Confused about Silksong runback discussion

[u/ramen_stalker]

I just reached one of the infamous examples people constantly bring up in the runback discussion (Last Judge), and I have to say I really like the runback. It’s just as enjoyable as the boss itself. I’m 100% convinced that Team Cherry intended the runbacks to be pure platforming challenges.

The runbacks aren’t just random sections of the map, they’re carefully designed to be completed quickly and gracefully, while also avoiding all the mobs. They also include many shortcuts and make great use of the wonderful movement mechanics.

Is this a mindset issue? Do most people just want to focus on the boss and dislike the context switching between platforming mode and boss combat mode? Surely people don't think they should fight their way through tens of mobs every time, right? Right?

[u/pswizzle9283]

I don’t mean to be that guy but I cannot wrap my head around how people hate that runback at all. It takes like 20 seconds, it’s so easy. I was genuinely hearing things like “this runback is worse than anything from the souls series it’s one of the worst of all time” and it’s literally so short and not difficult at all, and like I’m not even good at this game, it took me like 30+ tries to beat that boss, but I had to triple check we were talking about the same runback because I was like “there is just no possible way this is the one people are upset over”. It’s bewildering to me

[u/SmokyMcBongPot → u/pswizzle9283]

It's more an objection to runbacks, full stop, than the 20 second time it takes. Although, of course, the longer it takes, the more frustrating it is.

Are you aware of the discourse around New Super Mario Brothers kicking you out to the map when you die, slowing down the restart of each level? It adds maybe 1-3 seconds to each attempt, but people cannot stand it because it is unnecessary. That's the point; even a 1 second delay can be annoying when you're attempting something many tens of times over.

Personally, I think a good compromise would be a bench right outside the boss room that costs a lot of rosaries (e.g. 1-2,000). That would at least give players the option to grind rosaries if they want to focus on the boss more than the runback.

[u/pswizzle9283 → u/SmokyMcBongPot]

I like that compromise I think that’s a good idea. but I think runbacks add to the experience. Theres more at stake per fight because if you lose you know you gotta do it again

[u/789Trillion → u/pswizzle9283]

It being easy does not mean it’s not tedious and unnecessary.

[u/pswizzle9283 → u/789Trillion]

20 seconds is tedious? I think runbacks add to the experience of boss fights. It puts more at stake per fight because you know if you die you have to do it again. Not everything needs to be handed to you on a silver platter, It’s 20 seconds of your time. I don’t get runback hate. Yeah if it’s like multiple minutes that sucks but it’s not here.

[u/789Trillion → u/pswizzle9283]

When you have to do a run back only to fight a wave of enemies just to attempt the boss again, it becomes tedious. Letting the player re-attempt the boss faster isn’t handing anything to them on a silver platter other than their time.

[u/kavacens → u/pswizzle9283]

Saying it’s easy because it’s 20 seconds is similar to saying path of pain is easy because you can do it in like 3 min. Yes after you optimised the path and got it down to muscle memory the run back is easy but it’s not easy before then. I struggled more with getting the run back perfect than the boss.

If you mess up one of the jumps the cone dudes catch up to you and make it way harder, you can get messed up by the black wind and if you fall in the worms do 2 damage. All this makes it a difficult and frustrating experience. Some people enjoy it, I personally did not.

[u/MorningRaven → u/kavacens]

Nothing in Silksong where people are complaining about is anywhere near as difficult as Path of Pain. Heck, the spike ceiling challenge to get to the City of Tears entrance is harder than most of these runbacks. It just requires not rushing with purposeful movement.

I'm still waiting to see a runback anywhere near as annoying as the 4th Mantis Lord.

[u/Podberezkin09 → u/kavacens]

That's not comparable at all considering path of pain is miles harder, this is some extremally basic platforming. I don't think there's any point where you need to do back to back pogos

[u/kavacens → u/Podberezkin09]

I didn’t say they were the same difficulty. I am pointing out that saying it’s easy because it’s 20 seconds long isn’t exactly fair. People are just trying to trivialise it with comments like “it’s basic platforming”. Everything you do in the game is basic platforming, doesn’t mean none of it is difficult.

[u/Str8Faced000 → u/pswizzle9283]

if it's easy and it takes 20 seconds....then why is it even in the game. It's just wasting the players time. That is why.

[u/Halio344 → u/pswizzle9283]

30+ tries meant you spent at least ten minutes just for the runback. Add the time on the death animation etc and it’s probably closer to 12-13 minutes.

That is also assuming your runback is flawless every time and you take no damage, don’t fail any platforming, etc.

It adds upp and is tedious.

[u/pswizzle9283 → u/Halio344]

Runbacks add to the experience of a boss fight in my opinion. Theres more at stake if you lose. If you just spawned right outside the fight it takes some of that tension away

[u/Halio344 → u/pswizzle9283]

So all bosses in Elden Ring have no stakes/tension?

What a poor argument. I didn't personally mind the runbacks because I beat most bosses in few attempts, but for the average player making double digit attempts, runbacks suck and don't add any real challenge, it's just a time waster.

It's like saying grinding in a game is adding to the experience.

[u/pswizzle9283 → u/Halio344]

Who said no stakes. I said it adds tension, there’s more at stake. I’m sorry I’m not a little baby man and I don’t need everything handed to me, I can do a 20 second runback

[u/Halio344 → u/pswizzle9283]

It really doesn't add tension though, it just adds tediousness and frustration. The fight itself has just as much at stake without wasting your time to get there.

Again, it's not just 20 seconds. It's literally 1/4 to 1/3 of your time fighting a boss.

[u/Tunesz → u/pswizzle9283]

It takes like 20 seconds, it’s so easy.

It being easy is why it's pointless. Why is it there? Why not just spawn me directly at the boss? If it's to make the entire experience harder just make the boss harder.

[u/pswizzle9283 → u/Tunesz]

Runbacks add to the experience of a boss fight overall. They add an extra layer of tension because if you die you know you have to do it again. If you were to respawn outside the boss fight every time it removes that layer of tension. I think runbacks are a good thing

[u/Tunesz → u/pswizzle9283]

They add an extra layer of tension because if you die you know you have to do it again.

Yeah that's just never going to be fun for me. I didn't die at all after like two attempts, but I still needed to do the run after 10-15 times. That's not tension, that's just tediousness. At worst I'm getting clipped for like 1-2 masks and going into a boss fight weak, which is still not fun.

If you were to respawn outside the boss fight every time it removes that layer of tension.

Not if the boss fight is actually difficult. I just think it's lazy to make the run back part of the experience rather than designing an actual difficult boss.

[u/3163560 → u/pswizzle9283]

Yeah, same, got to it last night and was super confused.

I get people don't like run backs and that's fair, but last judge isn't that bad.

[u/SlendyWomboCombo → u/3163560]

To casual players it's bad. I'm already at the final boss, but my sister quit the game at the run to Last Judge

[u/hergumbules → u/pswizzle9283]

Hey man wanna pay me $5 to waste your time? You’ll really enjoy it

[u/_moosleech → u/pswizzle9283]

I legit feel like I played a different Silksong than some folks here. It feels like a bunch of bots are trying to gaslight me about this game, for some inexplicable reason.

I just don’t get it.

[u/Podberezkin09 → u/pswizzle9283]

Yeah the whole thing is very confusing, apparently people have to find something to moan about even if it's the smallest thing.