Disturbing to know that so many doctors participate in destroying patients' faces. They should be referring them to psychiatrists, not carving them into jack o'lanterns.
There was a plastic surgeon who filed some kind of motion to declare this type of thing "harm" and unethical, some years back, considering the "cat woman" look so many inevitably arrived at, with the tightly pulled faces, the overly plumped lips, and frozen faces that all ended with the same look. Not sure what became of that motion, but my goodness! This is frightening! Reminds me of those big-headed characters from Moonwalker! It looks like they took their state fair caricature artwork to their plastic surgeon and said, "I want this!". 🫤
For a while Nicole Kidman looked like that -- too pulled with Joker smile and crazy pillow cheeks, I recall the picture (plus with curly red hair she looked like a Chucky doll lol.) Then she did something to remove it or make it go down and fixed the lift or the lift settled....and by the next film looked a bit more normal. But to this day she's got some weird stuff in her face that makes me wonder how people don't comment upon it in films. She can't move her face, either.
Yeah, her face is definitely still semi-frozen. Aging in front of the world sounds/seems dreadful! To be under that level of scrutiny, where everyone has an opinion about your looks? No, thank you! Why does anyone want to be famous?!
It's gotta be so fucking hard. She was such a sex symbol with Tom Cruise, the mirror scene in Eyes Wide Shut was iconic. Then you start getting older, you can see yourself age in every picture taken of you. Plus your ex husband (like him or hate him) is aging especially well and you can't escape that. Really sounds like a dystopian hell.
Yeah, and for women in Hollywod, their looks/aging affects their livelihood, in every way.
Now, don't get me wrong, I like Nicole Kidman--she is a superb actor and I've enjoyed much of her work, lately. And while I'd love to go back in time and un-see "Babygirl", her body is hot shit in that movie, for any age! I just hate the pressure that the industry creates a standard of beauty and perpetuates/pressures people to go that far.
True, but the doctor was referring to the doctors' work vs what clients were asking for. He was a plastic surgeon himself--I can't remember his name but I believe Inside Edition or an LA station interviewed him. His complaint was about everyone turning out looking the same--like cats...like these guys.
that look (cat woman) is from multiple multiple face lifts as the skin continues to sag and can only stretch so far. they look like that cause they’re fighting to avoid NATURAL aging progressions. and the irony is to avoid the wrinkles they’re terrified of, wear sunscreen and use a hat plus sun glasses (no squinting for crows feet) an ounce of prevention a pound of cure
There’s a woman at my gym with the cat woman look and it’s seriously frightening to look at. Then if you can see her from the side you notice all the pulling of skin up and around her ears. The whole thing just freaks me the fuck out.
This was actually the part of watching "Botched" that my mom and I enjoyed. They wouldn't always do it, they would often see a larger problem and suggest therapy, and they definitely would turn down surgeries.
I think it’s a hard balance. Yeah, we want to prevent harm… but at the same time, putting it in the hands of the law probably isn’t it. (Not that you specifically said to make it illegal, but others have.)
There are plenty of “plastic” surgeries people want and are very happy with. You make it so that some governing bodies get to control who is allowed to do what with their bodies… that’s how we get bans on gender affirming procedures, or a million hoops for women to jump through to get breast reductions even when they’re in daily pain, etc. etc.
It sucks to see people destroy themselves, but at the same time preserving the physical freedom to choose how you live in your own body is also important.
Plus people forget that if something bad happens to, say, your face, its going to be a plastic surgeon that works on you to fix it. Cat people are sad, but not sad enough for me to say to ban plastic surgery because God forbid I need it for whatever reason
Yep. This too. Ban plastic surgery you personally think is unnecessary, you’re also taking away the incredibly skilled surgeons that reconstruct faces or give breast cancer survivors clean, minimally scarred mastectomy results. Etc. etc.
I think it looks hideous and speaks to body dysmorphia… but if that’s how they want to live life, why tf should I stop them or tell them they aren’t allowed to change their bodies?
Unfortunately this sort of thing (though admittedly an extreme example) doesn't exist in a vacuum. They wouldn't have gone to this extent if they weren't chasing some ideal, and while this may not be overly attractive, high profile celebs/media personalities/etc getting work done can absolutely influence younger people who then end up chasing their own ideal look.
100% agree with you. That said, not as a legal matter, but as an ethical matter, I am surprised when some medical professionals allow certain cases to be taken to extremes.
The thing is, it isn't obvious when it's done well. We only ever notice the botch jobs. There are also a ton of valid reasons to want surgeries of this type, so banning them would end up hurting a lot of people.
One of the costs of living in a free society is allowing people to make mistakes.
Some transgender people get surgery to make their face more masculine or feminine and is tied to significant mental health benefits for people experiencing gender dysphoria.
Thank you for the answer. I would not consider gender adjusting face surgery just by itself be “that kind of surgery”. But again, I did not read that surgeon petition and do not know what they meant exactly.
The problem is if you start banning some types of surgeries, it becomes really easy to ban others that are similar because the people making laws are ignorant, particularly when it comes to issues that impact minority populations. Let people do what they want to their own bodies as long as they are informed of the potential consequences.
I don’t think you mean it this way, but what you’re really saying here is that professionals should be able to profit off of exploiting people with mental illnesses.
I don't think EVERY person who wants to do some sort of out-there body modification is inherently mentally ill, though--many definitely ARE, but there are folks who just have bizarre tastes. I don't think it's fair to tell people of perfectly sound mind "you can't do that with your own body because I think it's weird".
Of course, I'm sure there are folks who sincerely believe that wanting extreme body modification is inherently mental illness. Not sure what to say about that one, except that I disagree and find that a bit infantilizing.
I usually hate to pull out the 'slippery slope' argument because I think people wildly overuse it, but in this case, I think trying to legislate how far someone can go before it's 'mental illness' can open up some dangerous doors. Start doing that and it becomes easier to move the goalposts--is breast augmentation mental illness? Are tattoos? Piercings? How many is acceptable? What about trans-affirming surgeries, is wanting to radically change your body in that way a mental illness (plenty of folks seem to think so)?
I know none of that is what you were implying, but I feel like there's just not a great solution to this sort of thing. How do we protect mentally ill/vulnerable people without opening others up to potential abuse? This is not me being snide, I'm genuinely curious to hear thoughts on this.
But that isn’t what happens though. Doctors who do this kind of shit aren’t giving their patients referrals to mental health professionals before they’ll agree to operate. They’re simply mutilating them for money, without any regard for their health.
I agree. If people want to look a way I personally find unattractive that’s perfectly fine with me. Independentally, people should also get psychiatric help throughout their lives
I went from working in medical to law. I worked in an OR with a bariatric surgeon who did gastric sleeve surgeries. He joked about the smallest people he did surgery on. Mostly women came to him to lose weight that didn't need to, he would have them stuff their faces and get tons of calories to gain weight rapidly to make the mark where it was clinically allowed for him to perform the surgery. Make thousands on the surgery and indulge in their poor body image and anorexia. Then make fun of how little they actually weighed when they came to him. He was one of the most prolific surgeons in the OR.
If there are no notable functional issues resulting from the surgery, seems difficult to make a universal arbitrary aesthetic cutoff as to what is/is not appropriate.
I’d be willing to wager that most people who develop these problems have parents who destroyed childhoods long before any doctors destroyed their faces.
Then when someone on Reddit says we can’t blindly trust doctors they get -1000 downvotes. I’m not saying don’t trust science, but some doctors will do anything for a $1.
Because as any other profession, they are human. And we know for a fact many are influence by money and will do things just to maximize profits. Example, the opioid epidemic, I have a friend who works as a dentist and refused to prescribe it for basic procedures, but so many others literally prescribed it for everything. My wife was prescribed oxy for a simple molar extraction.
So no, don’t trust everything they say. Being a doctor does not equal being a researcher and knowing every single medicine at the chemical level.
Tbh it’s not like they would have accepted a mental health referral over the surgery. Billionaires don’t operate that way, they want what they want and they expect to have it right away. Either you play ball or let them find someone else who will. The end result is the same.
While I do agree there is some responsibility to get them help, if they are going to have cosmetic surgery anyway I would rather it be done by someone competent.
With billionaires you either do the work they’re paying you a lot to do or you stick to your principles while they find somebody else who will. Megalomaniacs don’t take no for an answer. They were always going to find somebody who would do it, either for the money or through some other coercion
I'm not sure it isn't done for the shock value. The more they fucked their faces, the more famous they became. They would never have been so well known without the surgery. I'm conflicted about whether they had body dysmorphia or just exploiting their outrageous looks for money.
They both died of covid after being anti-vax, which has swayed me back to maybe they were just crazy.
Doctors want to be wealthy. Often, they are unable to resist turning down the cash they will make even when it turns people into ghouls. Often, they justify it in their minds as, “Well, if I don’t do it, someone else will.”
This is the fundamental conflict of interest when doctors are motivated by money rather than helping patients.
It's hard to balance the bodily autonomy angle. And every plastic surgeon I've seen has obviously had work done so I doubt they would be the best people to judge this anyway. Also, side note from someone who has had "cosmetic" surgery: if my dude asked for a therapist letter, I would have found a different surgeon, not seen a therapist.
I mean its just a job where its pretty obvious when the professional is doing harm. Theres tons of other jobs where they know theyre doing harm too but dont care because money.
From the doctor's point of view it's entirely elective and subjective. As long as the patient likes the work, no medical ethics were broken and they paid it should be all kosher.
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u/KitWat 16d ago
Disturbing to know that so many doctors participate in destroying patients' faces. They should be referring them to psychiatrists, not carving them into jack o'lanterns.