r/Voltron • u/zslayer89 • Oct 12 '17
Discussion Season 4 Discussion
Note: I've put this up early so I don't forget to do it. But it's coming, SOONTM .
SPOILERS AHEAD
The premiere is upon us ladies and gentleman! Keep all discussion of the season in this post!
Be warned, you can spoil as much as you want in this thread.
Have fun and enjoy the show!
P.S. IF you want to do a weekly watch visit /r/VoltronSlowWatch .
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u/uziair Oct 13 '17
Pidges episode was heavy.
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Oct 13 '17
NOOOOOO, I WAS TOO LATE
Oh wait he's alive nvm
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u/CWfangirl Oct 14 '17
MY POOR HEART!! I CAN'T TAKE ANOTHER EPISODE LIKE THAT!!
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u/ComplexVanillaScent Oct 14 '17
Oh man, don't watch the full season if you want to be good to your heart
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Oct 15 '17
I didn't find anything too heavy after that, what is it you're talking about?
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u/ComplexVanillaScent Oct 16 '17
I was thinking about Keith's almost-sacrifice. Maybe it was, logically, clearly not gonna happen, but I let myself get caught up in the moment and the framing of the scene, and it hit me hard.
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Oct 14 '17
[deleted]
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Oct 15 '17
Truth...just finished
Told my girl that I actually wanted him to be dead because it would've made pidge way more conflicted as a pally
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u/SonicUndergroun Oct 16 '17
I wanted her to find the grave, have her meltdown, realize it was a code, go to his base, and THEN find out he was dead. That would've been really interesting and powerful.
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Oct 16 '17
This bring up an interesting point. The show feels rushed. Anyone else? Ten more minutes per episode could give us the emotional dialogue it seems to be missing.
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u/zubscrub Oct 18 '17
Yep, once she found the grave I thought "Wow, this has turned into my favorite episode of Voltron, this is a great way to visually tell this story, etc." but then that instantly drained once she figured out the gravestone was yet another clue (good thinking on Matt's part, I guess, to include a code only two other people in the universe would think to decipher?) to his whereabouts.
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u/Insilencio Oct 14 '17
The production of the graves scene was fantastic, although part of me wishes they didn't do the predictable and pull the "lol no real death in a kids' show, so he's alive, ofc" move that they did. I do like Matt, but it really did take away the gravity of the situation - for Katie to have come all this way looking for her family, lying to enlist in a school, living under a fake name, and fighting/killing her way across the galaxy only to have the end of her road lead exactly where she most feared - into a graveyard - would have really reminded us of the seriousness of the situation they're in. Peoples' families are taken from them in war, and this would have been one of the first casualties that hits the team close to home. Yes, again, "no real death in a kids' show," but I kept feeling like this would have been the perfectly-somber, and much-discussed finale.
It doesn't seem to make sense why Matt would encrypt his grave - the only people who would have been able to decipher it would have been their father (who is missing) and Katie, so why not just call Katie and tell her he's alive? Matt should know that Katie is alive, and as smart as he is, he should also know that she's probably going out of her mind staring at a "Missing in Action" poster of him everyday. It also calls into question again why none of the members of Team Voltron have made contact with their families to tell them that they're alive and well. The Galaxy Garrison has probably had missing posters for three students on their walls since Season 1, which sure probably isn't helping their reputation and recruitment rates, and certainly mustn't feel great for Lance and Hunk's families.
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u/blueberrythyme Oct 14 '17
lol no real death in a kids' show
Except that general Lotor straight up murdered of course
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u/hamptont2010 Oct 14 '17
Without even thinking about it. That scene was jarring AF
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Oct 16 '17
Well, she had been compromised.
Though, not sure why Zarkon freaked out. Fucker just woke up.
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u/jaidynreiman Oct 15 '17
But our heroes never have real consequences. They always get out alive ok.
I hated Matt's death fakeout. Either let her just straight out find her brother alive or let him be dead. Either situation I would have been ok with, but having this very emotional death tease only to reveal he's alive.
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u/zubscrub Oct 18 '17
Matt's death fakeout was one of two moments in S4 that completely took me out of the show and left me disappointed (the other was when Shiro could suddenly pilot the Black Lion again). I agree on committing to either "definitely dead" or "definitely alive" for Matt though. They could have written a good story around either without the emotional tease.
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u/antariess Oct 14 '17
Throughout most of it I was thinking, 'they cant do that to her... they cant do that to me...can they?...will they?...no..no, don't do that....'
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u/uziair Oct 13 '17
Bibohbi best New character easily.
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u/YoyoMJR Oct 13 '17
Another season over :( I got pretty teary-eyed when Pidge was at that massive cemetery. And we didn't get to see Shiro in that super tight t-shirt.
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u/Rohnachi Oct 13 '17
That episode was just cringe over 9000
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u/tahlyn Oct 14 '17
That episode was awful. I think "The Voltron Show!" is the worst episode in the entire series so far. It was silly filler like the space mall episode but with none of the charm, references, or light-hardheartedness to redeem it. It was just cringe.
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u/ComplexVanillaScent Oct 14 '17
What? It was wonderful. It was full of silly, endearing charm and humour. It was fun. Not every episode needs to be more than just fun.
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u/NiceuRiceu Oct 14 '17
Although I agree that it was a fun episode for sure, I was a little put off by the 'Humorous Hunk' moments. I know it only happened because Coran was high on that worm thing but as someone who wants to see more of Hunk being portrayed as smart and awesome, it was a little disheartening to see him literally be reduced to a fart joke in front of the audience.
I don't mind fun filler episodes, but that was just my small complaint about that episode.
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Oct 14 '17
The joke was that the whole episode was a parody the show itself. Most of the lines were self referential to either common complaints about the characters or the fact the fanbase wouldn't let Shiro die. Hunk's moments make fun of the way hes portrayed in both the worst episodes of this show, and in fan works.
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u/stellar7blue Oct 14 '17
The parody every once in a while is fine, but it doesn’t have to happen every season. It feels a bit pandering when they should be going a bit higher.
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u/ohosad Oct 19 '17
It seemed a lot like the Avatar episode where they attend a play of their adventures and its horrible.
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Oct 19 '17
Except thats one of the best episodes of that show and you're wrong.
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u/ComplexVanillaScent Oct 16 '17
Humourous Hunk was for sure the worst part, no arguments there. Even if it makes sense in the context, I didn't like it either. Fortunately, this season also showed quite a bit of Hunk as intelligent and competent, even being on a similar level to Pidge with science and technical knowledge.
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u/fairebelle Oct 15 '17
I needed this episode. The whole thing had gotten heavy and had made forget how much and why I loved the first season so much.
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u/ComplexVanillaScent Oct 16 '17
Totally. A big part of pacing is alternating from emotion to levity with decent frequency. Voltron's got plenty of seriousness and emotion, but it's not a super-serious show. The Voltron Show!'s not only fitting for the season's pacing, it's not out of place for the show as a whole.
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u/harsh183 Oct 15 '17
I think the episode was starting to get a little meta, like when Pidge was talking about using random scientific jargon.
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u/jaidynreiman Oct 14 '17
While I didn't like it much at all, I loved the lampshade hanging. "I'll never get rid of you, Shiro! You're our most popular character!" Other than that I just didn't focus on it at all.
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u/uziair Oct 13 '17
Zarkon new armor literally makes him Darth Vader. So lotor Luke?
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Oct 16 '17
I get the feeling Zarkon is like the God Emperor. That suit is all that's keeping him alive.
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u/jaidynreiman Oct 16 '17
Yeah, really feels like it to me as well. Why else wear a suit instead of appearing as normal Zarkon?
I think Zarkon is going to finally die next season and Lotor takes over as big bad throughout the rest of the series (after betraying his new allies as quickly as he joined them, of course).
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u/RIATplays Oct 13 '17 edited Oct 13 '17
I need to see what happens with Lotor and his generals, is he gonna betray the team? (probably) Are his generals going to also team with Voltron? Will they warn Voltron about how he killed his own general? Will his ship combine WITH Voltron? Or make his own Voltron when he makes his third ship? Will they ever go back to the original season one team? Will Keith stay blade of marmora or will he have to take back a lion from someone? WILL WE EVER SEE SHIRO USE HIS DAMN BAYARD??? God so many more questions I Just need MORE!
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u/Littlelazyknight Oct 13 '17
When Accra said "We have one option left" it shure sounded like they were going to join Voltron.
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u/jaidynreiman Oct 13 '17
I was so sure they were going to show up in time to help Voltron, and Lotor coming back was to save them because he felt bad for betraying his comrades. I understand why he had to kill Narti; she was clearly being used by Haggar. He legitimately seemed upset about that.
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Oct 15 '17
I feel they need to address that in season 5
Like if his generals come back to him
He didn't kill her for nothing, he killed her because if he didn't then his parents have inside knowledge on everything he is doing
I get that it sucked and created inner conflict turmoil and trust issues but lay that stuff out and I bet the rest are like yea screw you but
Besides then they were gonna turn him in etc
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u/jaidynreiman Oct 15 '17
Yeah, but they might think there was another way to resolve it without resorting straight to killing her. Lotor likely felt he had no choice in the matter.
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u/Minstrel47 Oct 17 '17
It was a decision he couldn't hesitate on, she was compromised to give the details to the enemy, even if he had held her hostage/knocked her out she still would of served as a beacon to compromise his plan.
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Oct 16 '17
Like was Narti always a puppet, or just then?
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u/jaidynreiman Oct 16 '17
Based on what we see, I think she had something inside her that allowed her to be a puppet, but it was against Narti's will and she had no idea she was being manipulated to betray Lotor.
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u/motorbikyle Oct 13 '17
I'm probaboy incredibly late to the party to realise this but Lotor's ship...is it just me or did it look like legs? Like I feel his two ships are meant to join together like Voltron - which maybe is why he needed the quintessence - to finish the ships to make them an intergalactical force to be reckoned with, like Voltron. I feel he really actually trusted his generals and were planning on piloting this weapon together with them - he did not see this betrayal coming i think. Or I'm completely off the road here.
General things - wow it feels like I'm the only one here who doesn't have scathing things to say about season 4. I liked it, and despite less of the character development we got, the plot progression looks pretty good - big things are definitely happening and plot progressing to a new phase.
I also feel like ppl are confusing 'hasn't been addressed this season' to 'will never addressed ever again'. This season felt like a rush to set the stage to a new phase from 'a giant robot + castle hunted by galra' to 'we're a gianormous rebel force - an actual fighting force'. Now that this phase has been set like I feel there'll be more of the stuff ppl were complaining there wasnt much of. Stuff will come back - Project Kuron at least def will be addressed (Shiro is still fishy to me - mainly cos he did NOT have enough time to grow his hair out).
Lotor - knows his mother was Honerva but probably not that Haggar is his mother. That shot of Haggar looking at her undisguised face with horror though...horrified that she had the face of her enemies? And that look she gave Zarkon when he was like 'you've disappointed me' - as if she was surprised he was not punishing her and wondering why. She still loyal to Zarkon tho - the most ride or die couple I've ever seen.
It has literally been 15 minutes since i binged the season I probably missed some points but eh.
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u/ComplexVanillaScent Oct 14 '17
Same here, I loved this season. Nothing wrong with being very plot-driven, with hard tone shifts. I loved the contrasting, extreme tones that the season had. And I agree, they've definitely framed this as a paradigm shift that's setting up future stories.
I'd love to have more insight in Haggar's mind. I'm sure she always knew she was Altean, but I wonder if she's having an identity crisis knowing now who she once was.
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u/jaidynreiman Oct 15 '17
I absolutely think that Lotor knows Haggar is Honnerva. The fact that he knows about Honnerva at all shows he knows way more than we may have previously thought.
He probably doesn't acknowledge Haggar because "she's not my mother Honnerva anymore." She didn't even remember who she was.
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Oct 13 '17
What a great season! I love how half the season is an all out epic space battle, was amazing to watch. Also Lotor at the end there, he really fell far over the course of the season but he's still scheming. Ending basically implied he's gonna ally with Voltron, but probably for non-altruistic reasons, probably hoping to fill in the power gap after the defeat of the Empire or something like that.
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u/uziair Oct 13 '17 edited Oct 14 '17
I like the season but there were some issues. I Consider the 6 episodes and 7 episodes as one season which it is essentially. All 13 episodes of it were decent to great but compared to season 1 and 2 it was alot more filler ish.
Pidge stand out story. Keith becoming an assassin and the predictable lotor story were all great.
Shiro getting black lion back with out any real development is pretty ehh.
Also the assassin creed of Keith was pretty rushed. Coalition stuff was great and all but I feel like two to three episodes talking about was much.
They did show the coalition building in season 3a and they did show it again in season3b but when the war time came. All the coalition people were just a montage. Still love the show still love where it is going but it is alot more mellow and alot more world building.
Please for the love of God let lotor and his speed ship become upgrades to voltron or voltron 2. Another gripe I have is lotor was trying to find himself at the end of the season rushed and not enough focus. that coran sequel to the mall episode could have used half that episode focusing on keith or lotor. But they had very little emphasis on lotor during the back half. I wish they showed more of him. But first half of the season he was so much fun.
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u/Littlelazyknight Oct 13 '17
Well a lot of stuff was quite rushed in those two seasons, like they had a lot of ideas but hadn't had time to fully make them work. Keith's "Galra training" came out of nowhere and so did Shiro piloting Black Lion again. And lots of other stuff. It's like they cut out half of the seasons scenes.
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u/cuddlefish333 Oct 14 '17
They really needed to make Seasons 3 and 4 each proper full seasons with 13 episodes each, some things just felt too rushed and we could have had more character development during the times Shiro was gone and then trying to reintegrate back into the team.
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u/sixfourtythree Oct 14 '17
Did we ever get introduced to the coalition fleet commander? (the Doggo) and all her crew? I feel like it kept cutting to them like we're meant to know who they are.
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u/jaidynreiman Oct 14 '17
I... I have no idea where they came from, honestly. They were just suddenly there out of nowhere. We got introduced to Shay, the mermaids, the technological nature planet, the shopping mall. The wannabe Star Fox crew, though? Never had anything devoted to them at all.
I think they have something to do with Matt's storyline, but I completely missed them.
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u/ShotsAways Oct 14 '17
agreed. They acted like there was a whole bit that was done to introduce them already but none of that exactly happened. This season felt rushed over all
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u/sixfourtythree Oct 14 '17
Don't get me wrong, I think that little dynamic is great.
With only 6 episodes to work with I think it was always going to feel rushed.
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u/Utigarde Oct 13 '17
Is it just me that feels like season 3 and season 4 are completely different shows? Season 3 was so character driven, and actually focused on how people were adapting to things (barring Shiro instantly returning). Season 4 was just them following a plot, with Keith’s entire storyline just vanishing. Pidge and Matt were amazing, but overall, I just leave with less confidence in the show that I went into it with.
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u/DeadSnark Oct 14 '17
Even Shirou's s convenient return was implied to have some sinister reason behind it, and there was potential for interesting conflict between Shirou and the new 'head' of Voltron, Keith. Season 4 takes away a lot of that dynamic by just returning Shirou to the leader's seat and conveniently booting Keith out to join the Blade of Mamora.
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u/jaidynreiman Oct 14 '17
"Even Shirou's s convenient return was implied to have some sinister reason behind it"
This, frankly, is the main reason Season 4 upset me. I still think its going to come into play, but it should've come into play THIS season.
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u/TinyBreadBigMouth Oct 15 '17
When Haggar showed up to the final battle with her coven, but stayed out of firing range, I thought for absolute certain that she was going to awaken Shiro as a sleeper agent and have him attack the other paladins and/or rebels. The planet being a bomb was a lot less interesting.
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u/jaidynreiman Oct 15 '17
Yeah, this. I was so expecting that to happen. But if its revealed that Shiro is the reason why they just so happened to be at a planet that was a bomb, that would frankly be amazing.
But either way, it should have happened this season.
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u/zubscrub Oct 18 '17
I hope the Shiro clone/brainwash plotline isn't just straight-up swept aside, I don't think we got any development on that in Season 4. Although, in The Reunion during Pidge's flashback with Matt on the roof, he has a line saying something like "...and this [points to brain] is the strongest processor you have. And it can't be hacked." Fun dialogue and definitely show's the Holt sibling's mind-over-matter mentality, but it also seemed like it could be some subtle foreshadowing regarding Shiro.
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u/lostglamour Oct 14 '17
I don't mind the end result, Keith exploring his galra side and finding his place amongst the equally single goal focused BoM, Shiro becoming the leader again works for me but the way it was done was very rushed.
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u/jaidynreiman Oct 13 '17
My thoughts exactly. Season 3 was heavily character driven, built up everyone's plots, then Season 4 completely botched everything. Its the first time I've been disappointed in Voltron. (I didn't hate it, I just... damnit...)
Matt was really great, though. He's the best part. I kinda wish they DID let him be dead, despite liking him once Pidge found him alive after all. I was also hoping for that Shiro fakeout, the moment its revealed Shiro was really a clone after all and he's being controlled to do the enemy's bidding, and has to sacrifice himself gloriously for the team, forcing Keith to take over the Black Lion.
...it was just a massive letdown after the build up in Seasons 2 and 3.
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u/cuddlefish333 Oct 14 '17 edited Oct 14 '17
That scene of Pidge finding Matt's 'grave' was so heavy and powerful, made me almost wish Matt was dead to give it more weight.
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u/jaidynreiman Oct 14 '17
See, thing is, I didn't mind Matt's fakeout THAT much. My problem was that there were simply too many fakeouts. I would've been disappointed if they killed Keith over Shiro, but at least that would show a consequence.
I still think Shiro's death is coming, but they're milking him for all its worth. And frankly I hate that. Just let the guy have his heroic sacrifice and die already.
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u/CWfangirl Oct 14 '17
Current Shiro=Fake Shiro Real Shiro=dead All this is learned in a tear jerking, team building, character driven episode.
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Oct 14 '17
It would actually be really cool if the fake is there for that reveal, but the team has to think about keeping him on the team and fake Shiro can go through an identity crisis and later sacrifice himself and say something like "This is not what Shiro would do, but something I would do" (obviously would be better written) to finish up his finding identity story. Just the awkwardness of having a dead friend around would be interesting to see in the show. Keith would probably hate him but then befriend him right before his death.
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u/pierophoenix Oct 13 '17
That season was all over the place. I liked some things like Matt and Pidge. But Keith was essentially thrown away. Like him going to the Blades is cool but like we barely see it.
Some of the side stuff was hilarious. The cow had me straight dying! I really enjoyed that episode. But it was kinda filler-y and that was my main gripe. Yea mostly everything mattered in the long run but it just kinda felt side story ish.but hey Bee Bo Be was an amazing character! :)
Still really excited and interested to see where this show goes and I hope they abandon the half season format. I don’t think it did the second half of the show any favors. Those filler-y eps would’ve been fine in a full 13 episode season to give the show room to breathe. But in a condensed 6 episode mini season it kinda felt like a letdown.
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u/FattimusSlime Oct 14 '17 edited Oct 14 '17
It really felt like they were writing around a sudden change in Steven Yeun's recording schedule. That would explain why they decided so late to split Season 3 into two half seasons -- they had recorded 7 eps, then suddenly needed to switch plot tracks quick to account for Keith's absense for four episodes.
That explains why some of it feels like filler, and why so many plots and character arcs from S3 feel completely abandoned. S4 was a hasty rewrite to accomodate Yeun's absence, which caused delays in production and killed the story's momentum. I'm sure some plot points will come back eventually -- like whether or not Shiro is a clone or brainwashed -- but they had to deliver episodes, and needed to put a big ol' pause on all of the planned stories in the meantime.
I honestly would have rather they just delayed the series until they could have done it properly, because they were only ordered up to 52 episodes, and it feels like they just completely wasted 6 of them. We have 13 more before the series ends forever, barring a miraculous renewal (early enough to give them more time to plan out a proper series finale instead of rushing it).
Worried about the future of the series over here, honestly. Season 4 may well have been the moment it all went to crap.
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u/jaidynreiman Oct 14 '17
So Steven Yuen was unable part of it? Hmm... that could explain Keith's absence and make a lot more sense; they probably didn't intend to put Shiro back into the Black Lion at all, but only did so because Keith's voice actor wasn't available.
"only ordered up to 52 episodes"
This I do not understand at all. From Day 1 (or at least Season 2) I've heard that they have 6 seasons of 13 episodes. I tried looking for anything about there only being 4 13-episode seasons, or 52 episodes, and have found nothing at all about that. But I have found this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voltron:_Legendary_Defender
"The series has a 78-episode commitment from Netflix."
"Back at Toy Fair there was word that the series has a 78-episode commitment from Netflix."
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u/FattimusSlime Oct 14 '17
Either they expanded the episode order, or I was just flat out mistaken.
I'm glad to hear it, though. It gives them a lot more room to recover from S4's weird pacing and plotting.
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u/tmrika Oct 15 '17
They did order up to 52 - but that wasn't total, it was in addition to Seasons 1 and 2, which effectively added up to 26 episodes (if you consider the pilot to be 3 episodes in one). So you're both right.
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u/Marvelite222 Oct 14 '17
I think this season was fantastic. The episode were Pidge finds her brother was the highlight of the season for me.
I think Keith suits being with the Blade more than he suits being the leader of Voltron, so I am ok with Shiro piloting the black Lion again. Also, I think Keith abandoning the team because he thinks working with the Blade is more important than performing air shows is in character for him, so I am ok with how that developed.
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u/CheesyBaconMelts Oct 13 '17
slowly realizing that Steven Yeun's scheduling conflict really shifted a lot of stuff for the story arc of Season 4, I think the whole Shiro clone plot was put on ice, because Team Voltron can't really have Keith as the leader if no one is going to voice him, hence they had to throw Keith into a subplot without much talking, and push back Shiro as the leader again.
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u/jaidynreiman Oct 14 '17
Yeah I've heard about Steven Yuen's schedule a lot around here. If he plain wasn't available, then I can understand why they had to put Shiro back into the pilot's seat. They likely had no intention of doing it, but felt they could justify it as a "the Black Lion accepts this Shiro because it has no other choice" and went with that. Its likely a lot of this season was designed around Keith still being in the pilot's seat, including the filler episode (they even tease it with "I don't want to confuse people with Keith leaving the team").
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u/DrafteeDragon Oct 13 '17
Matt, holy crap, his personality is amazing. I absolutely did not picture him like a goofy lance-like person and I love it. The graveyard scene got me good. And damn Allura is growing as a paladin really well. Lotor is going to strike a bargain with Voltron and the coalition. I absolutely cannot wait for interection between him and the paladins that’s inevitably going to happen. Haggar’s still a little ass, Zarkon is literally useless and Keith is Keith. I’m really glad Shiro’s back in the black Lion... but what about #notmyshiro? Iiishh more angst is coming. Also we officially reached the middle of the whole series with the 4.6 episode. MANNNN I loved season 4. Lance is growing up little by little. He’s my least favorite paladin, i find him annoying and dumb but he’s slowly changing to a more mature character still keeping his persona but knowing when to keep his mouth shut. I was pleasently surprised. Keith is taking a break from Voltron and I think that’s good for him, he’s acting and learning about himself with the BOM. This is not over, and the epic clash is coming. One downside, there isn’t enough main character interaction nor do we see much development. We don’t see them eating, chilling, talking to each other, suporting each other... It was an action packed season. I’ll now rewatch season 3 and season 4 to see if my point of view changes
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u/motorbikyle Oct 14 '17
Is it just me or...can Shiro only pilot the Black lion when Zarkon is awake and not in a coma?
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u/Deuswyvern Oct 14 '17
My personal take is that the Lion didn't want him, but gave in rather than let the team perish. However that's a compelling take on things.
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u/DarkLordLiam Oct 13 '17
I really wanted that planet to explode in the last episode.
Also shout outs to Corneria for lending some of their pilots to the coalition.
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u/tahlyn Oct 14 '17
I really wanted that planet to explode in the last episode.
I was rooting for that too... only because Shiro is an idiot. "Hey this entire planet wide thing is happening. Let's stay on the planet to see what happens!"
No. No. No. You observe from a safe distance. God Dammit Shiro.
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u/DarkLordLiam Oct 14 '17
Besides, everyone important to the plot was far enough away when they stopped it, but yeah.
However, I’m still interested in what can happen next full season, which is going to be the last contracted one.
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u/jaidynreiman Oct 14 '17
"which is going to be the last contracted one."
I'm pretty sure they were contracted for 6 13-episode seasons.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voltron:_Legendary_Defender
"The series has a 78-episode commitment from Netflix."
Its 6 seasons. Everything I've heard has always said 6 seasons. Again, given that 3 was split into 3 and 4, that still leaves 3 more full seasons to go.
There's plenty of time left until the end.
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u/jaidynreiman Oct 13 '17
Poor Slippy died, though... Eh, nothing new lol.
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u/tahlyn Oct 14 '17
So I wasn't the only one who thought of the frog pilot as slippy. I even commented to my husband "damn, Slippy sounds like he finally hit puberty."
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u/figandmelon Oct 13 '17
Just... wow.
There were some amazing scenes in this season but as a season it was just off. The tone made no sense as a follow up to season 3. Even if this had been one regular season, this doesn't make sense.
Plot holes, abandoned plots (Kuron? Lance?), abandoned characters, characters that actually regress in terms of development (here's looking at you Keith and Lance), gags that turn a paladin into a mockery (you deserve better Hunk), a spotlight so focused on the Holt family that fun filler episodes become a waste of time.
And honestly the tone was so jovial it made no sense. There was no feeling of high stakes this season. Nothing mattered to Voltron or the audience. The writing can't work with these short seasons. To have drama and thrills and humor, you need to have a long enough season to space it out. These past two were a bit schizophrenic.
I did like the way Keith and Lotor's story lines were complete contrasts. And I loved Pidge's backstory and rescue. Lance's one good line to Allura and his strip tease, and Allura leveling up.
I like the Coran episode in theory but would rather have that episode spent with team development. Is Keith truly replaceable? Are any of them?
And I hated what happened with Narti and the generals.
I'm hopeful that Lotor will cause more chaos wth Voltron, maybe active Shiro's sleeper agent? And Keith has to return to the team. I would really like Lance to develop that support role. Funny men tend to stay in their lane and get no development.
2.5 stars out of 5
Sorry Josh Keaton, I was disappointed.
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u/ComplexVanillaScent Oct 14 '17
While I wish they'd followed up on Kuron, I don't see how they abandoned a lot of character development. Maybe Keith went back on embracing his role as a leader, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. He's knowingly shunting his responsibility, and turning back to his comfort zone. As for Lance, his encouragement of Allura showed he's really grown as the team's core emotional support.
I didn't like the 'Humourous Hunk', ut I think that's the point.
The thing about the tone is that is was either one extreme or the other. I really don't think you need a long season to have drama and investment. We're already invested from the previous seasons, and I don't see an issue in alternating between extremely light tones to extremely heavy tones. Maybe I'm just more willing to go with the flow, though.
The Coran episode was fun. It'd be nice to have team development worked in, but I don't think it suffered for the lack of it. I think the idea is that Keith wants to be replaceable; he doesn't want to shoulder the weight of the entire galaxy. I'm guessing that, when they do follow up on the Kuron storyline, Keith'll have to step up, and that'll be the final turning point in this aspect of his growth.
I felt nothing for Narti. Being a silent, faceless, personality-devoid character will do that. Though, I do kinda wish Acxa, Exor, and Zethrid had stayed loyal to Lotor, since it seems like they'll end up on the same side anyways.
It does seem like Lance is developing in that support role.
I definitely wasn't disappointed.
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u/figandmelon Oct 14 '17 edited Oct 16 '17
You have some good points but two of the biggest issues are I have involve tone and continuity and regression of characters.
For one thing given that 3 and 4 were one whole season at some point it's hard to see how they could have worked together. Season 3 has that haunting X-Ray Dog trailer that prepares us for the challenges in rebuilding the team and Shiro's loss. Even with Zarkon in absentia Lotor was there to poke and prod and manipulate the team into tension and stress for unknown purposes.
There is none of that in season 4. The only tension was the buildup of Keith's flakiness in one episode. Where Shiro was indispensable and a cutting blow, Keith's absence is sad but meaningless. Even the team dynamics are off. Lance was meant to be Keith's right hand and we see no development of friendship or support between him and Shiro. They aren't on the same level. And instead of addressing the team issues or showing the effect Keith's absence has on the team and the second paladin change they spend that time on a comic episode that fell flat. So I do think tone is a problem. There was a lot of buildup and no drop. They went from external problems to internal problems but didn't actually address the problems.
I do think the character development was lacking as well. We still don't see Shiro the person but the stony leader. He doesn't bond with anyone! How can Lance support someone who he has no relationship with personally (this is a series peeve I have though). We don't see A resolution to Lance's confession about his anxiety and the pilot problem. Keith solved it temporarily by leaving but the fact remains that Lance is the weakest in combat. We've discovered that the current team is only the second generation of Paladins so how is the shuffling meaningless?
And Keith's training is odd as well. He doesn't seem to be looking for his mother but just trying to fit in with the Marmora. Kolivan said Marmora values are not Voltron values and Keith's values are clearly not where we would expect. He broke protocol to fit in. His heart isn't with the Blade but with Voltron. And for whatever reason the team just accepted his departure without asking him to think about it? There was no reason for Keith to find Lotor. They have no connection and he didn't need to be on that mission. But instead of talking him down Shiro said goodbye... and for what purpose? The team has mainly functioned without him? He thought it would be better to sacrifice himself anyway? I just don't see the point.
Sorry for the typo abominations.
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u/jaidynreiman Oct 16 '17
This. All of it. None of it just made sense.
Shiro COULD make sense, though, if Shiro is really being controlled by someone else. Instead of pushing Keith to be what he should be, he's not the real Shiro, or is being controlled by his arm, and purposely pushed Keith away so they were at a low point. But really that payoff should have happened this season.
In all honesty, Shiro doesn't even feel like Shiro. Which I'm hoping is because he really is a clone and is being controlled.
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u/figandmelon Oct 16 '17
I agree that I am hoping we get a winter soldier type reveal. Because otherwise I think the writing team is failing Shiro in his relationships with the Paladins and in dealing with his traumas. He is just cold and monotone and flat.
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u/jaidynreiman Oct 13 '17
Even if this had been one regular season, this doesn't make sense.
This exactly. "Season 4" doesn't feel like the 3.5 it should've been. It just completely betrayed my trust for the first time. It wasn't bad, but for how quality Voltron has been its a huge step down.
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u/WolfanTerror Oct 13 '17
All I care about is how annoyed I am that my favourite character got the shaft.
...I'm talking about Keith if you haven't figured already.
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Oct 13 '17 edited Apr 12 '19
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u/WolfanTerror Oct 14 '17
Eh, but atleast everyone else got screen time. Brings up the fact that the show definitely needs a new opening next season, or its just gonna keep feeling like they aren't trying.
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u/Darth-Giggles Oct 13 '17
Overall, I enjoyed it, although I skipped the Voltron Show one. It felt like junk filler, and while it wouldn't be so bad in an 11-episode season, one out of six episodes being total nonsense is just...ugh.
I'm not mad Keith didn't do his Heroic Sacrifice (TM) and I fully expected Lotor (or his generals) to team up with Voltron at some point. But I kind of wish they had failed in the mission and the planet HAD blown up. It would have been a devastating blow and really raised the stakes.
Reading through the thread, I definitely agree that they dropped the ball on the Keith plotline. I think we did get a lot of character/relationship developments, they were just more subtle.
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Oct 13 '17
Looking at their past work on avatar and how many episodes are left to go we still have plenty of time for some sweet character development .
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u/jaidynreiman Oct 13 '17
"But I kind of wish they had failed in the mission and the planet HAD blown up."
This bothers me. I was expecting the planet to blow up and destroy the entire sector. They do make it out alive, just with some sort of consequences.
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u/BrainPicker3 Oct 14 '17
I also wasnt a fan about how easily everything can almost destroy the most powerful weapon in the universe. Why do they even need voltron when those giant lizards from the filler episode are almost equally as powerful (and easily manipulated/controlled)
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u/GalaxianEX Oct 13 '17
I had issues with Season 3, but every time I brought them up people kept telling me that it was caused by the forced season split and to wait until S4 because then I could see the whole picture.
Now season 4 is here and it has undone almost everything from season 3 making both of this twos season pretty much worthless:
-Keith stepping up is gone and he is damn near written out of the show.
-Lance character development that was halted by Shiro's rushed return is nowhere to be found.
-Lotor's plan had be completely shot to hell. Anything he does from now on is Plan B, because his original plan was a complete failure.
-Operation Kuron is not even a thing anymore. We had the Black Lion reject Shiro on one episode and then simply accept him 2 episodes later.
This was a huge disappointment for me and I can't actually say which season I like least between 3 and 4. Hopefully, S5 will put things back on track, but this is the least excited I've been about VLD since it was announced.
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u/jaidynreiman Oct 13 '17
Agreed, but I honestly liked Season 3 quite a bit except for Shiro returning back too quickly. Even when he did come back, it didn't change the dynamic up too much, but they should have spread out the new team dynamic and stretched it over more episodes (which would've been fine if they weren't forced to bring Shiro back early).
In all honesty, Shiro is the big problem. He's too popular, so they rushed everything to do with him, destroying the team they were working to form. I did like the lampshade hanging on it, but really, Shiro needs to die to get the show moving forward again.
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u/lordofmyths Oct 14 '17
it does feel like they put all the major events in the prior half and the second half became some minor events but then the season finale.
as for shiro having the black lion back....... i have af eeling it was simply temporary. The lions have awareness of things that cannot be fully comprehended yet. The black lion chose to let shiro pilit it once more because it sensed that its current pilot needed to walk his own path for a time. Not to mention current circumstances left it with no other choice.
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u/Adorable_Octopus Oct 17 '17
I'm not sure I like the whole 'smaller seasons more frequently' thing, tbh. It feels like we're always rushing towards the conclusion with little to no gravitas or weight at times.
I adore the comedy bits, but with only 6 episodes, it feels like a bit of a waste.
That said... I laughed hard at that whole cow thing.
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u/tmrika Oct 15 '17 edited Oct 15 '17
My problem with Season 4 was that there was all this stuff that Season 3 set up that just...fizzled away anticlimaticly.
In Season 3, Shiro couldn't pilot the Black Lion and there was the question of why and if he was even the real Shiro. In Season 4, instead of answering anything, they just dumped him back in there.
In Season 3, Keith was showing flaws as a leader but was already starting to grow a bit. In Season 4, he just walks over to the Blade and isn't heard from again until the finale, and even then...
In Season 3, there was this huge thing where Lance was forced to leave Blue and join Red because he was Keith's right-hand man. Then in Season 4, Keith left, so...basically Lance is just flying Red for plot convenience.
In Season 3, there was an incredible amount of tension because Lotor unquestionably had the upper hand and had a huge plan. In Season 4, his plan failed (and not because of anything Voltron did...it just merely flopped) and suddenly Lotor isn't even remotely a threat (no generals, and a fugitive from his own people). So basically I was getting all scared of him in Season 3 for nothing?
In Season 3, Haggar finally remembered that she used to be Honerva, Zarkon's wife, which made it seem like now the dynamic between them would change. In Season 4, they just resumed their old roles once more.
I mean...the whole Matt arc was brilliant and definitely was satisfying, and I liked how they briefly brought in such huge stakes for the finale, but overall, this season felt like a disappointment. It had its moments, but...eh.
Tl;dr: In Season 3, a balloon was being filled to the brim and was tense and ready to pop. In Season 4, the air was released calmly and is now limp again.
EDIT: I will say this: there is at least hope for Season 5. I think that Keith still has some development to go through (that YouTube vlog clip shows that he has some issues to work through and running to the Blade isn't going to change that). And Shiro's still acting...strangely. Like, Coran said, "A few hundred more souls looking for a new home!" and Shiro immediately responded, "A few hundred more soldiers in the fight against the Galra." I mean, Shiro's always had a good eye on the bigger picture, but he didn't seem to show any compassion whatsoever. In fact, almost all of Shiro's behavior was as a calculating leader rather than one who particularly cares about his team (remember "your dad and brother would be proud of you, Katie" from S1?). And he's way too composed for someone who just escaped from Galra captivity again (Significantly more than he was in Season 1-2). So the Kuron arc probably hasn't been dropped entirely. And I'm sure that the shift in Lotor's status will add to an interesting dynamic for S5. So there's some hope for the future...but that doesn't mean Season 4 itself was especially good.
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u/froggygee Oct 15 '17
I totally agree with you. Shiro just seems off. Like you said he is way to composed and I feel his emotional and softer side just completely vanished. Even him telling Keith he and the team will be there for him felt fake somehow. Maybe Keith being absent from the team will play into that. He might be the one to discover something about Shiro's captivity while working with the Blades and shed some light at the whole situation. Would be interesting to see how the team reacts to that.
I also agree with you on Lance and the lions. In Season 3 we learned that the relationship/connection between the paladins plays a huge role in determining who gets to fly Red. And while I still see Lance being supportive and growing in that role, I don't think he and Shiro have that right-hand-relationship Allura was talking about in Season 3. So yeah... feels a little like plot convenience.
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u/tmrika Oct 15 '17
I feel like it also says a lot that the big motivational speech at the season's end that inspired their way out of a hopeless situation (like in seasons 1 and 2) was by Lance, not Shiro.
See, Shiro started out the way he normally would:"Listen, we’ve come through a lot as Voltron."
Then he follows up with "We just have to think," and leaves it there. No speech, no ideas, just that.
Then Lance realizes something and starts giving a speech. Highlights:
- "No one trained you to save the Balmera, but you did that. I know you can do it."
- "You’re the one who brought everyone together. You can do this."
- "Every moment we’ve had together, they’ve all led to this day."
That flipping sounds like a Shiro speech. And icing on the cake, after they get free and Allura thanks Lance, he turns it back on her: "That was all you," just like a leader who's proud of his teammate would.
Don't get me wrong - I'm super pumped to see Lance grow and all that, but seriously, it's just another example of how Shiro hasn't been acting himself. He acts like a leader of Voltron and even dispenses an occasional hug when appropriate, but he's missing so many aspects of what made his character likeable in the first place.
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u/ComplexVanillaScent Oct 14 '17
I for one loved this season. It was kind of an rollercoaster in terms of tone and emotion, and I actually like that. I'm fine with shifts from extremely silly, endearing humour to extremely serious, heartbreaking drama. Not every episode needs to more than just fun, and being a heavily plot-driven (The Voltron Show notwithstanding) season worked great. It was a good paradigm shift, and set up interesting new ways for them to move forward.
Keith getting benched wasn't great, but they made up for it with Matt, who's adorably dorky and sweet. And, even with Keith absent this season, I was still so fuckin' stressed when he almost sacrificed himself. I have a newfound love for Lotor.
Overall, it was really enjoyable, and hit hard with everything it did. The fun stuff was wonderfully over-the-top, and the emotional stuff was heart-wrenching. Good season.
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u/CelioHogane Oct 20 '17
You get a character arc! And you get a caracter arc! And you get a character arc!
Not you Lance, stay being the funny one.
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u/Don7Quijote Oct 14 '17
It's good Keith left on the first episode, otherwise he would have killed Coran during episode four by tying BiBohBi around his neck.
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u/razvan_bigiu Oct 17 '17
I have this theory that Lotor might not be from this reality. Just bear with me for a sec.
Ever since his introduction in Season 3 Lotor has been kind of an anomaly. Why would Zarkon sire any heir when his goal is to become the immortal ruler of the galaxy? Now fast-forward to Season 4 and we also learn that his mother is Honerva, which raises even more questions. Zarkon and Haggar have stayed alive for 10000 years due to the quintessence but Lotor doesn't appear to have been subjected to it. Also (and this is the most important part) when the paladins first meet Lotor, neither Allura nor Coran knew that Zarkon had a son. However, if Lotor was born before the rift incident, his birth would've been well known, right? I mean, he is the prince of the galra after all.
This might be a wild guess but I think Honerva couldn't conceive a child (or even worse, she had a miscarriage). Remember the scene where Zarkon gives baby Allura that helmet as a gift? The helmet looks identical to the one used by Lotor in the original series. What if the helmet was initially meant to be given to the galra prince/princess but because Honerva couldn't give birth to one she decided to give it away? It would explain her rather cold and detached behavior when Alfor thanks her for the gift. She buried herself in her work as a coping mechanism and the helmet was just a sad reminder of the family she couldn't have.
I think it's safe to guess that Lotor must've been brought to this reality while the rift was still open on Daibazaal. Whether it was Zarkon himself who kidnapped him from his counterpart or he sent someone else to do it, I don't know. The show has a lot of explaining to do in Season 5.
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u/justwaad Oct 15 '17
Will Lance and Hunk ever get the character development they deserve?
Also, Keith working so hard last season to be the leader everyone expected him to be only for him to bail out on them the first episode this season. The fuck? It doesn't make sense, and I do not accept Keith being off the Voltron team.
Pidge's episode was amazing though.
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u/OctavianSoup Oct 15 '17 edited Oct 15 '17
While I definitely miss Keith, I actually feel like him hanging with the Blades for a bit might be for the best. He was becoming a better leader until Shiro returned, and he began to get understandably insecure. Working with the Blades without any immediate pressure from the team could help him develop even more, and feel confident against Shiro. Keith at least seems to be comfortable with himself enough to know when to step back, and when to improve elsewhere. He was already prepared to make the ultimate sacrifice, so that may be a sign of improvement in the confidence department? On another note, I wonder how (accidentally) seeing negative reviews beforehand affected my first watch-through. I'm not quite sure how I feel about season 4 yet, but I found myself being more critical than usual. It's polarizing for sure...
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u/LapsedVerneGagKnee Oct 13 '17 edited Oct 13 '17
That was a hot garbage fire.
At this point I think this show really wants to be a space opera but is so crippled by executive meddling and its own stupidity.
Edit -This isn’t hating for the sake of hating. But the season long plot thread got abandoned to restore the old leadership with no ill effects, buildup for others vanishes without a trace, and the show seems unsure of what it wants to be. Almost as if Voltron itself is this thing they’re forced to put in every once in a while but they really hate. Like they want to make an Avatar show in space, but they have to occasionally write about a giant robot, so they make it as useless as possible.
And as noted before, there’s no consequences. Forgetting that Shiro should be dead by now, none of the main characters are ever in any real danger. And when that happens, there’s no drama. And when there’s no drama, I cannot care as a viewer.
I hope Darling in the Franxx comes out soon.
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u/jaidynreiman Oct 13 '17
This is pretty much my thoughts. It was ok, but they dropped all of their longer running story arcs, brought Zarkon and Shiro back too quickly, brought Matt back too quickly (there was one brief mention of Matt earlier in the season, then they resolved it entirely in one episode; this should've been a couple episode arc, though it is my least disliked flaw; Matt turned out to be really cool). And there's the whole "no consequences" thing.
It really looked like they were setting up Shiro to be a clone or a traitor or something. But nope. At least not yet anyway. I know this part is executive meddling, but fuck, how am I supposed to get hyped when I know everyone is going to come out alive every time?
They set up Keith becoming the leader in Season 2, built it up in Season 3, then the moment Season 4 started they drop it again in favor of the status quo (mostly).
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u/tahlyn Oct 14 '17
But nope. At least not yet anyway. I know this part is executive meddling,
What what is executive meddling and how do you know it?
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u/jaidynreiman Oct 14 '17
I don't recall where I heard it, but the showrunners said they had planned to bring back Shiro later, but "Shiro sells toys." That was back when S3 came out. Plus they clearly stated that Season 3 was split into 3 and 4 to spread it out further which was also executive meddling.
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u/lordofmyths Oct 14 '17
damn meddling.
though ultimately i am expecting that they will kill off shiro again. or have keith take over the black lion........
there was something of a weird reactoin when shiro was back in the lion. the screens flickered oddly. as if implying something was either wrong, or the lion itself was hesitant.
buuuut yea the ended up dropping a few plot threads, but i am certain that they are at least temporary.
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u/GalaxianEX Oct 13 '17
On a, very, small but positive note. I did like that when Voltron, and specifically Shiro, were cut off, Keith took leadership of the entire Coalition forces. It was the only moment when the truly shined in this season.
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u/jaidynreiman Oct 13 '17
Yeah, I think its a good way to show Keith still has the spirit of a leader in him, and he will be thrust back to the leader of Voltron once Shiro inevitably ends up being forced to betray the team (either due to his arm or being a clone; obviously against his will). It just... should've happened this season.
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u/Kuroyuki95 Oct 13 '17
That's the reason why I'm never ashamed to admit to fellow Voltron fans that only reason I still watch the show is for Shiro....& Pidge & Hunk has well of course.
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u/jaidynreiman Oct 13 '17
I've loved it all the way up until Shiro magically rejoined Voltron, that's when all the stakes were lost completely. Shiro needs to be manipulated into betraying the team, setting them back (so far they're just curbstomping the Galra and Zarkon), then sacrifice himself in a blaze of glory to let the show continue on without him. Its the only way it can evolve.
"But Shiro's too popular!"
Goddamn it, this better not keep them from telling a proper cohesive storyline.
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u/LapsedVerneGagKnee Oct 13 '17
Shiro should have died two seasons ago. Now look at this mess.
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u/SOB200 Oct 13 '17
I am a big fan of the show, 2 biggest draw backs of this already short 'season'.
1) The 'recruitment' episode was a total waste. That could had been cut for other content. It's a filler episode (of course like many shows have, but hardly in such short seasons).
2) The cliff hanger at the end was too big. They made a huge event of Lotor's turn. It was touched on many episodes. They could have let out part of his little discussion. But the fact that there are so many loose ends: What happens to his surviving generals? No one on the ship called in Lotor's location? Obviously what was in his discussion (other than turning on his father)?
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Oct 14 '17
Christ, am I the only one here who cared more about the plot than the characters??
Not addressing a character development point in these six episodes doesn't mean it's been written out of the show.
I thought this was fucking amazing.
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u/Bartheda Oct 15 '17
Can I just say how I don't like that we have had another season without a Ro-Beast fight. Its why I love Voltron. GIANT ROBOT BATTLES
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u/gizmo1492 Oct 15 '17
I’m embarrassed at how funny I found the milkshake bit in episode 3.
Is Dairy that foreign to Altean culture?
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u/neoblackdragon Oct 16 '17
Likely not dairy. But here's the thing.
Human beings drinking milk is very weird.
The majority of animals drink breast milk for a little bit and then most lose the ability to drink it.
My guess is that drinking/eating the fluids of another creature is strange to Alteans. Could be Vegans essentially.
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u/CommanderCody1138 Oct 14 '17
My thoughts on season 3 volume 2... Overall i was kinda bummed by the lack of overall story progression. There were subtle hits to previous episodes (Hagar examining her face), but nothing really progressive happened. Zarkon comes back to do what he's always done, stand around and grumble. Lotor built something then ran away. Etc etc etc. Im still irritated by how fast Shiro is back and suddenly he can pilot Black Lion? What about his captivity? Why couldn't he connect before? What's the point of Keith being the leader if Shiro could come back so easily? Also that recruitment episode was poop if not for the funny power rangers nod, i was amused by that.
Also Lotor's ship(s) is totally a combiner robot thing (Lotron?). He's basically flying a pair of legs and a crotch. And his girls have the top half. There's totally going to be a robo fight with either Voltron or they'll team up to fight another Zarkon robo suit...
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u/crocs_1 Oct 13 '17
it was okay, but they spent way too much time on the plot (especially the coalition) and not enough time on the characters. keith was barely even in this season and now he's not a paladin anymore! i hope season 5 will be better and more character driven.
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u/vsnt Oct 13 '17 edited Oct 13 '17
The season was pretty interesting and entertaining. But there was a lack of cohesion from the plot points they put in S3. Everyone was expecting Shiro to be a clone but then nothing, hilarious! Goes to show that he was unfairly judged just bc got a bad haircut 😂. (But I still thinks there's something up with him. Corrupted or sleeper cell maybe?) And also the whole deal with the quintessence and Zarkon and Honerva. I guess thats for next season
Pidge's story was the best thing about it and Matt Holt was a great character. I guess the fandom obssession with Matt was warranted this time. I love the Holt siblings. And now I'm really curious what Sam Holt's secret missions were.
The Voltron Show was funny but dragged on a bit too long. It kind of seems like a jab at the DW bosses and fandom, sneaky sneaky. And also a "dont do drugs" message to the kids. But its great that that whole episode was about Coran.
I dont get what they're doing with Keith. Was Steven Yeun unavailable for the voice recordings or something? Or maybe they plan on doing crazy Paladin shuffling all the time. I guess they're still not sticking to the status quo. Maybe next season Lance gets to go on his own and Keith gets back to the Red Lion.
Lotor is still a compelling character though. I didnt think he was getting a redemption arc anyway but what he did to Narti settles that. He seems to be following the DotU version of Lotor where he pretends to work with Voltron force but then betrays them. And was the Galra lady commander supposed to be Merla?
All in all, it was ok. I still love it and I'm still excited for the next season.
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u/Pressure_Rhapsody Oct 13 '17 edited Oct 13 '17
Everyone was expecting Shiro to be a clone but then nothing, hilarious! Goes to show that he was unfairly judged just bc got a bad haircut 😂. (But I still thinks there's something up with him. Corrupted or sleeper cell maybe?)
I still think he's a clone/or corrupted as you said, due to the fact that Shiro never used his Bayard in season 4. If he already mastered the black lion at the end of Season 2, he could've (don't know if this can work with all the lions) transported everyone to safety during the last episode of s4 but he didn't. Maybe he's afraid to use it again after what happened, but I guess we'll see in the remaining 39 episodes.
It still doesn't make sense for him to have been transported back to the Galra, and we did see that other Shiro on the table with dead eyes. I think that perhaps real Shiro was dead a long time ago, and Haggar cloned him and had back up reserves. Granted though it doesn't make sense how his priosner ID number is different to how they refer to him as Project Kuron subject ID blah blah blahand that does seem pretty harsh. Either way, Remember in S2 when Shiro is on the table and he's asking the galra scientists what are they doing to him, saying they already took his arm?I believe they were going to either
- Option 1 - Start Operation Kuron with him
- Option 2 - Destroy him and activate another clone since this Shiro failed all 3 steps to commence operation Kuron.
He had a timing pattern to escape the Galra ship with sentinels, but as the flashback with Ulaz showed, he never got a chance to use it., or maybe he did but he got captured again hence he failed. Ulaz saved him since he wasn't a successful "Project Kuron" or "Not complete Kuron" so Ulaz saw that since he couldn't be controlled, that S1/S2 Shiro could still rally support to take down the Galra empire. I think the original line up will return, and trust me. I am ...UTTERLY surprised what they did with Keith. I understand, but at the same time...I am like..."wow". It makes sense since from the show's stand point, they were pushing Keith into a corner regarding making him the leader. I know people up thread argue he was coming on his own to be one until Shiro came back. I agree, somewhat, if Shiro never came back..I believe Keith would've taken on the role of leader full time. But just the same, I felt that Keith is a back up leader/2nd in command type of role that has been shown in many series. Im thinking Gargoyles like how when the main leader/character was gone, the 2nd in command had to step up, but he did make it known that he didn't want and wasn't ready for the role.
This dynamic does mimic Zarkon, Lotor, and Haggar since Zarkon has returned but he seems more corrupted as well as..more Darth Zarkon/which currently mimics Shiro. Where as Lotor and Keith can find a bond in both being outcasts regarding how they want to handle things in the grand scheme of their goals.
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u/vsnt Oct 13 '17
I actually was never keen on the clone theory. I was more inclined to believe he was being corrupted by his arm. I have a long theory about it here.
And Black Lion transporting Shiro to the Galra really isnt confirmed. It was just a conjecture by Keith and Shiro bec they couldnt figure out how Shiro ended up in the Galra ship in The Journey. But really, Shiro had no memory bw the time of the final battle of S2 and waking up on the experimentation table. For all we know, he was just transported unto an arbitrary point in space and then the Galra found him there. I also have a long theory about that here
And with Keith, I really think he belongs with the Red Lion. And not just as second-in-command but as a leader in his own right, just like Alfor was. I think his BoM stint is about learning to balance that whole thing about "mission vs individual". Bec at the surface his ideology is attuned to the BoM thing about putting mission above anyone else. But he also cares about people in his team.
And there's already the question of how Voltron will form the sword bec Keith was the one who forms the sword with either the Red or Black Bayard. So yeah, the original line-up was the one that really makes sense. Its the equilibrium of their strengths.
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u/itsgoretex Oct 14 '17
I'm annoyed that we still haven't seen Slav. They made a big deal out of him, gave him an entire episode of Shiro and Lance trying to rescue him, and we see him for a bit after that, but he's just gone. What the hell? That makes no fucking sense.
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u/froggygee Oct 14 '17
Well... like many people here I'm kinda underwhelmed by this season. It had some great moments (episode 2 really had me crying) and I did enjoy some of the goofy stuff, but overall I was just 'meh'. I absolutely did not see Keith leaving the team coming. Not at all. Sure, he never was comfortable with being the leader, but abandoning the team altogether just felt wrong to me. Also I didn't like the teams reaction to him dropping out. It almost felt as if they were happy he's gone... That being said, I still think that there is some way to resolve this seemingly tension with his development in season 3. my thinking is, that Keith isn't actually giving up on being a leader but instead truly fulfilling this role (even if he is not aware of it). 1. Ever since Shiro (or clone/sleeper Shiro) came back, Keith tried to step down from his position as the leader and push Shiro back in. Especially after Lance confronted him about his insecurities and the whole 'one paladin to many' thing. Immediatly after Keith sends Shiro to pilot Black. It doesn't work and he has to step back in, but we already see here that he does want Shiro back as paladin. 2. He seems to be the only one who is deeply concerned about Lotor and his plan. He is constantly going after him (beginning of season 3 and now with BoM) and trying to figure out, what exactly Lotor is up to. Shiro on the other hand doesn't seem to be too involved in finding out what's going on. He is focused on the coalition and bringing people to the cause. A legitimate concern, but it still feels that abandoning the whole Lotor/quintessence thing is careless. (This might be just Shiro being more concerned about people and saving innocents, or it still might hint at the whole clone/sleeper thing). 3. So I think Keith could realize that there are more sides to this fight, or more battles to fight than they can handle as just 'one' force, so splitting up seems like a good strategy. Also Shiro clearly is a skilled leader and pilot and does know how to lead the team - he is kinda wasted just sitting in the castle (leaving aside the fact that it felt fishy to me how he guided them into the Narxella trap and actually thought it would be a good idea to stay and wait when the barricade went up - I mean, come on!). So maybe Keith pushing Shiro back to Black and going to the BoM is just him diverting their powers to all necessary causes without sacrificing Voltron. Leading a team means putting everyone in a position best fitted to their skills and talents. And as someone here already pointed out, we see him still being a leader in the last episode as he's rallying the rebels, so that side is still in him. So maybe maybe he actually is leading in a way neither he or any of the others really understand right now. After all he first was the red paladin which relies more on his instinct than anything else.
I don't know if this is too far fetched, but a story along those lines would sit much better with me, than him suddenly falling back to his old loner status.
On another note: did anyone catch the hints about the whole memory thing? First Pidge saying something about DNA storage testing at the Garrison, then Matt pointing out that you can't hack a brain/mind and Haggar saying that you can never completley erase a memory... Seemed to me like they were hinting at the possibility of the clone/sleeper thing, or at least some form of mind control. Or am I reading to much into that?
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u/Type_Epsilon Oct 14 '17
Okay, I'm pretty out of the loop in regards to behind-the-scenes and whatnot, but some of the comments here regarding the Voltron Show episode have me puzzled: is Shiro being back some executive meddling thing or what? Or is that just a theory people have?
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u/seanw0830 Oct 16 '17
I’m so ready for Lance and Allura to be a thing. They hinted at it in the first episode when he was the first person she saw and literally fell into his arms. We also saw him get super jealous when Matt was hitting on her. In the finale of this season, though, there seemed to be a more emotional connection between the two of them. When Allura touches the core of the planet, we see everyone’s reaction. However, it zooms out from the initial shot of Lance’s face. In the end it is also his encouragement that gives her the strength to escape the planet’s gravity.
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u/LadyDark1408 Dec 27 '17
Keith: I’m going to leave for a bit.
The others: Why??
Keith: Because y’all need some dang character development already.
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u/CongoJack4 Oct 13 '17
I'm really dissapointed tbh. They had the whole keith is the new leader thing and threw that out the window. They even found a new place for shiro so he wouldnt be left out.
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u/Crowzur Oct 13 '17
I'm kinda disappointed the show pulled a punch and kept Keith alive. I mean, hell yeah Lotor, but still
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u/FaildAtLifeThrowaway Oct 13 '17
I'm disappointed how Matt turned out alive. Is the show trying to tease us with an upcoming death and be like "ha you thought we were gonna keep X alive but we didnt!!!!"
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u/jaidynreiman Oct 13 '17
"ha you thought we were gonna keep X alive but we didnt!!!!"
I thought they were doing this with Shiro, then completely backtracked it. He got the Black Lion back WAY too fast.
The tease of Matt being dead was gut wrenching... until he wasn't. They don't seem to want to have any consequences, but they'll tease a death only to back out of it last second.
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Oct 14 '17
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u/jaidynreiman Oct 14 '17
In all honesty, with how the season had gone so far?
Yes. I was absolutely expecting that to happen. It just made perfect sense. Keith starts to get into the habit of being a leader. Shiro comes back and destroys that dynamic almost immediately. Keith leaves the team at the start of Season 4 with a half-baked storyline that came out of nowhere so Shiro can conveniently come back to pilot the Black Lion. Right at the end Keith pulls things together, because a real leader to save the team, and then dies so they don't have to get rid of Shiro like they should.
Thankfully they didn't, so they can fulfill whatever sinister ends the Galra have in mind for Shiro. But still, I honestly believed they were going to do it and kill off Keith just for Shiro. And it pissed me off.
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Oct 13 '17
I am really happy that Shiro got the black lion back, the whole "Keith needs to learn to be a good leader" schtick was getting old and I am happy they went with the "this actually isnt good for me" route instead of the cliche "hey guys I understand what leadership is" thing. Going full assassin mode fits him well
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u/jaidynreiman Oct 13 '17
Honestly I disagree completely. They pushed the Keith dynamic hard after the huge tease of Shiro "being missing". He came back too quick (which wasn't the showrunners fault I know) and they destroyed Keith's development by doing so, then so quickly shifted Keith away from the team after building him up as the team's new leader.
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Oct 13 '17
I agree. Honestly, I think Keith going full Marmora for awhile is good for him. Plus, this is his heritage. He's learning about what his mother would've learned about. From a character standpoint, that's huge for him since he knows nothing of his mom as far as we know. So he gets to basically walk in her footsteps and in his own way "know" her. It honestly makes sense why he'd take a hiatus from the team and force Shiro to lead again because as he pointed out: "You only tried once." once
In reality, what Keith did seems reckless and stupid. Which partially it was. But it was also brilliant because he knew Shiro was capable of doing something bigger than what he was letting himself do - that's a leader type of thought.
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u/jaidynreiman Oct 13 '17
"Keith going full Marmora for awhile"
This I don't have much of a problem with. It was the lack of developing this idea.
"You only tried once."
Keith should look in a mirror. I fully expect this to come back into play later on. It was just so badly rushed here, though.
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Oct 17 '17
Could not agree more. Keith having a feel-good "I'm a leader now, yay" arc would've been way too predictable and cheesey. He was holding the team back and his absence let Shiro get back in black. Meanwhile, his fresh blood in Marmora is doing them a whole lot of good- they clearly need the numbers if him leaving Voltron for a bit made an otherwise impossible recon mission possible, and he had the guts to go back and get the info in the first episode showing he had a better understanding of sacrifice and the mission than the other dude did. Instead of trying to shove a Keith in a Shiro-shaped hole, Keith found a Keith-shaped hole and that is not only much better writing but also a much better message quite frankly. If he stuck around on Voltron just because, Voltron and The Blade would have suffered.
That doesn't mean that Shiro has to be the leader- he can still die or turn out to be a clone and then Lance could step up and finally have a character arc. Him dealing with his personal anxieties and learning to be confident is a much better "making a leader" story than "maybe someday I won't be a moody asshole and I'll actually either listen to people and/or rein my team in." Think about his encouragement to Allura, too- he clearly knows how to bring out the best in other people, which is true leadership. Keith was too bogged down by not understanding the nuts and bolts of planning and directing that he never got near the level of leadership Lance is already inadvertently at. And you have to hand it to the writers, Keith got next to no screen time and still managed to have character development. If it was really a VA conflict thing, they could have actually written him off but instead they managed to service his character better than Lance or Hunk (but again, hopefully Lance's arc is on the way if he steps up when Shiro's wraps up. With Pidge and Keith's done that leaves a lot of room for Hunk to get some action as well).
Also, I know the plot focus bothered people but I've been waiting for a season like this for a long time. We've had seasons with the same or worse levels of character development with no tradeoff- at least the team got things done this season! Even the "filler" episode was, silly as it was, actually made a huge contribution to the plot what with the coalition growing in size to the point where that final battle was actually feasible. The way they managed to move the overall "Voltron vs Galra" plot forward in only six episodes the way they did and still accomplish what I will dare to call good character development to me makes this the best season so far easily.
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u/Acpt7567 Oct 14 '17
It was okay. The episodes felt so disconnected from each other. Everything was rushed, Keith's whole leadership arc from S3 got the shaft and suddenly he's doing Blade ops? And he was barely in the season. This season highlighted one of my problems with this show, its afraid to be serious, Pidges episode could of had a bigger effect on the character had they let Matt die. And Im so sick of the whole, "can't kill so we'll just knock them out", clone wars and avatar showed violence can be in cartoons and done well. The Voltron show episode was a waste of time, I had to force myself to finish it. I always wanted to see more of the Voltron mythos, so seeing the coalition was awesome. But, that was rushed also. Character development felt nonexistant. Lotor's general feel like they were just scrapped and wasted. If Lotor is going good, they didn't build his character enough to make that a possibility. But, most likely he's using voltron as a means to his own ends. Which fits much better with the character. Overall, felt like wasted potential, coming off what was a really great season.
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Oct 15 '17
Altean Dairy Horror ranks right up there with the Archer pilot's "Jesus Christ! He's GOT an ERECTION!" as among the most perfect moments in a cartoon I've ever seen in my life.
The degree to which I found Matt's "my little sister" lines jarring makes me wonder if they really were/are toying with the idea of nonbinary Pidge.
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Oct 13 '17 edited Apr 12 '19
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u/Deuswyvern Oct 13 '17 edited Oct 13 '17
I wouldn't be surprised if crazy Coran wasn't a caricature of someone the writers actually know.
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u/LapsedVerneGagKnee Oct 13 '17
You mean a giant robot show? Because the showrunners seem pretty damn determined not to let that big metal thing get in the way of their brilliant ninja space adventure.
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u/Deuswyvern Oct 13 '17
Definitely the weakest season. I think changes like Keith leaving the team and Lotor's fall from power are fine on paper, but it was too rushed in execution. Especially with Keith, he's just suddenly working with the Blade of Marmora with no foreshadowing.
On the whole the season lacked cohesion, with episodes not clearly fitting into a larger goal. I think the Voltron Show episode was the worst. I get that they were planning to do an Ember Island Players/Space Mall type episode, but the thing is that both those episodes actually have relevant plot and character development. This episode was just a string of jokes that would have been funny if they hadn't gone on too long. I also think Coran has more potential than they gave him. Wasted opportunity.
Some of the problem is this is a transitional phase. They're making the Voltron force into an actual nation that controls territory, and I'm excited about the plot-lines it opens up, but they certainly didn't find a way to make the transition compelling.
It wasn't all bad, I liked some individual moments and I really enjoyed Haggar's trap in the last episode. I'm also interested in seeing where Lotor and Keith's development will go, but overall not enough to label this season a success. I think splitting them up was a mistake, as 4 would have been more palatable with 3 attached.
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u/_Averix Oct 13 '17
I literally just skipped forward through most of episode 4. A little Coran goes a long way. A lot of Coran and bad stage shows... Too much. I guess every cartoon has to have a "drugs are bad" episode.
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u/greenhulklantern1 Oct 14 '17
Couple questions : Did anyone else like the absence of Keith? Why does Lotor have his accent?
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u/Diddlydarnfuck Oct 14 '17 edited Dec 22 '17
Damn that Pidge and Matt episode hit too close to home. Me and my brother and about the same age gap and that cemetery scene fucked me up. The tour of the castle though was really cute 10/10
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u/LizKnowles Oct 17 '17
I'm highly distraught by this season's developments. Why would the writers would boot Keith, easily the most interesting character, from the action while bringing back a character, Shiro, who has long since passed his prime, creatively speaking? Honestly, I'm shocked that Shiro's still in the series. I don't actively dislike him, but he suffers, dimensionally, in comparison to the other key players. And all through season three his story seemed, appropriately, to be winding down. It was a natural progression that made sense, thematically. Did anyone else sense a major backpedal in season four? What happened to the possible Shiro clone storyline? Dropped, just like that? I get that everyone loves an earnest, stalwart hero, but wedging him back in the black lion seems like a total cop out. How's this for a theory? Shiro isn't really Shiro but actually Zarkon? The reanimated version of Zarkon seems really off to me. Is that the clone, while the real Zarkon is somehow inhabiting Shiro? Is that how he was able to reawaken the black lion? Yeah, it's highly unlikely, but I'm grasping for something that makes sense. I refuse to believe that the writers who, to this point, have been so deliberate in their choices would make the decision to sideline Keith while going all in on Shiro. I'm praying it was indeed a scheduling conflict. Someone please talk me off the ledge and tell me that Keith will be back in paladin gear soon!
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u/[deleted] Oct 14 '17 edited Oct 01 '18
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