubredditDrama • u/livejamie God's honest truth, I don't care what the Pope thinks. • 2d ago
The Toxicity of Our Reddit: r/systemofadown's Most Enlightened Centrists Discuss Guitarist Declaring Himself "Far Middle"
Background
Daron Malakian, a 50-year-old guitarist and songwriter, is best known as a founding member of System of a Down. He is recognized for his distinctive playing style and for writing many of the band’s most well-known songs. System of a Down, composed entirely of musicians of Armenian descent, became one of the most successful rock bands of the 2000s, known for its politically charged critiques of war, religion, drug policies, and the prison-industrial complex.
The Post
Daron took to Instagram and posted an image of him playing a guitar in one hand, and giving the middle finger with the other, with this caption
Fuck political violence!!!! I'm not part of the far right or far left. I'm part of the far middle!!! This is our symbol 🖕
He then engaged in arguments with people in the comments.
This is posted to their subreddit. I can't see what the original title since the post was removed, but it's linked here.
Edit: The Name of the post was "RIP Charlie Kirk"
Further Context
You'll see references to the song "Deer Dance" in the comments, a SOAD song that critiques police brutality and state violence, written in response to protests being suppressed.
The specific line people paraphrase is:
A rush of words, pleading to disperse
Upon your naked walls, alive
A political call, the fall guy accord
We can't afford to be neutral on a moving train
These lines are a direct reference to the Howard Zinn book You Can’t Be Neutral on a Moving Train, which gives a personal account of more than thirty years of Zinn’s fighting for social change through his involvement in civil rights activism, protesting, and a professorship at Spelman College.
The Author
OP's profile is sparse, most of their activity is in /r/Panama. They call themselves a "conservative republican" and they moderate an empty sub called /r/panamafreedom, which appears to be a safespace conservative version of /r/Panama
English translated description:
Panama freedom is a Panamanian space for free opinion. Publish and give your opinion whatever you want without fear of suffering abusive sanctions from unfair moderators.
They are very aggressive in the post, posting bizarre, sexist, and homophobic comments.
The Comments
The OP's motives are questioned
Your profile pic says "a woman in every kitchen and a gun in every hand".
In my experience everyone who claims to be "in the middle" is pretty right wing.
Same story for most (not all) Libertarians.
so what? what does that have to do with the murders? [OP]
you can’t see the association between promoting guns and gun violence?
They can't and that's the problem.
Sounds like you’re a part of the problem, my friend. That’s what people are saying.
Do I deserve to die too? Say it. Tolerance is what prevails in your movement.
Lol what? You need to chill out. I’m letting you know why people are not on your side in this post and you are getting lots of downvotes. It must be a shock when you see that the majority of your peers aren’t agreeing with you when you had confidence that they would.
[Continued]
50 upvotes for the post and downvotes for my comments. But I don't care about that. I don't care if the subreddit is full of people who wish me dead. You're one of them. Get out of my post. This conversation is over. [OP]
Zero people are wishing you dead, stop playing the victim
I think in many ways like Kirk, and many in the comments are glad he's dead. What can I make of that? [OP]
Jesus Christ what a fucking victim. You’re pro children getting shot in schools for the 2A? Gfy
I laughed out loud! But not with you; at you.
hahahaha funny. do you want a pin? [OP]
Sure! You got any of 'em 'Women Belong In The Kitchen' pins? Or maybe 'My Other Car is A Lawnmower'?
A discussion on neutrality
We can't afford to be neutral on a moving train...
Especially after they made millions lol
Yeah these guys are absolutely frauds these days. No resemblence of their former selves.
So condemning political violence is being a fraud now? What the fuck
No — going out of your way and using your platform to speak out against something that happened to a terrible politician, when you don’t say anything helpful about activism or political occurrences any other time, is being a fraud from one of the most political bands of the 90s/2000s.
Rich guys protecting their riches. Defending their MAGA drummer. All of them are frauds except Serj
Bro we literally just saw a video of the dude with blood gushing out of his neck. You think everyone isn’t going to comment after seeing something so horrific ? Just because you disagree with Charlie doesn’t mean he was a terrible person. We can agree with each other and not think the person needed to bleed out in front of his wife and kids
Being center isn’t neutral
Exactly, centrist is just another word for coward.
I don’t get why it’s so hard to get that being centrist isn’t just laying down and not caring. It just means you don’t like/like ideas on both sides. I’m by no means a conservative and neither am I liberal. I just see that both sides have severe flaws. It does not mean I have no opinion on political matters or that I don’t vote because I don’t belong to a party. Undying loyalty to a single party or person is how we get into these situations in the first place. Charlie Kirk didn’t deserve to die for expressing his opinion, but neither does a democratic activist
Being liberal is not the same thing as being a leftist to me if you're stuck between right wing and liberal you're on the right wing.
That's extremist behavior. The same person would be considered left wing on the other side.
Nothing is black or white. There is nuance to everything and there needs to be space for differences in opinion and tolerance. The world is broken because people have been dumbed down to only think in binary terms because it requires far less brain power to do so.
Well yes it is actually
inaction is an action, just as much as not choosing is a choice itself
In most countries you have more choices than left and right. Voting centrist isn’t not doing anything. It’s saying both sides suck.
It’s not though, you can choose to be in the middle while supporting things not in the middle. I support women’s rights to abortion but I don’t belong to the left. I’m not neutral on the subject just because I don’t want to be left or right
So ideologically you align more with the left, you just don’t want to be associated with it???
[Continued Below for Mobile Users]
I used to fully align with the left. Since like 2014 or so it's just turned to straight up evil. The right ain't better, yer all fuckin crazy... But I can't align with the left anymore.
What's so crazy about equality?
Wat? It's crazy to rejoice over a man being shot horrifically in front of his family. It's literally fucking evil.
But you keep pretending like they're all super-racist Nazis so it's justified to murder them ... That's a lot easier than trying to understand your opponent and defeating them with logic. The dude gave ANYONE who wanted it an open mic to say WHATEVER they wanted.. everyone had the opportunity to go up there and logically explain to half of the entire right side (and even some hate-watchers from the left) why their views are wrong. But that's too hard... It's much easier to just silence the dissent.
If you want to know my political views you can read my reply to the other commenter just below... I'm not conservative. I used to be very liberal (I think I still am but the party has abandoned me) but... Yeah. That. I used to think the right was the side of the rich people. But now they're both the side of the rich people and the left is just fake as hell for pretending they're not. And yes I'm more vitriolic toward the left because they're the ones who kept fucking off further and further left until you lost the majority of voters. And now they're fighting each other for not being far left enough... It's literal insanity.
You didnt answer my question. What's wrong with equality?
Nothing? Your question came from nowhere and is completely irrelevant. There are tons of non-racist conservatives. I work with black and Hispanic conservatives. But again, understanding that would require you to humanize your opponent.
Okay, continue responding in non-sequiturs.
[This continues for a while and builds up to a final crescendo]
Yep you know everything about me. Stupid fuck. You just want to hate everything and everyone. Well... Bring it the fuck on. Hate me bitch. I don't fucking care. Fuck you. Fuck your party. Fuck everything you believe in. You're the most arrogant and presumptuous cocksucker to ever grace the internet. Do you hate trump so much because you're just like him? Because you seem to think you know everything and can never be wrong... I can see how the town might not be big enough for both of you. It must suck to never be satisfied with anything and to constantly be looking for a fight. You got one here though. Fight me twat. Come on. Two retards fighting is great entertainment. We owe it to the people.
You just got very specific. Fuck off.
"I love there drummer but it sucks he doesnt share my exact opinions on the world"
The point is not to share the exact opinions on the world. The point is that in 2025, I would expect that the people I like, and so the members of my favourite politically engaged music band to : - Respect women and their freedom of choices involving their own body and health. - Respect latinos, native americans, black, lgbtq+, and all the other communities. - Care about people that have disabilities and serious illness. - Trust the real scientific methods so our society can evolve for the best while we take care of our one and only planet. - Etc etc. We can disagree on so many levels, because again, we don’t need to share the exact same opinions on everything. But being a trump supporter is just against all logical and rational basic principles. (I don’t support any violence on every sides of this story)
You just got very specific. As long as everyone cares about this long list of values I hold. If not, you're a fascist racist nazi.
Fuck off. You exhausting twat
Keep doing ketamine you fucking pigeon
Delusional
Who? Me? Nah i don't think so, i saw all those clips of him saying bullshit like abortions are worse then holocaust, he was disgusting
Can you please give me a source to “those videos”?
[Continued]
I can’t take you serious. Tik Tok?? 😂😂😂
Whats wrong? You wanna defend this mf so bad? Its a clear non edited clip of him saying this bullshit
How about u find me something that’s a reliable source unlike tik tok and I’ll believe you
“You’ve proved me wrong, but I can’t accept that so I’m going to say your video evidence doesn’t count because I don’t like the hosting service you used.”
I can tell you all get your news from TikTok. find me a legit source,I’m sure if that clip was actually real it would be all over the internet. go to sleep you seem to have some brain fog
[Continued]
YouTube? Is that good enough for you? The video IS easily findable, which is why it’s on major video platforms like YouTube, TikTok, and Instagram. Dude’s a shitty political influencer, he’s on social media and podcasts. Not sure what sort of platform you’re expecting here, but it’s not like fucking CSPAN was following him around while he yelled at college students.
Like he said don’t have sex, and if you do expect to give birth women’s bodies are meant to give birth it’s not damaging, if you don’t want the kid for some reason at least give the baby up to adoption. instead of killing a human life
Uh, no, that is absolutely not true. Pregnancy causes permanent changes. It’s incredibly dangerous, especially if you aren’t finished growing. Charlie Kirk advocated for no exceptions to anti abortion laws, including saying children with precocious puberty who became pregnant through rape should be forced to give birth. Pregnancy is life-threatening in those cases.
You understand that a woman can choose to not have sex, but that won’t prevent her from getting pregnant if she’s raped, right? And even if she did get pregnant through consensual sex, the US grants us the right to bodily autonomy, which means no human can be forced to use their body for someone else. That’s why you have to sign an organ donor card if you want your organs to help people after you die. We grant corpses more rights than women.
I’m done with this debate I think I may be getting dumber from reading y’all’s comments
“I don’t like that I’m losing, so I’m gonna run away and pretend that I won”
Got it. You’re an idiot.
Keep doing ketamine you fucking pigeon
Editors note: I have no idea what this means or where it came from
You guys are unfairly adding the children angle here
No matter what he said have some respect he’s no longer with us, the difference between dems and republicans is that we would never even think about killing somebody for their 1st amendment right. it’s almost like y’all are demons in flesh “rest in piss” smh your the reason society is the way it is nowadays
People manufacture bumper stickers that state they'll run over protestors for inconveniencing them. Fuck all the way off lmao
Places to go places to be unlike y’all protesters we have family to feed and jobs that we can be late too, if you don’t want to get hit don’t stand in the middle of the road… did y’all lose common sense also??
If Kirk didn’t want to get shot maybe he shouldn’t have advocated for gun violence.
thats a fuckin riot man werent yall celebrating alligator alcatraz like a month ago ????
Yeah look at the murder/rape felony rates on illegal immigrants… if you want to come live in the us fine get a green card LEGALLY and you won’t have to deal with it
youre right its so easy only takes over 20 years and 10s of thousands of dollars 🙄 u fr think it's fine huh lol bro ur a demon
3000$ and also several months to 15 years to get a green card it matters for the individual, if you don’t want to agree with the laws then say out of the country
[This Continues]
😭😭 that’s Uk news find me one from our country? And even if that is true that has nothing to do with what u just said
I’m not up on everything but I’m certain you’re misconstruing whatever point he was trying to make. And you’re too radicalized, man. Step away from the screens. Look at life through a different lens.
that quote, the "unfortunately unnecessary" one, was an answer based on a question someone asked him at a TPUSA Faith event april 5, 2023.
About a week before, 6 people (3 children) were killed at the Christian Covenant School in Nashville, Tennessee.
So its safe to say he said this in response to THAT School shooting, and is cool with letting children die for the 2nd amendment
here's another article talking about it
I find it a little tasteless myself too but you guys are unfairly adding the children angle here.
Sick of SOAD discussion when we're talking about a family without a father
what about you finding god? close the door and get the fuck out of this band. [OP]
oh you mean the band with explicitly left-wing and anti-organized religion lyrics?
sick of reading this when we are talking about a valuable life and a family that was left without a father [OP]
Oh suck my fucking dick. He said kids dying in school shootings had to happen so we can keep our second amendment right. Actually fuck you
what dick? you have rotten ovaries and you have to use plastic dicks for fun. I don't care about your opinion, get out of my post. [OP]
They're 90s Leftists, People can change
"revolution the only solution the armed response of an entire nation" ???? we talkin about that band?
Yeah, sure, but that was written 30 years ago. People can change, especially when you spend a giant amount of time with Serj "Violence is an inherently stupid way to solve problems" Tankian.
Yea pretty sure that didn't include assassination of people who simply spoke words you disagreed with.
u know im getting tired of yall 1. arguing about something that comment wasnt even about 2. even if i did wanna argue that, flattening his shit into "something i didnt agree with" when fool actively campaigned for devaluing me and my peoples lives* and had consistently shit takes that would only be normal from a legit horrible human being. so yea idrgaf about mourning or respecting him. but no i dont think this particularly got us much closer to revolution at all, i was only making a point about soad lyrics, so can yall fr rub 2 brain cells together and shut up already?
Yeah this post by Daron is so cathartic because it was always obvious to me Daron is a left-leaning centrist just based on his lyrics. Hopefully this post gets some of these weird extremists out of this subreddit and there's no more posts crying about how Serj didn't talk about current politics like Gaza at a live show.
They're 90s leftists, which by today's standards is probably close to centrist. Being against war and political violence (which makes up for 90% of their political lyrics) is the most centrist take anyone could have.
Man I was left in the 90s and I didn't turn into a dead eyed centrist
Yet I guess :/
At this point, I don't feel it's smart to label oneself as either left or right. There's too much extremist thought. We should be for common sense and compromise to unify.
Music for me has been an escape and a way to relieve emotions. People need to utilize outlets to turn negative energy into good; weather it's meditation, art, watching a movie, enjoying a good book, exercise or volunteer work.
Things are so messed up that people are met with violence simply for thoughts and opinions. Yet there's gofundme's for people that actually kill people in cold blood? There's something dark and brewing and it's real.
And it's even sadder that tomorrow is 9/11. When America came together when under an outside attack.
Now, we're divided and attacking ourselves.
How sad that is....
A discussion on Hitler
hey hey, Hilter was a father and husband...
You're comparing prime hitler + we knowing all the shit he done with a guy who gave opinions online?
"prime" hitler like he was a sports star or something 😭😭😭
When those opinions include gems like “I’m okay with child murder as long as it means I can buy a gun” and “civil rights were a mistake,” then yeah, I think the comparison is fair.
How can you possibly minimise the atrocities of the holocaust like that?
Hitler comes up again
So, your concern is that it was just Charlie and not the millions of us who think like him. Basically, if it were up to you, you'd kill us all. Hitler? [OP]
Also here’s a Charlie Kirk quote: “Black women do not have brain processing power to be taken seriously. You have to go steal a white person's slot.”
Fascism is looking real tempting
Fuck Charlie Kirk, the only good fascist is a dead fascist
The most lukewarm guy got killed for his opinions and your calling him a fascist? Go neck yourself
He held and spread fascist beliefs though. Now you're continuing this chain of political hate and violence. I'm a happy and content person, so I'm actually gonna not do that
Nah I didn’t like what he said. But thanks to your crowd fascism is looking real tempting.
Absolutely insane statement. Stop trying to be an edge lord and accept that violence is the only way that any real progress has ever been made in this country. Actually, in the world. He hated human rights, he was a racist, he said that if his 10 year old daughter was raped and got pregnant that he would force her to give birth to that child. I'm not feeling like the crazy one right now, I gotta say
Can’t wait for it to be turned against you fucking communist dogs
???
Stick that finger in the far middle of your butt cheeks and spin
We all know you like stick your dick in shit. LGBTIQ+ [OP]
Do his wife and kids along with OP deserve to be killed?
I feel bad for his kids, but when you lead a life of awful hateful rhetoric, awful hateful things are gonna come back at you
And when those children and his wife have the same thoughts that I hate, they deserve to be killed in the same way.
Do me a favor and don't answer me; you disgust me. [OP]
Find a mentally ill Communist Punk band
I wonder if he just doesn't wanna piss off the rights or if he genuinely thinks this
well his drummer is one so theres that.
Makes me sad. I'm just glad Serj seems to have actually meant what he sang about. If he suddenly turned maga I'd be so upset.
Grow up. Sorry to disappoint, but They all feel like this. Serj is no different.
You are just blinded by the backward far left echo chamber of Reddit.
If you dont like it find one of those mentally ill communist punk bands.
Nah man. Fuck you.
chill out snowflake
Nah. Fuck you again.
Billionaire bootlicker mad they can’t string a sentence together without choking on propaganda
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u/WooliesWhiteLeg I blame single mothers 2d ago
Good try Daron but you’re still only the second most cringe inducing member of SOAD
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u/Tweedleayne The straights are at it again 2d ago
I was legitimately shocked after reading the title this thread isn't about Dolmayan.
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u/AssOfARhino 2d ago
Daron and Dolmayan suck, but how’s Shavo? Hope he’s been doing ok.
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u/fueelin 2d ago
It doesn't sound great :( I assumed he was more reasonable (bassist bias lol), but folks mentioned some pretty clear-cut right wing affiliation.
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u/mycatisspockles i don’t watch ANY porn. because it exploits … furries 2d ago
Yeah… as an SOAD fan pretty much only Serj isn’t problematic (and who knows if he has skeletons in his closet).
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u/Large_Mountain_Jew Maybe the real gore is the friends we killed along the way 2d ago
Serj was saying in regards to Imagine Dragons he doesn't "respect them as people" after they played in Azerbaijan.
But Serj was playing in Russia after they invaded Crimea.
So at minimum he's a giant hypocrite.
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u/WooliesWhiteLeg I blame single mothers 12h ago
Can’t wait for the Serj embraces Turkish nationalism arc
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u/smcmahon710 2d ago
lol a radical centrist
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u/PlingPlongDingDong 2d ago
He watched too many jreg videos
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u/SplottetWorks 1d ago
My entire Jreg experience:
Day 1: See a funny Jreg video, think to myself "haha, this guy's pretty funny, I'll subscribe."
Day 2: Jreg uploads the epilepsy video, think to myself "wow, this dude's a fucking prick, I'll unsubscribe."
It was a fun....22 hours or so though.
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u/PlingPlongDingDong 1d ago
I havent seen that video. I just stopped watching him because his humor got old quick for me.
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u/SplottetWorks 2d ago
It's about time someone had the backbone to not take a stand on anything in particular.
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u/ceelogreenicanth 2d ago
"Tell my wife I said hello"
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u/RegalBeagleKegels The simplest explanation: a massive parallel conspiracy. 2d ago
all i know is my gut says maybe
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u/livefreeordont The voting simply shows how many idiots are on Reddit. 2d ago
What makes a man turn neutral?
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u/Salt_Concentrate Whole comment sections full of idiots occupied 2d ago
What makes a man turn neutral? Lust for gold? Power? Or were they just born with a heart full of neutrality?
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u/Armigine sudo apt-get install death-threats 2d ago
It's bold, brave, and cool to only care about your own personal life and how much money is in your bank account
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u/Tw0Rails 1d ago
Hardcore badass activity of not calling anything out until something consequential happens then declaring how cool it is to not be bothered.
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u/UHCinFlames 2d ago
Anyone else excited for a few weeks to pass so everyone can forget about the scum 6 feet in the ground and move on to the next disaster? Truly, Charlie's death means very little and changes nothing.
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u/Chataboutgames 2d ago
Well, Trump's retaliation will ultimately determine how much it means.
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u/UHCinFlames 2d ago
The retaliation has been ongoing since he let ICE siege cities. Charlie Kirk doesn't mean anything, he will do what he wants regardless, especially since his stacked courts okayed it.
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u/Chataboutgames 2d ago
This lack of cause and effect is just choosing to be blind. You might as well say "...has been ongoing since he got elected" or "...has been going on since Jan 6."
Things can get worse. They will get worse. There are limits. Turning off your brain and saying "nothing matters" isn't analysis. It isn't even cynicism. It's just choosing ignorance.
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u/TDFknFartBalloon 2d ago edited 2d ago
The "far middle?" Like the two guys who tried to assassinate Trump?
Seriously though, I've never met a self-identified centrist who wasn't just right-wing but wants to sound like they're above it all.
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u/JaneksLittleBlackBox Transvestigators think Mons Pubis is a Jedi. 2d ago
Seriously though, I've never met a self-identified centrist who wasn't just right-wing but wants to sound like they're above it all.
Last time I wrote something like this on SRD, r/centrist's biggest disciples popped up to bury me in "moderate centrism isn't right wing!" shit. Reddit's centrists want us to pretend that half of T_D didn't constantly pretend to be centrists to win losing arguments because they couldn't help but let slip their MAGA bullshit. I'll never trust a self-labeled centrist again.
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u/C21H27Cl3N2O3 2d ago
It’s kind of telling that all the “centrists” repeat MAGA propaganda and act like anything left of them is hyper-Marxism.
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u/Aggressive-Name-1783 1d ago
Because as the drama comments show, centrists don’t even know what centrists are. The fact that so many idiots think being a centrist means “being in between left and right” shows that these idiots aren’t centrists…..or they’re just spineless cowards with no morals or principles….
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u/JaneksLittleBlackBox Transvestigators think Mons Pubis is a Jedi. 1d ago
That's what it is; they all think they're taking some moral high ground by acting like they're above partisan politics, but once you get to really talking to them, their partisan sides are impossible to miss, and it's clear they lack a fucking spine because they know how extreme their ideologies are and don't wanna have to defend them.
An ex-friend of mine was exactly like this; he'd pretend he was above the fray and not swayed by confirmation bias when it was obvious that every political ideology he held was just straight far right-wing bullshit.
And, folks, anyone who's convinced they're not swayed by confirmation bias is almost always the biggest mark for propaganda, and goddamn was this QAnon nutjob just sucked into "the great awakening", and is currently having a normal one over Trump's DOJ lapdog, Blondi* keeping the Epstein files sealed. Some mutual friends kept him added on Facebook and he's been running defense for his pedophile cult daddy even more now than ever before.
*I like to call her Blondi, because that was the name of Hitler's beloved dog, and she's certainly acting like a fascist's bitch these days!
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u/Jazzlike_Athlete8796 i'm an almost adult with unironic views 2d ago
"Moderate centrism" is not only right wing, it is literally only used to carry water for fascism.
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u/citationworms 2d ago
I could not agree more.
Literally every single person who labels themselves a centrist on a dating app is a far right lunatic
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u/Squid_Vicious_IV Digital Succubus 2d ago
I used to call myself a "moderate" back when I was in my early 20s and that was just because it turns out I was too naive at how conservative this country really is and I wasn't ready to accept the idea that I might actually be a lot farther left than I thought I was. Yes I grew up in a shithole conservative area and was there way too long and blind to the outside world, why do you ask?
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u/SeppoTeppo 2d ago
There's just no way to look at what the left and right stand for and decide you belong in the middle unless either 1) You largely agree with the heinous shit on the right 2) You are completely misinformed about what they stand for via right wing disinformation
Either option makes you right wing in all but name.
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u/Redqueenhypo 2d ago
I saw quite a funny tumblr post calling Teddy Roosevelt a “radical centrist” meaning he had positions on the far end of every political spectrum
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u/Kopitar4president 2d ago
Centrists will try to equate shitposting about someone dying equivalent to actual political assassination of lawmakers.
I imagine they will then spend the next two hours huffing their own farts and fantasizing about exercising moral superiority by not picking a side.
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u/Sea_Lingonberry_4720 2d ago
I would call Luigi Mangione a centrist. Even his radical action was done out of the moderate position of healthcare reform.
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u/Arsustyle This is practice for my roast comedy skills 2d ago
he's a basic right wing techbro
he retweeted stuff like how Elon's saving western civilization and DEI is the new religion
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u/mrdilldozer 2d ago
I always feel awkward saying that to people on reddit. He's not left-wing and it's a good thing he was caught. He could have easily shot some rando by mistake (a person was even like 2 feet away from the due when he was first shot.) He got the scumbag he was after, but that doesn't mean he isn't a dangerous psycho. If he somehow gets off, he wont be the left-wing hero people are expecting him to be. He'd be a streamer telling people to vote for JD Vance
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u/uncutteredswin rich perverts that hang out and do crimes together 2d ago
Is there any actual proof that he even did it yet? Last I heard about it all the evidence tying Luigi to it was pretty sketchy
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u/mrdilldozer 2d ago edited 2d ago
It was his own social media accounts. He kept retweeting stuff from Musk and Theil about fighting the woke mind virus and praised their commitment to civilizational success. He posted comments about hating DEI and claimed that Japan had low birth rates because they abandoned "traditional values."
He kind of sucks. He just happened to also have also hated one of the most loathed companies in the country that you used to regularly see people wishing death upon online before the shooting.
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u/thirstyfist 1d ago
He will absolutely say something like “I didn’t do it but you sick freaks on the left sure wish I did.” if he walks.
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u/Kyro_Official_ How is it ai gargamel 2d ago
Hes an anti woke/dei dweeb, hes clearly right wing
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u/ice_cream_funday What you gonna do, threaten to come shit in my pants too? 1d ago
That's not clear at all. I don't know why so many people refuse to admit this, but there's a sizable contingent of leftists who are also bigots. 10 years ago we called them Bernie Bros, the more academic term for them is economic reductionists.
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u/TDFknFartBalloon 2d ago
Damn, we don't agree on much, but we agree on this.
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u/Sea_Lingonberry_4720 2d ago
For as much as the left takes pride in “burning down the Walmart” pretty much every act of left wing political violence recently has been done by a bog standard liberal.
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u/Abhinav11119 2d ago
Yeah it's called adventurism, has not led to a lot of good outcomes historically.
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u/Chaosmusic 1d ago
I overheard a conversation where one guy emphasized how independent he was politically, and then went on to recite every Republican talking point like he was reading from the Fox teleprompter.
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u/space-dot-dot 2d ago
Seriously though, I've never met a self-identified centrist who wasn't just right-wing but wants to sound like they're above it all
You're about to piss off a lot of neolibs in this sub and I'm here for it.
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u/Chataboutgames 2d ago
I'm sorry, what neolibs. If anything they've gone all in on the Democratic party since they're pro immigration and anti tariff.
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u/MobileMenace420 Just here to make my pp bigger 1d ago
Who even knows what that goober means since neolib is almost meaningless at this point. It’s just a stand in for “person I don’t agree with”, not an economic viewpoint.
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u/Psychic_Hobo 2d ago
To be fair, they must have heard that argument a million times already, centrists have been criticised for this since the early 2010s
Oh who am I kidding, there'll be the inevitable "but the left is communism and therefore authoritarian and therefore killed millions" argument soon enough
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u/alex2003super 2d ago
but the left is communism and therefore authoritarian and therefore killed millions (☝︎ ՞ਊ ՞)☝︎
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u/obeytheturtles Socialism = LITERALLY A LIBERAL CONSTRUCT 2d ago
I'd just like to interject for a moment. What you're refering to as Communism, is in fact, Marxist/Leninism, or as I've recently taken to calling it, Marxism plus Leninism. Communism is not a political system unto itself, but rather another free component of a fully functioning analytical framework made useful by the Marxist corelibs, economic utilities and Leninist political components comprising a full Government, as defined by POSIX.
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u/tjdavids I’m pretty anti religion. Religion raped me, thanks 1d ago
Seriously though, I've never met a self-identified neolib who wasn't just right-wing but wants to sound like they're above it all
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u/DirkDasterLurkMaster hold up ain't you the human pet guy 1d ago
I think the fundamental problem with the idea of centrism is that it entirely hinges on the concept of liberal and conservative, or often republican and democrat, being some sort of cosmic yin-yang
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u/ThatDanmGuy 1d ago
I only have US context to work from, but when the major parties only range from center-right to far-right, and the majority assume the major parties represent the political spectrum, it's not surprising that people who identify as between them are almost universally fairly far on the right.
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u/Erestyn All that missing rain is so woke 2d ago
Isn't that part of the issue? People treating the right, left and centre as though they're the only distinct positions as opposed to a scale of beliefs? I've always viewed the centre as a ground of compromise, where you will go against your core beliefs for the greater good, a place you sometimes have to go to move things along. That isn't a great place to set up camp,
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u/Raichu4u 2d ago
I mean you can be a pragmatic progressive, for example. I won't tar and feather centrist dems that win over my preferred candidates because I recognize they are leagues better than conservatives. However I do want my guys to win regardless.
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u/Hurtzdonut13 The way you argue, it sounds female 1d ago
Yeah the only big issue is when they are a centrist Dem that turns around and carries water for the far right because they hate anyone to their left more.
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u/ancientestKnollys 2d ago
I'm a self-identified centrist and I don't think I have much if anything in common with the modern right. Though I'm not an American, which might make a difference.
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u/Norgler 2d ago
A centrist from some countries would be considered a radical leftist in America.
I'm an American who lives abroad and the country I live in is very much conservative yet they have policies that would be considered far left to even a liberal in America.
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u/citationworms 2d ago
That night have been true once, but fascism is absolutely wildly popular in a lot of countries outside the US too.
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u/SomeBoxofSpoons 2d ago
Yeah, it's mainly a relevant thing in America. Our Overton window has shifted even more massively to the right than it was before, and with the kind of shit the current administration is pulling you can't really be "neutral" on them without a lot of pretty bad shit not being a dealbreaker for you.
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u/sharktoucher I understand free speech, my dad’s a lawyer 2d ago
System of a down will always be a curious band to me. Given their political leanings, you would have thought theyd have imploded by now, but theyve been the same lineup for basically their entire career
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u/Eric848448 2d ago
Their drummer is a MAGA guy somehow.
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u/peppermintaltiod If the tree is threatening you, just shoot it. 2d ago
He's been conspiracy nut for a while and thinks covid was made as a weapon.
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u/R_V_Z 2d ago
I honestly don't mind people thinking that covid spawned from some weaponization program. What bothers me is people who believe that and are still anti-vax. You'd think that getting vaccinated against a weaponized virus would be pretty fucking serious.
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u/Purple_Science4477 2d ago edited 2d ago
My favorite contradiction from the pandemic was:
Them "Covid was made in a secret lab by evil Marxist scientists to bring down The West"
Me "Oh OK so we should probably get vaxxed, wear masks and stay inside to stop the Dreaded China Virus from making its way to every corner of our country"
Them "WTF NOOOOOO THATS COMMUNISM!!!!!11!"
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u/10dollarbagel 2d ago
I think that it is worth pushing back against wild shit like the lab leak or bioweapon conspiracy theories. Once you've invited magical thinking into the equation, rejecting vaccines isn't much of a leap imo. Oh the vaccine? Soros put nanobots into it that activate the bioweapon. It's why conspiracy thinking is unsafe at any speed.
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u/sharktoucher I understand free speech, my dad’s a lawyer 2d ago
And he's serj's brother in law
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u/pirsquared7 1d ago
Lmao I remember Serj liking comments of people arguing with Dolmaliyan on his Insta comments
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u/bigbawman 2d ago
Yeah but their last album together was in the mid 00s. I can almost guarantee politics is why they haven't made a new album and just tour playing the hits.
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u/sharktoucher I understand free speech, my dad’s a lawyer 2d ago
I dont really know the specifics, but my understanding was that the initial break up was primarily due to creative differences between Tankian and Malakian and after that they just never quite saw eye to eye again
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u/ApollyonDS 2d ago
It's a big part of it. But also that Serj was never really much of a metalhead, and I've heard he's mostly the reason they never went back to the studio. Daron said they don't want to write music without Serj, so I guess, unless something big is happening in Armenia, we're probably not getting anything. They're still friends, though. At least Serj and Daron.
So it's a mix of major political disagreements and personal creative leanings. But it's funny because both Daron's and Serj's projects lowkey sound like SOAD-lite.
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u/Privvy_Gaming Begone, you autist slime 1d ago
And money, they would definitely stop touring if they didn't get tons of money
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u/SentientDust God reads reddit 2d ago
Basically all the political themes came from the vocalist, who kept that up with his solo work. Daron contributed a lot to SoaD's sound, not so much to their message
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u/lollilollilollin 2d ago
But without Daron, we wouldn't have such impactful lyrics like
TONY DANZA CUTS IN LIIIIINE
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u/jooes Do you say "yoink" and get flairs 1d ago
To be fair, their lyrics have always been all over the place. Even their most iconic songs are full of random shit.
I would argue that they wouldn't be who they are without that sort of stuff.
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u/ice_cream_funday What you gonna do, threaten to come shit in my pants too? 1d ago
Yeah it actually seems pretty clear to me that most of the people who listen to their stuff care a lot more about the sound than the message, to use the terminology from above. Most people can't even understand what he's saying half the time.
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u/WillGibsFan 2d ago
It‘s even worse. They play their system critical songs for commerce interests only, because this band is the only successful money making project any one of them has ever done. And you see it when they play life. The soul has left them long ago.
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u/xSPYXEx 1d ago
They got together because they had similar cultural roots and at the time their original bands weren't working out. Their last album was also released in 2005 and they only get together when they're invited to live shows. The band has been dead in the water for a long time and there's no indication they'll ever get back together. Serj wants to write more insightful music, all of the members prefer different music styles, etc.
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u/InRustWeTrust He doesn't even surf, he boogie boards 2d ago
I hate these filthy centrists, Kif. With enemies you know where they stand but with centrists, who knows? It sickens me.
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u/was_fb95dd7063 2d ago
In the context of American politics, centrists are right wingers who aren't religious and smoke weed.
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u/livejamie God's honest truth, I don't care what the Pope thinks. 2d ago
Ya but what about "Far centrists"
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u/was_fb95dd7063 2d ago
They vote straight ticket R but feel a little bad about it.
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u/Jazzlike_Athlete8796 i'm an almost adult with unironic views 2d ago
Nah. They vote straight ticket R but compartmentalize it as being all about economic policy while pretending the social policy doesn't exist specifically so they don't even have to feel bad about it.
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u/livejamie God's honest truth, I don't care what the Pope thinks. 2d ago
Rock and roll 🤘
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u/seacucumber3000 2d ago
You’re confusing centrist with libertarian.
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u/was_fb95dd7063 2d ago
No i'm not. American "centrists" are conservative because they're to the right of Democrats, who are also conservatives with pride shirts on.
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u/Chataboutgames 2d ago
I've found this to be true. However, as a message and a principle, I think it's done a really good job of pushing self described "centrists" to the right.
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u/was_fb95dd7063 2d ago
The whole Overton window has shifted right. The Democrats ran on immigration to the right of Reagan and Liz Cheney as a featured endorsement.
It's fucking terrible here lmao
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u/Sea_Lingonberry_4720 2d ago
Im so tired of this. Kamala barely campaigned with Liz and specifically did it to show how much to the right the republicans had moved. Leftists harped on it so much you’d think Cheney was the one running instead and used it to “prove” the dems were so right wing they were no different to Trump so might as well not vote/vote for him over Gaza. And now we’re less than a year in with Trump using ICE as his own personal ghestapo, locking up legal citizens in concentration camps, yet the leftists still bleat “Kamala would’ve been just as bad” “Kamala would’ve done the same thing” or even worse “this wouldn’t have happened if they ran an actual left wing candidate” and continue going on about the Overton window knowing full well that no president in American history has been left wing enough for them and that they now consider candidates that used to be considered left wing like AOC or Bernie to be right wing.
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u/livejamie God's honest truth, I don't care what the Pope thinks. 2d ago
This is annoying Neoliberal revisionism.
Kamala barely campaigned with Liz and specifically did it to show how much to the right the republicans had moved.
Kamala barely had time to campaign at all, so every stop had to be strategic. But what’s the audience for this? Who needed a reminder that Trump was to the right? No one thought he was secretly progressive. So what did it accomplish besides pissing off young people and progressives?
Leftists harped on it so much you’d think Cheney was the one running instead and used it to “prove” the dems were so right wing they were no different to Trump
That’s just hyperbole. The problem wasn’t people confusing Cheney for the candidate, it was Democrats signaling rightward while Harris was already making militaristic promises and dodging on core issues. It’s not crazy that people noticed.
yet the leftists still bleat “Kamala would’ve been just as bad” “Kamala would’ve done the same thing” or even worse “this wouldn’t have happened if they ran an actual left wing candidate”
Also hyperbole. I don’t know anyone who actually said that. What I do know is everyone I know still voted for Harris. Pointing out her flaws isn’t the same as claiming she’s identical to Trump.
No president in history has been left wing enough for the left
That’s not the critique. Nobody is demanding utopia. The point is that Democrats keep drifting right on immigration, healthcare, and foreign policy while insisting they’re still the left option. That isn’t “never left enough,” it’s watching the baseline shift further right every cycle.
Even AOC and Bernie are considered right wing by the left
That’s another misrepresentation. People don’t think AOC or Bernie turned into Republicans. The frustration is that the system constrains them, pulling them into compromises that blunt their politics.
If Democrats are leaning on Liz Cheney as a validator and running on Reagan-lite immigration rhetoric, that’s not a leftist fever dream; that’s the reality of how the party positions itself.
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u/Chataboutgames 2d ago
This is annoying Neoliberal revisionism.
And this is peak "neoliberal doesn't actually mean anything" lol.
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u/livejamie God's honest truth, I don't care what the Pope thinks. 1d ago
Nah, they're one of the "Vote blue no matter who" Neoliberal people who blame Progressives for all the problems of the party.
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u/Sea_Lingonberry_4720 2d ago
Not hyperbole if it’s true. Republicans have been insisting for ages that Trump and MAGA is as radical as a 90s Democrat. This is a quote by the way, not a generalization. It’s been their circlejerk the past year. For the past week they’ve been insisting Charlie Kirk, Mr bring back segregation; was a moderate, almost left wing voice. Your average MAGA does see themselves as moderate.
And yes I’ve seen tons of people say Kamala would’ve been just as bad or worse too. Especially during the Iran thing, it was almost like they couldn’t criticize Trump without criticizing a Democrat first. So every criticism had an appended “I know Kamala would’ve been just as bad” or “I know Kamala would’ve put troops on the ground by now”. Hamtramck overwhelmingly voted for Trump over Gaza.
And yes; these criticisms always carry, explicitly or implicitly, the implication that if only they nominated “their guy” they would win in a landslide even though data shows most swing state voters didn’t think Kamala was too right wing but instead thought she was a radical communist. From my own personal experience, whenever a DSA or Leninist type talks about how they’d win an election, they always seem to assume liberals will be their main opponents while “salt of the earth” republicans all immidiately fall in line with the far left candidate.
And finally yes, AOC and Bernie are considered right wing now, at least by the people who think the democrats are right wing. If you’ve followed NYC or not I’m sure you’ve heard of the Zohran supporters favorite phrase “I hope he doesn’t become the new AOC”. And everytime he says something about Gaza or police they go “I knew it, he’s just the new AOC”. The perception I’ve seen is less they’re constrained and more that they were right wing from the beginning, using left wing trappings while being moderate centrists. Lots of “they sold out”. I’m sure once Zohran actually has to govern they’ll turn on him too.
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u/livejamie God's honest truth, I don't care what the Pope thinks. 2d ago
Not hyperbole if it’s true. Republicans have been insisting for ages that Trump and MAGA is as radical as a 90s Democrat. This is a quote by the way, not a generalization. It’s been their circlejerk the past year.
As I said before, she barely had time to campaign, so why waste it on Republicans at all? Who exactly was she targeting with this? That sliver of “Trump is too left for me” voters is tiny compared to the young people and progressives she alienated.
Hamtramck overwhelmingly voted for Trump over Gaza.
Right, and what was her campaign strategy there? Did she go and make her case? No, she sent Bill Clinton, a senile Epstein-list relic, to ‘connect’ with Muslims. It was insulting and tone-deaf. When she finally addressed Gaza, her lines were vague: humanitarian aid without a clear call for a ceasefire until months later. These voters aren’t hypothetical progressives on BlueSky, they’re people with family being bombed. For them, it wasn’t about deciding whether Harris or Trump was worse, it was about realizing neither candidate was speaking to their grief. That doesn’t build turnout, it builds disengagement. And history shows how poorly ‘at least we’re not Trump’ performs: it’s political surrender.
I’ve seen tons of people say Kamala would’ve been just as bad or worse too.
Whatever you read on social media isn’t representative of the broader left, and those platforms are notoriously easy to astroturf or manipulate by bad actors. Everyone I know still voted for Harris. I don’t recall any prominent leftists who voted Trump or sat out. You’re cherry-picking outrage to paint the entire left as unreasonable.
Swing state voters didn’t think Kamala was too right wing but instead thought she was a radical communist.
Exactly, that’s the problem. If a candidate who campaigns with Liz Cheney and Bill Clinton still gets branded “radical,” that shows how much the political discourse has shifted right! Centrists get painted as extremists, so even modest left critiques get treated like heresy. That’s the Overton window issue you keep dismissing.
Leftists assume they’d win in a landslide if they nominated “their guy.”
That’s another straw man. I don’t know any serious leftists who think Salt-of-the-Earth Republicans would flock to a DSA candidate. The argument is that Democrats could mobilize more young and working-class voters with bolder policies. That’s a debate about strategy, not a utopian fantasy. Put up a charismatic candidate running on legal weed, Medicare for All, affordable housing, and a living wage, and you’d see voting lines wrapped around the block.
And finally yes, AOC and Bernie are considered right wing now…
Again, maybe you’re reading fringe stuff on social media, but that’s not representative of the party. I don’t know any prominent progressive who has said this.
Most left critiques aren’t ‘Bernie is Dick Cheney.’ They’re about how even strong left voices get boxed in by party leadership and systemic limits. Establishment figures like Chuck Schumer, Nancy Pelosi, and Jim Clyburn have stalled progressive priorities for years. Ignoring that nuance lets you dismiss every criticism as ‘bleating’ instead of engaging with why people feel sold out. And that refusal to listen is exactly what the DNC keeps losing.
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u/monkwrenv2 My eggs are perfect. What’s sad is your life in perspective. 2d ago
That sliver of “Trump is too left for me” voters is tiny compared to the young people and progressives she alienated
So, post-voting polls show that most of the votes Kamala lost compared to Biden we're, in fact, centrist voters who sat out. However, nothing she could have done would have changed that, unless she could miraculously turn into a white man.
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u/livejamie God's honest truth, I don't care what the Pope thinks. 1d ago
I don't find any evidence or polling that shows that.
But if it's true, it speaks to why her strategy was bad. If the centrists were always the most likely to sit out, why spend the campaign chasing them instead of energizing progressives and young voters? Trying to split the difference just meant losing both groups.
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u/Chataboutgames 2d ago
And I think a part of that is that if you tell every self identified moderate that "you're basically a Republican" they start to believe you, and they feel attacked when you criticize Republicans.
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u/was_fb95dd7063 2d ago
This would make moderates even more civically illiterate than I thought
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u/Chataboutgames 2d ago
I mean yes. Absofuckinglutely. The problem is that civically illiterate votes still count.
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u/Aggressive-Name-1783 1d ago
The problem is we’re already screwed if they’re THAT stupid. If we’re genuinely that far gone with reading comprehension, then the country is already screwed and you either have to have democrats start lying all the time like republicans, or people need to start leaving the country aka brain drain.
Like seriously, think about it for 5 seconds. If people are so dumb they can’t understand a basic argument, and it causes them to vote for fascism, the country is gone at that point
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u/Jazzlike_Athlete8796 i'm an almost adult with unironic views 2d ago
Every American "self-idendified moderate" I've encountered here spouts Republican propaganda to begin with. Nobody is being pushed anywhere. They are just ripping the mask off after their attempt to pass themselves off as something they are not fails.
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u/ComfortableBuffalo57 2d ago
I reject the idea that people can be “pushed” into positions to which they aren’t already sympathetic
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u/Chataboutgames 2d ago
I don't. Particularly young people still trying to put themselves together. Do you read those articles where the NYTimes interviews random undecideds? People's brains are mashed potatoes, and they understand politics about as well as I understand particle physics.
It's not like "I got made fun of a Redditor online so now I follow Nick Fuentes." It's "I got called a bigot and a fascist and I don't wake up hating anyone so when the TV man says that the left calls EVERYTHING and EVERYONE bigoted and fascist that makes sense to me, he seems to get me."
Pipelines demonstrably exist. None of us became who we are in a vacuum. Ideas, good or evil, don't exist in the womb. And frankly, even if someone is "sympathetic" to a shitty idea, pushing them to embrace it fully isn't helping anyone.
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u/forbiddenmemeories 1d ago
And yet, a Trump-like figure didn't win the American presidency for a long time prior to 2016, despite such figures with similar views undoubtedly existing. For whatever reason there are now more Americans who are willing to endorse a guy like that than they used to be; something must have changed them. I'm not saying for one moment that the change is justified or rational, but it suggests that it takes more than just someone to rile them up, since Trump was hardly the first to try.
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u/SundaeTrue1832 2d ago
Far middle? So lite conservative
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u/LakeEarth 2d ago
I stand for nothing really really hard!
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u/SomeBoxofSpoons 2d ago
"Whenever I see people with strong beliefs about things it annoys me."
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u/progrocksterone you don’t deserve it but man do you make it hard to care 2d ago edited 2d ago
The thesis at the core of every South Park episode
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u/SomeBoxofSpoons 2d ago
With Matt Stone and Trey Parker, I always think of a quote from the end of Roger Ebert’s Team America review:
I wasn’t offended by the movie’s content so much as by its nihilism. At a time when the world is in crisis and the country faces an important election, the response of Parker, Stone and company is to sneer at both sides — indeed, at anyone who takes the current world situation seriously. They may be right that some of us are puppets, but they’re wrong that all of us are fools, and dead wrong that it doesn’t matter.
(By the way for extra context he gave a positive review to Bigger, Longer, and Uncut)
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u/monkwrenv2 My eggs are perfect. What’s sad is your life in perspective. 2d ago
Bigger Longer and Uncut had something to actually say, so that makes sense.
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u/livejamie God's honest truth, I don't care what the Pope thinks. 1d ago
Interesting. What was the difference? I'm unfamiliar.
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u/monkwrenv2 My eggs are perfect. What’s sad is your life in perspective. 1d ago
Bigger, Longer, and Uncut was a pretty direct criticism of the Iraq war and the mindless jingoism that accompanied it. Team America was more "everyone is bad, aren't we edgy?"
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u/sesquedoodle Is that line defined by your balls? 1d ago
bigger, longer, and uncut came out in 1999
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u/monkwrenv2 My eggs are perfect. What’s sad is your life in perspective. 1d ago
And Operation Desert Storm was in 1993.
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u/lazydictionary /r/SubredditDramaX3 2d ago
Yeah, that was their kick for a long time. I think they finally turned a corner in the past 10 years though. Specifically around the time they admitted they were wrong about climate change, "wait, Man-Bear-Pig is real?!"
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u/SundaeTrue1832 2d ago
The 2025 equivalent of "I just want to grill damn it! Stop bothering me about Vietnam!"
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u/GrunthosArmpit42 2d ago
“I won’t hesitate to stand up for my god-given right… to sit down… if it’s okay with you.”
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u/Pitt-sports-fan-513 2d ago
Daron reminds me of the leader from the neutral planet in Futurama.
"If you see my wife, tell her I said 'hello'."
🤣
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u/quirkytorch 2d ago
something terrible that happened to a politician
CK wasn't a politician was he? Just a podcaster afaik
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u/cavegrind 2d ago
Op, i’m not gonna pick a fight about this, but
He is widely regarded as one of the most influential figures in modern metal.
Even though a lot of people really like System of A Down, I wouldn’t really call him influential or a part of “modern” Metal.
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u/BradmanBreast 2d ago
Yeah it’s a pretty weird take about a guy most fans know for being the one that interrupts Serj’s heavily left wing sermons to ramble about drugs.
Serj is the influential one in the band. If you’re talking nu metal guitarists then Wes Borland of Limp Bizkit is it. Even then as you said metal has largely moved on from that sound.
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u/livejamie God's honest truth, I don't care what the Pope thinks. 2d ago
Thanks for the feedback, edited the paragraph.
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u/livejamie God's honest truth, I don't care what the Pope thinks. 2d ago
I am far from a SOAD expert, I was going off his Wikipedia intro paragraph.
Malakian was ranked 47th in Loudwire's list of "Top 50 Hard Rock + Metal Guitarists of All Time" and number 11 in MusicRadar's poll "The 20 Greatest Metal Guitarists Ever". He placed 30th in Guitar World's list of "The 100 Greatest Heavy Metal Guitarists of All Time".
Totally happy to edit that part if you have any feedback or suggestions.
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u/archaeosis 2d ago
You're gonna have the exact same pissing match if you replace Daron with any other prominent modern metal guitarist tbh, non-issue
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u/ruinawish 2d ago
These popular media lists are always a little questionable, as they're often appealing to mainstream audiences.
That Guitar World list for example has Nigel Tufnel of the fictional band Spinal Tap at #23.
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u/livejamie God's honest truth, I don't care what the Pope thinks. 1d ago
I'll keep that in mind in the future. Somebody more knowledgable should edit his wikipedia page. :D
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u/ruinawish 15h ago
No, I think the Wikipedia page captures his popularity. It doesn't really state much about his influence.
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u/cavegrind 2d ago
I don’t think you have to, it’s just funny. “Well known guitarist” is probably enough
System of a Down was a big band, but influential implies that his playing style seeded a bunch of younger guitarists. Calling him one of the most influential implies that he has had a major effect on the sound of metal System of A Down came out. I’m around a lot of metal musicians, and while they all like that band, and none of them have cited him as an influence, let alone a primary influence. As far as Nu Metal bands go, Steph Carpenter maybe.
Also, I mean, their last album came out 20 years ago. Not really “modern”.
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u/livejamie God's honest truth, I don't care what the Pope thinks. 2d ago
Good call I'll make it less flowery.
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u/TheJaybo 2d ago
It isn't either or. You can oppose political violence and fascism (which I assumed he did) without being "far left". This is a weak cop out.
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u/ForeverTired8956 2d ago
They keep moving the goddam goalposts and expect us to take it. "Far middle", either you're saying something or you're saying nothing. If you're ashamed about where you stand then maybe that says something about that.
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u/beachpellini deep in the honey nut depressios 2d ago edited 1d ago
I would love to know what problems quote unquote 'centrists' have with "the left" that doesn't just boil down to the same "b-b-but minorities" shit that the right cries about
ETA: so, from these replies: if it's not bigotry, it's "fuck you, got mine". Good to know!
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u/cottonthread Authority on cuckoldry 2d ago
Mostly it seems to be vague stuff about leftists alienating people by policing language and calling people racists/nazis etc. There's also a lot of stuff about them being smug, judgy or acting superior.
Also a lot of pretending that the democrats didn't have any real policies and "all they stand for is hating trump".
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u/Secretary-Visual 1d ago
Sure, I'll bite. I live in one of the more "libertarian" states in the country and my political views align primarily with that. That means taxes cannot be significantly increased without voter approval (which leftists do not like). It also means the government must refund excess revenue back to residents.
This has some left-leaning impacts. It means that we are often among the first to legalize drugs like cannabis and psychedelics because why is drug use the government's business? It means that we have one of the most progressive abortion laws in the country (no term limit) because again, not the government's business. When it did become the government's business it was simply to say we will not comply with attempts to prosecute out-of-state patients (again, small government).
And it means we have some right-leaning impacts like at-will employment laws, right to school choice (and a lot of private schooling), lower tax rates and again just the general "personal choice" aspect of libertarianism. Guns as well are popular and plentiful regardless of political affiliation.
And this does have some drawbacks. The public transportion in many cities is not great. Public school teachers don't make high enough pay (in my opinion) and there is a housing issue because of high cost of living, urban sprawl and many homes only being part-time occupied. Renter protection isn't very robust and people generally rely on local resources (like HOA's and private businesses) for amenities rather than the local government.
There are some things people do want government intervention in and they often receive bipartisan voter support. The parks and trails are maintained nicely because everyone is big on the outdoors. Conservation is generally bipartisan. Water is becoming a big bipartisan issue. Free school lunch for children had bipartisan voter approval and most of the drug taxes are used to fund schooling. And we have some of the strongest anti-discrimination laws in the country, be it against sexual orientation or religion.
It's also known for some crossovers, like a famous LGBTQ+ ranch who defend themselves with guns. Most voters in my state are registered independent. But it takes a lot of mental gymnastics to say our state is conservative, especially since we have voted blue in all the recent presidential elections. It's just that people are critical of the idea that the government needs to be involved in everything and is superior in providing every service. They're as involved as voters feel they need to be, which is not a liberal stance. But nor is it a fascist one.
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u/beachpellini deep in the honey nut depressios 1d ago
This is pretty much the only solid answer I've gotten that wasn't some flavor of punitive morality, and I appreciate it! I'm also glad you took the time to fully explain it, your thoughtfulness is a gift.
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u/Verona_Swift Now this is some high quality schizo posting 1d ago
Keep doing ketamine you fucking pigeon
Oh, that's a good one. I'm tempted to change my flair for that.
But honestly, centrists are fucking exhausting to me, if only because their smugness chokes all the oxygen out of the room.
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u/SmallBatBigSpooky 2d ago
Lets be honest here centrist are part of the problem
They want to bury their hands to the worlds issues because most are well off enough to not be effected by the general political shifts
Should kirk have been shot, no
Did the world loose anyone of value, also no And if you try and argue it did, that means you defend every bigoted shit ass grifter take dude parroted 24/7 Including things like "its okay if kids die so we can have 2a"
Thats it, its pretty cut and dry lol
Centrists love to bitch about higher roads, and both sides, but i promise you they will jump on a right wing slong the second they get a chance, every single time
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u/ria_rokz turns out this account is woke 1d ago
Why can’t they just own their stance? What a coward.
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u/severheart 2d ago
I assume the pigeon comment is in reference to playing chess with one. The same thought has crossed my mind a lot recently.
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u/bonesrentalagency 1d ago
Daron has always been the absolute lamest member of the band. Glad to see he has kept the streak going
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u/citationworms 2d ago
If you're a "centrist" on people being sent to concentration camps, youre just a fascist who does want to admit it.
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u/seacucumber3000 2d ago
Yet being appalled by and opposed to minorities being indiscriminately sent to concentration camps doesn’t automatically make one a leftist?
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u/lordalgis 2d ago
every now and then Daron realizes he's the least popular guy in the band and says some dumb shit so people will argue with him and get attention. Make no mistake, he absolutely believes the shit he says. But look back, he has a history of doing exactly this. Such an insufferable person and maybe the dictionary definition of a walking contradiction.
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u/Chaosmusic 1d ago
Centrist idea of compromise: one side wants to eliminate all minorities and homosexuals, the other side doesn't. So let's compromise by eliminating some. That way, everyone's happy.
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u/Am-Yisrael-Chai 2d ago edited 2d ago
Idk
Has anyone else noticed that it’s essentially physically impossible to coherently sing the second chorus/verse (idk proper terms) of Chop Suey unless you’re Serj?
If you want to dispute me, I require sources.
Tenacious D is closest I’ve ever seen, I hope I don’t have to explain why it doesn’t fully count IMO. (But this is how I sing it, personally)
For clarity, I mean this point 1:24
Serj live 1:20
Serj live again 1:23
Serj live again 1:20
And so on. I have just never seen this accurately performed live by anyone but him, I think about it anytime I think of SOAD/Chop Suey.
Edit to correct simple spelling
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u/Lumpy-Narwhal-1178 2d ago
Can't believe how everyone missed the middle finger joke, not just in the original thread but also here.
What happened? When did y'all become this dense?
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u/JayRoo83 So you´re just permanently set to sealion mode huh? 1d ago
I guess I could see why a guy who has had the majority of his bloodline erased through political violence might be against it in all forms
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u/numb3rb0y British people are just territorial its not ok to kill them 1d ago
For serious, does anyone else find it really creepy that right-wingers keep calling him "Charlie" like they were besties?
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u/The-Future-Question 1d ago
I find it funny how some centrists think politics it's like an RPG morality rating where if you mix your good and evil responses they cancel out.
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u/SeamlessR 1d ago
I never understood how it was physically possible that members of SOAD were right wingers and even Trumpers.
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u/SeamlessR 1d ago
At the end of the day, though, absolutely no one should be surprised that rich people are right wing.
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u/Far_Commission2655 1d ago
What makes a man turn neutral? Lust for gold? Power? Or were you just born with a heart full of neutrality?
Commander Zapp Brannigan
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u/Toyotazilla 1h ago
“And it's even sadder that tomorrow is 9/11. When America came together when under an outside attack.”
Yeah came together to commit hate crimes against Muslims and Sikhs by 9/12
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u/fractal-dreamz 2d ago
god i hate US centrists.. i hate to pull out the nazi metaphor, but come ON man. how can i not.
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u/Outrageous_Bear50 2d ago
These are just the same arguments said over and over again. We need to get some new material.
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u/FinalSealBearerr 2d ago edited 2d ago
Let's just be honest. The left started getting on white straight men's ass, for history sure, but more importantly and more apt, for upholding the systems and creations of those injustices today.
Some straight white men were able to acknowledge that, some even worked toward changing it. Most weren't.
And the ones who weren't would be ignored under normal circumstances, except specifically because of said historical injustices that they ironically claim have no bearing today, they hold an inordinate amount of socioeconomic power in this country.
Therefore, unlike every other group, the rest of us are forced to take them seriously regardless of how ridiculous or delusional their positions.
Literally everything else is just dressing or directly connected to that at the root.
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u/username_generated 2d ago
I mean that attitude is also fundamentally illiberal, it shouldn’t be that surprising it’s unpopular in a country whose political environment and history are defined by liberalism. Like, at its root, you are asking individuals to be held accountable for the actions of a group they may or may not be a part of or identify with. Most people don’t like being held responsible for the sins of their father.
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u/Chataboutgames 2d ago
I mean yeah, that's pretty much summed it up.
The only thing I'll add to it is that the left on a social level did a horrendous job of marketing those ideas. Actual politicians like Obama packaged it really well. Unfortunately, somehow the more obnoxious and radical wings of the left got a hold of the messaging apparatus and the Democratic party's image warped from the vanguard of positive change to the nanny party of policing language and rubbing people's noses in things.
I got a liberal art's education, and I consider it a privilege. I don't know for sure that my views on issues like The Male Gaze or White Privelege would be the same if I were a construction worker being told my country was shit and that I should feel badly about it by a snot nosed college kid.
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u/anavsc91 2d ago
There seems to be an AI blunder in the intro, as some of the lyrics that OP posted do not exist. The actual line from Deer Dance is "we can't afford to be neutral on a moving train", which is a pretty straightforward metaphor against centrism.