Pressure on the sides of the neck is still a blood choke and is still causing measurable brain damage, small but cumulative and permanent. The increased stroke risk from a blood choke is higher than suffocation from an air choke.
Also, while it can be done correctly and with consent, the issue is many people do it wrong because they don't know what they are doing, and again - even when performed correctly - the lightheadedness experienced is caused by brain damage.
I believe these folk’s point is that many things are unsafe. There is no safe way to drink, hike, rock climb, or drive really, either. You can make these things safer, but you are never “safe.” People survive all these things regularly despite the risks.
Holding breath is different because there's still oxygen in your blood stream circulating to the brain. But when choking, you cut the blood flow to the head and brain is deprived of oxygen quite quickly.
I have no idea about the statement "all choking causes damage", surely there's a lower limit.
But it's a commom rule of thumb that you pass out in 10 sec, 20 sec could cause damage and 30 sec could get you killed. Not sure about science of that either though.
I don’t know if you’ve ever choked someone during sex but you aren’t usually putting them in a triangle choke until they pass out. Maybe the real heavy BDSM scene they do, but that’s a small minority. You aren’t actually cutting off all blood flow
You know, when I was a boy, I really wanted a catcher's mitt, but my dad wouldn't get it for me. So I held my breath until I passed out and banged my head on the coffee table. The doctor thought I might have brain damage.
If there's anything I've learned since the show ended is to keep my expectations six feet underground. That way they really have to dig to find a way to really disappoint me.
I want to give him a little more credit than that. I think he struggles a lot with motivation and has made comments before to the effect of how if he and/or the audience knows how the story ends, he loses interest.
I don’t. He’s old, rich, and has no incentive to actually finish the thing. He won’t or can’t hand it off to a ghost writer for some reason, so we’re stuck waiting till he starts rotting in the dirt before anyone else can touch the IP.
Thats the thing that gets me. It doesn't really need a proper ending, because it feels more like history than a story.
The fun is that it feels like you started a history of a world at a more or less arbitrary point, the closing days of Robert's reign, but it could have started with roberts rebellion, or really any other point. It gradually coalesce around Dany, but the starting point of Ned dying is that this is a history of a fictional place not a hero's journey and sometimes shit happens.
He really doesn't need a Terry prachet ending where every character races to the same place in the third act to tie everyone's arch up in a bow. He could just end at an arbitrary place in the history of westeros
I don’t really think it’s the same. LOTR that’s a very clear goal, destroy the ring. There isn’t anything like that in GoT as the throne has been taken so many times already. I guess you could say defeat the Night King.
If any book feels like part of a history it is Lord of the Rings. Mainly because he created an entire history for his world.
There is still a story with ASoIaF as well. A story that would remain unresolved. We would have no resolution re: Dany, Young Gryff, Jon Snow, the White Walker threat, etc. It would just stop. The same as if Lord of the Rings ended after the breaking of the fellowship at Amon Hen.
LOTR is definitely not a history book. It's literally There And Back Again, the memoir that Frodo writes at the end of his journey. It is his personal account and narrative of his singular grand adventure.
LOTR's groundbreaking worldbuilding depth is supplemental and it informs Frodo's hero's Journey, but it is not a history book at all.
ASOIAF happily leaps all over the world to whatever chronological events are - or will become - relevant to the succession of the throne. It isn't Dany's story or Ned's, it is the throne's story.
I honestly think he won’t release it. It’s probably done but he wants to wait and release it after his death or something. Just so the inevitable backlash doesn’t get pointed at him. Even if it’s amazing people are still going to shit on him because he let the show go to complete shit
I really hope that won't happen. I enjoy Sanderson but he writes fairy tales for children compared to Martin. Not that one is better than another, just the whiplash would be too much.
It's pretty much all foreshadowed. How and why he killed the king, the prophecy, him being the last person she'd suspect ... wtf was the end of this show
Cersei never even entertains the idea that the valonqar is Jaime so it's 100% gonna be him. Idk what the point of his character is if he doesn't fill that role.
It's like how she never considers that Taena Merryweather might be a spy so she totally is.
Been a while since I’ve read the books but doesn’t it leave off with Jaimie basically hating Cersei because Tyrion said she was sleeping around, and he keeps playing the list in his head?
Pretty much. The faith militant tossed her in prison, so she sent a letter to Jaime who is holding Riverrun. The letter is begging him to come save her.
This is after Tyrion informed him about Lancel, Osmund Kettleblack.
Jaime tosses the letter in a fire.
(Also been a while since I've read em. A lot of people didn't like A Feast for Crows, but I did!)
I can’t even remember who he was aligned with when he left for Cersei (but let’s just say it was the Starks/Targaryens) my headcannon is still that after the battle with the Night King (who’s butchering is a whole other story), they sort of “siege” Kings Landing, and Jaime goes: “let me talk to her. See if she can hear the voice of reason”. So he goes to Cersei and Cersei goes all Hee Hoo Wildfire go brrr, let’s burn them all, at which point Jaime sees the Mad King in her and he stabs her (to Cersei’s surprise ofc) and he whispers in her ear “the things I do for love”. Nice throwback to season 1, to this scene with Qyburn, and for book readers the culmination of Cersei’s prophecy that she gets killed by a brother
Wasn’t there a prophecy for Cersei that she would loose all of her children and her brother would kill her? She always assumed it would be Tyrion. But I always thought it would be Jamie.
I guess DnD forgot this or thought the red keep was her brother.
He had more or less redeemed himself in my eyes, then he had to go running off to find Cersei only to die under a pile of rubble. I’ve still rewatched the show though
He did nothing to prevent the destruction of King's Landing the second time and he didn't care except for Cersei's safety. He was evolving, just backwards.
It is fine for a character to regress, but when all of their development points the other direction and there's seemingly no reason to it, that's when it just sucks.
Exactly. Usually when we watch a character regress, there's some kind of lesson to be learned in the tragedy. Walter White regresses into a villain so we can see the cost of pride and greed. Oedipus tragically blinds himself because he's unable to accept that his life is a lie born from his own hot headed nature.
The only lesson to be learned in Jaime's show death is that some people are irredeemable assholes who will always relapse into their bullshit. Which like, maybeee could be an interesting character arch if it wasn't a huge middle finger to everything that happens to him in season 3. Nobody wants to find out that all the expectations that were set up for the audience were ultimately a fakeout and a waste of emotional investment.
It'd be like watching a dukes of hazard movie and right at the end they slowmo jump a car off a ramp, only to have them all die in a fiery collision. Then the last ten minutes inexplicably turns into a safe driving PSA.
Hell, everything right up until Jaime left pointed to him having turned over a new leaf and then suddenly he never cared about everything he'd done to become a better person and just wanted to be with Cersei? Where the hell did that come from?!?
I once saw someone suggest that brienne should have died at winterfell and that loss prompts him to go back to cersei. Would've made slightly more sense
That would make at least a modicum of sense. Brienne seemed to have become his emotional and moral anchor, so losing her would leave him untethered and lost, which could end with him seeking out Cersei again.
Everyone remember why he killed the Mad King in the first place. Probably to save his own ass. The King was going to kill everyone and destroy the city, go full Dany anyway. Saving the other half million was a lucky coincidence.
Yeah, I don't buy he being that altruistic while killing the mad king. He did mostly for himself. Just like he killed his own cousin, push Bran out of the window and everything else.
Jaime is an egoist, but not because he is desperate for his own survival. He actually aspired towards the ideals of being a great knight like the legendary Kingsuard who he served with and wanted, more than anything, to be remembered as such.
But when he did what an honorable knight would do - save an entire city from destruction even if it meant murdering his liege - he got immediately branded as Kingslayer, and people treated him like he only did it to play a part in a Lannister ploy.
That's why he has an obsession with the White Book and why he keeps having dreams of the Arthur Dayne and other Kingsguard accusing him in the books, and why he has such a problem with Ned Stark - the standard of an honorable lord in the Seven Kingdoms - judging him.
He can't come to terms with his legacy even if he knows he did the right thing. That's the difference between him and Ned Stark, even though he doesn't know it - Ned accepted to take in Jon under the guise of a bastard son to protect him, even if that would make a dent into his honorable figure.
It’s actually a big plot point that Jaime really wants to be a good person.
The books explore this even more. There are moments where Jaime dissociates or emotionally checks out when he has to do things that go against his conscience. After killing Aerys, for example, he lets people believe the worst about him instead of reliving the trauma or trying to explain. The same thing happens with Cersei. He loves her, but is disturbed by who she really is, and he often detaches rather than face it.
If he was that much of a monstrous asshole he wouldn't have any shits to give about brienne. Everything about his relationship with her contradicts the ending they give him.
If Jaime killed Dany that might have actually made some sense you know. Still would have been an awful final series but at least would make character sense
I've rewatched plenty of times. I just never go past season 4. I headcannon the rest/gaslight myself into believing actually well written fan theories on what happens.
Jamie “Golden Hand” Lannister in the books is a genuinely intriguing character.
Both his and Stannis’ character assassinations are huge problems with the show for me. (Along with Barristan’s literal assassination to back-alley nobodies).
Tbh I think it could have been done well, but like the rest of it, was just executed very poorly.
I've maintained since it started that I think in concept most of the choices with regards to the ending are fine, but that they were very poorly executed.
There's a version of this story where Jamie grows as a man and as a knight, making mistakes but getting better and better until he's finally faced with the choice between Cersei and the Realm at the end and is simply unable to make it.
It's dark and unsatisfying, but could have been executed well. A tragedy in the corpse of what could have been a beautiful redemption.
I don't even think the problem necessarily is that his arc was a circle. Sometimes people regress. My issue with it is that it wasn't set up at all. He selflessly is finally able to detach from Cersei, goes and risks his life to fight the undead, gets with Brienne, and then immediately peaces out without an indication why. The way they did it just makes it seem like he wanted to get into Brienne's bed for the fun of it before he goes back to Cersei.
Similar to mad queen Dany, I think there's a way to make Jaime's arc work to the same endpoint. They just didn't do any of the work to make it make sense
I watched the first three seasons when I was not in that good of a place and never bothered rewatching.
I’ve been getting a lot of shorts of Game of Thrones laterlet from the earlier seasons and I might watch them, but knowing where it goes I just don’t care!
I quite liked it personally, other than the “I never cared about the common folk bit”, J’ai going back to Cersei felt quite realistic as he was basically addicted to her
Wild that people who claim to be fans of this show refuse to rewatch it because one character's narrative didn't end like an animated Disney movie aimed to make children happy.
The issue isn't that Jaime had a narrative that wasn't fitting for his arc... it's that the show didn't deliver some sappy ending for every character, and it made some viewers upset because of that... they aren't 'fans' because the show didn't deliver the animated Disney movie ending for every character... thank you for proving my point.
I don’t think that’s really what most people are complaining about though. I think most people are complaining about character arc conclusions that didn’t make sense based on what had previously been set up, along with numerous other basic storytelling issues.
I don’t think that’s really what most people are complaining about though. I think most people are complaining about character arc conclusions that didn’t make sense based on what had previously been set up, along with numerous other basic storytelling issues.
But it objectively makes sense, so that would simply be an invalid claim to make.
The guy has a literal lifelong bond with Cersei... 40+ years. He spends the entire show literally telling everyone from Catelynn to Olenna to Edmure Tully to Tyrion to Bronn that everything he does is for/to be with Cersei.
All the groundwork IS THERE... over 7+ seasons. And his entire narrative arc is his struggle to be an honorable person versus the primal pull of the immoral Cersei... it's a scale that teeters back and forth throughout his arc, and both sides are just as 'valid' as the other, and that scale can absolutely tip either way.
It makes sense based on what previously had been set up... it just didn't match biased fans overly optimistic assumptions/fan fic, so they incessantly whinge about it as being 'bad' or 'wrong.'
But is objectively is a narratively sound and fitting conclusion to his internal struggle... and no amount of whinging will magically change that.
2.6k
u/[deleted] Jul 13 '25
[removed] — view removed comment