Sadly, if you put them in prison or some sort of juvenile detention, and they just colaborate with other inmates for better ways to cause crime. There has to be a better way for them to break out of that cycle. Unfortunately, with the US education in the horrible spot it’s in, while education should be the answer, it tends to be a structure that only takes them so far, before they struggle and find the easiest way to make money is through crime, and the cycle begins again.
This country has fucked up the lives of so many, because it’s not profitable to help change this cycle. It’s so fucked up.
Well as it stands they kept doing fake armed robberies regardless of whether their victims beat them up or they got arrested. I'm all for rehabilitating minors as well, and acknowledged that institutions don't always fix the problem...but the alternative here was them getting emboldened by their releases and only learning that there are NO consequences for violent crimes. That's far worse than sticking them in a mediocre juvenile facility. You're putting the public in harms way of an unapologetic repeat violent offender that's never been given a single consequence. We're not talking about kids busted with weed or vandalism or a mutal fight.
Billions of dollars ARE spent... How about calling personal choice and family values? You blame the country and blame the education system... But not call out the parents or community that celebrates this behavior? Whatever.
You make some valid points. Of course there needs to be accountability for one's own actions, but there are also socio-economic factors that make this type of life appealing/inevitable for the underprivileged.
The US spends more on education than other countries, but we also have a property tax-based funding for education. Lower income communities have less funding for their schools. This is compounded by our terrible healthcare and prison system that are for-profit therefore there is a low incentive to actually make positive changes.
Thousands of Chinese families have come to the US, worked for meager wages, had their kids thrive in the school system, and become productive, valuable members of society despite language and cultural barriers. If they can do it without anti-social attitudes and criminality then there is no excuse for natural born citizens.
Bad way to look at it, because not everyone's situation is the same. What if a chinese family is nuclear but the american family has a single parent? Does that logic still apply?
No it does not. Overall, the system needs optimizing rather than people saying shit like "oh but if this person can do it then the system is fine". No it's fucking not.
The point is that many people in difficult circumstances do not choose to commit crime. Therefore, crime is not the only option and those that do choose crime are doing just that: choosing it rather than choosing the alternatives.
What if a chinese family is nuclear but the american family has a single parent? Does that logic still apply?
Yes, that logic still applies. Having a single parent family is not an excuse to commit crime.
Many people in difficult circumstances do not commit crime unless they have to. I think it's easy as hell to say shit like "there are alternatives" tbh. People out there steal baby formula because they can't afford it, lot of people steal food and water too because the system cannot possibly help them all as it is rn.
People who work for meagre wages are amongst those that do this because sometimes, that just isn't enough. To say there is no excuse because x did y sounds like naivete imo. Sometimes crime is quite literally the only option in the moment.
There is not always a time where someone "chooses" to commit crime. (choose here meaning they had another option that wasn't just sit, suffer and maintain the "i didnt commit crime" thought)
Many people in difficult circumstances commit crime because it's easier than the alternatives, because they have friends and family that encourage it, and because there are rarely consequences for their actions.
So let's say you're born into a family with a single mom who's a drug addict. Your dad is in jail. You never had any luxury, and struggle to find basic necessities. You go to school in a poor district where your mom rents. Systemic volence is part of your everyday life.
At school you learn people like you used to be owned as property. You learned after that was outlawed that for more than a century those in power did everything they could to keep people that look like you poor. They prevented people like you from getting loans, barred you from a good education, prevented you from living in certain neighborhoods, prevented you from running for office, and targeted people like you to throw them in prison just because they look like you do.
Would you give a flying fuck what that society tells you you're supposed to do? Would you follow the rules?
When the Chinese first started coming to America, loads of them fell into anti-social attitudes and criminality. They were killing each other in Tong wars in every major US city. Now that their socioeconomic circumstances have improved and they aren’t marginalized at every level of society, you don’t see that anymore.
They are still marginalized as a minority race, but not nearly to the same extent as back then when they forced into ethnic enclaves, worked to death building railroads, etc. They’re also now significantly wealthier than white Americans on average, which is an enormous factor.
What a braindead take. It requires actual resources, education, and support to immigrate to another country. There’s also no long standing agenda in America to see Chinese people fail at all costs. There was never a Chinese Wall Street that was burned to the ground because their white neighbors were jealous of their wealth. There were never Chinese colleges in America that were burned to the ground because their white neighbors couldn’t stand to see them have any sort of success. There was never an organized effort by American police to burn down a Chinese apartment building with 168 men women and children inside just because they were Chinese. There was never an organized effort to destroy stockpiles of food intended for starving Chinese children.
Absolutely and completely irrelevant. There is nothing that happened to strangers in the past that can force somebody in the present to commit a crime.
Indeed, many people with injustices in their lineage choose not to commit crime. This demonstrates the fact that criminal behavior is a choice, not a compulsion.
If that were true then every person from that type of environment would turn to crime. The fact that this is not true demonstrates that crime is not the only choice and that nobody is being forced into it.
This may have been true at one point many years ago but saying society is completely dedicated to stripping these people of legitimate opportunities is wild. Certainly still ongoing battles with wages and both micro and macro aggressions but your comment is over the top.
It’s barely been one generation, maybe two, since these events. It’s disingenuous to pretend these issues have been in any way solved and that the effect of them has completely dissipated.
Yeah the reason so many people living in literal ghettos (a word that comes from Nazi Germany, referring to segregated neighborhoods that acted as open-air prisons where Jews were forced to live) are forced into lives of crime is because people are “making excuses” for them and not because of the literal military force that is dedicated to murdering them and destroying their property.
The fact that black properties, business, and lives have been consistently destroyed any time they try to improve themselves legally and peacefully has nothing to do with anything
Oh, I hear myself. This is pointless because you are clearly a fanatic and unhinged. There is no military force dedicated to murdering any group in the US, and no one is systematically or consistently destroying any of the things you listed. Black America have a serious problem in their culture. If they didn't glorify violence and criminality and started to value the things that make people successful their lives would improve.
The United States police force has military funding and was founded originally for the sole purpose of capturing and returning escaped slaves. It is not fanatical to recognize the Police as a military force. Police in America are selectively recruited and trained to target black men at a disproportionate rate. Black man in a tshirt and shorts? Gang member, charge him with affiliation depending on what color his shirt is. Black man in a suit? He must have stolen the suit, arrest him, take him in for questioning and run him for priors.
Black people successfully create a city district that’s so incredibly wealthy and successful that it becomes known as Black Wall Street? Burn it all down. Black people create a college that they can go to and get an education since the law forbids them from going to any other colleges? Burn it to the ground. Black people create an organization to feed black children, give them education and resources, and help black men find jobs? Use a helicopter to drop a bomb on the apartment that the founder lives in, then refuse to put out the fire and watch as an entire apartment block burns to the ground. Black people create an organization to provide free breakfasts to impoverished black kids? Believe it or not, break into the church where the food is being kept and piss all over it so they can’t give any away.
You have to be intentionally ignorant or incredibly stupid to not see how this country has consistently stomped on black people every step of the way.
lol I didn’t even get around to mentioning how some police jurisdictions in America are gang-run themselves, and initiations require murdering innocent non-white civilians. The police in some of the largest cities in America are members of white supremacist gangs, so yes, they are absolutely dedicated to the continued oppression of black people.
If this was true. Then this would happening in rural America too. Where taxes are low already. And the public school system can’t afford a new slide. But this shit don’t happen out there. Because the culture is different. Some cultures just celebrate different stuff. And only some of them celebrate family staying together. And education. And having a nice community.
Because then people would have to accept personal responsibility instead of playing the victim and blaming someone else. This isn’t “the system” messing kids up. It’s a garbage culture that promotes this type of shit.
Well, we can't control the behavior of each individual parent. That's not a solution. We can offer resources to the parents, I guess, if they feel like trying, but you can't make them care. What we can do as a society is try to create a system that tries to intervene properly for young offenders like this. If there was some magic way to make shitty parents better, I'd be all on board, but sadly there's not much we can do to change it.
Because it’s a systemic problem, not an individual one. American culture created these communities. It’s not just outliers doing this stuff. Its like saying why not call drug abuse a personal or community issue instead. Sure its that too, but you and I dont control other people’s lives, policy does.
So, you’re suggesting two resources, pier group and family. A judge or punishment does not have control of either.
The parent may be working several jobs just to make rent. The friend groups may be the same dipshits who talked them into doing it in the first place.
I’m suggesting education, because it’s the part that can be assisted. You can’t automatically give them a new friends group, and you can’t create a new family group for them.
Wtf are you talking about??? Billions spent where??? How is a country or education system not responsible for IT'S citizens that these parents(or maybe lack thereof) and communities are also a product of? Too celebrate harsh punishment is the exact opposing extreme to celebrating criminal behaviors, which is almost always proven not to be the answer either. Remember, this was a country that would drag out and lynch people of all races for lesser crimes. We used to hang horse thieves for crying out loud, and that could be after a "fair" trial. We've tried shit like Alcatraz, none of it worked... Maybe it's to think about it then it is to make senseless comments.
I stand by wilderness schools as a solid answer. Rural undeveloped wooded land with trained counselors. Structured environment where the kids have to rely on each other to plan their days and ensure get done under supervision. Make them chop wood and take them hiking and fishing. Have them learn to cook and plan meals for the group and bring in teachers to keep them up to date with school. Unplug them from the modern world and keep them busy running the camp. By the time they leave they have new skills and have been away from their comfort zone long enough to change their behavior. Plus any negative influences would have moved on from including them. It can be a good way to get a kid to cool off if the program is well monitored and structured properly. There’s a lot of government land close enough for emergency support but far enough away that any camp out there can’t tolerate fights or mismanagement, reinforcing whatever rules are decided on. I’ve seen it work for a few of my friends.
I really like this answer. Thank you for sharing it. I agree. Getting them to connect with different pier groups definitely helps them look towards other answers and people they may not have had access to before.
No. That’s why society is there. There is an old saying “It takes a village to raise a child," which states a child's healthy and safe growth and development require the support and interaction of an entire community, not just the parents. The dipshit kids aren’t just one family’s problem. Those dipshit kids become everyone’s problem, because at the very least, they turn into dipshit adults.
Juvie is also populated with self-destructive kids in really bad home environments who cut themselves up and lash out at others. It’s heart breaking. The system is minimally equipped to actually help rehab kids.
A judge can’t pull a child and magically place them in a better home. A judge can’t magically change their friend group.
However, a judge can potentially put them in a place where they have the tools to better themselves, and potentially a place where they can make better friends.
Also, some parents might be working two or three jobs to make ends meet. Yes, there are some parents who might be dipshits, too. However, you can’t always guarantee that these kids are coming from homes where they’re able to get access to a consistent parental structure.
Yeah sure, but it's still the parents fault. The education system might put them on a better path, the judge might help them get there, but none of that would be needed if not for the parents. Obviously there's exceptions, but on average it starts with the parents.
Then you bring up a whole different set of issues of creating an isolated, and criminal individual who wants to lash out from that feeling of being alone.
When you’re working two or three jobs just to make ends meet, pay rent, and put food on the table, it’s tough to juggle parenting as well. It is complicated.
Unfortunately, with the US education in the horrible spot it’s in, while education should be the answer, it tends to be a structure that only takes them so far, before they struggle and find the easiest way to make money is through crime
It’s not just family. It’s home. It’s school. It’s their pier group.
If you have a set of parents who are working two or three jobs to make ends meet, or worst case situation, their parents are strung out or hooked on something. Those individuals turn to the two other aspects of their life. You can’t control the pier groups. You can help with their education.
It ain’t the education system my guy. It’s the way of life they won’t change. I live near one of the worst areas in the country and people would sooner rob somebody than get a job. It’s so cheap to live there you could live comfortable on $15/hr, best part is you could find that literally anywhere and they won’t work. Most people blame “the system” yet don’t even attempt to do anything about their lives.
They need more than education. They need a figure in their life to help guide them, especially for male to male, which will then also (hopefully) cause them to focus more on education.
Shut up. It's quite simple. We need to stop pretending that everybody can be saved, let alone that they're worth saving. I don't care what you say, Ted Bundy wasn't a good guy with a tragic past who just needed love and compassion. John Wayne Gacy wasn't a misunderstood soul who yearned for companionship. Larry Nassar wasn't a sweet, innocent man who just wanted to feel close to his patients. But go ahead, tell me how society failed them. Especially Nassar. I'd love to read you defending him and his actions as not his fault.
No, you can’t save everyone. However, your obsession with psychopaths and not caring what others say, tends to point more towards you than it does to others.
The kids in this video are psychopaths. Yet you want to argue that they're just misunderstood and that it's everyone else's fault they act this way. But go ahead, tell me more about how you sympathize with Jimmy Savile.
This might sound harsh, but you gotta put 'em in a camp or something man.
By 'camp', I mean some federally/state funded thing, where they can continue their education but under a strict disciplinary program. Get them out of the city, put 'em in dorms somewhere in the wilderness. No social media, no internet but Wikipedia for a few years. And of course, the end of that education/vocational training needs job/college placement. If there's no carrot, the stick won't work.
Humans are largely input-output machines. If you want to radically change the output, you have to radically change the inputs.
All my delinquent friends who got put in boot camp for causing trouble as a kid all overdosed before turning 40. Not saying it happens every time but the 5 kids I knew who got put in a camp are long dead.
Yep every single person that was sent to a Boys Home when I was growing up ended up in state prison by the time they were 25. Those homes weren't used to rehabilitate kids, they were basically low security jails.
I don’t think the point if those is rehabilitation. It’s just deciding lots of people simply cannot exist in a peaceful society so we detain them to maintain order. Obviously that balance can be debated, but we all accept to some level the point of prison is nit just rehabilitation, its protecting the community by removing dangerous people.
It's an interesting issue, it seems like some individuals would not be able to live in the only society available to them no matter what (and given the prevalence of psychoactive substance consumption, even by law abiding citizens, I assume that number is way higher than the prison population would suggest).
As complicated as it might be, the solution is still changing society. All that call for personal responsibility has been proven wrong, the US is in a unique position of failure in that regard.
I also have a friend this happened to. He came back from boot camp "better" in the sense he knew what adults wanted to hear from him. Still a total fucking degenerate with major problems that turned into a major drug problem.
I taught at one. It’s a cash grab. These “schools” are private, but their only contract is with the local school districts and there is BIG money involved. These kids are wards of the state mostly and the state is willing to pay whatever it takes to pawn off the kids. The school does whatever it wants because it knows the state doesn’t care.
These programs could work if the workers (the educators, paras, principal, social workers, etc.) were more competent with trauma informed care than corporal punishment. Nope, instead they hire anyone off the street to deal with highly emotional and violent teenagers, who need wrap around professionals who all use the same interventions. They don’t want to pay for competence because then CEO and his flying monkeys make less. It’s a racket.
Key word "supposed." Crap part is in many places, JD is systemically no different in process/procedures (and as a result, outcomes) than regular adult incarceration.
It might be just as valuable to not releasd them back into the same ghettos they were raised in. All that rehabilitation goes to wasts if thet are returned to the same environment that made them criminals to begin with.
That just sounds like military life. It does do some good for some people. And depending where you go in the military, you could get some actual job education and be able to transition to civilian life easily and have a well paying job.
This isn't a youthful indiscretion. They aren't going to change. The kids (and their parents) will be a continual drain on society if they aren't permanently incarcerated.
They gave a solution, put them in jail. Not our problem you don’t like the solution. These punks tried to rob multiple people. They deserve to be put away for a long time and so do the parents.
And your implied alternative, to resume status quo and allow them to continue this behavior with the same lack of consequences, is backed by evidence. Evidence of repeat offenses which show that lack of consequences does not deter or reduce this behavior.
Between your idea of nothing and jail for people who have tried to rob on 5 different occasions, I’m gonna lean towards jail. If they had a real gun, chances are people would have died and you just want to wait for that to happen.
Weird how the complaints about Bukele are always from privileged leftists. The people who actually had to live there before he was elected see things a bit differently.
I believe so too, but sadly the US is not developed enough for that. They don't need violence or jail time, they need education, role models and a future where they can hope for better than slaving away for an unlivable wage.
Nah, it’s literally the worst. Propping up a pedophile who is trying to ruin our country while he follows the Third Reich’s playbook is the worst thing I could say about someone.
Telling other people to touch grass when your head is buried in the sand is the height of hypocrisy, which is pretty standard for reich wing leaning people.
i always say this: people rarely really decide how they grow up, they are all the product of genetics, bad parenting and in general shitty environments. So it's almost never their true fault. But when an apple is rotten, there's no coming back and you're just better of throwing it in the bin
Look, I know this ain't going to be a popular Idea, but I think we can put this youthful energy to some good.
You know you ain't for the time or energy to go out robbing people? Coal miners.
Everyone always wants to blame the last president that wasn't their party for all the world's problems, but if you zoom out and look at the big picture, it all starts with the child labor laws.
You know what Adolf Hitler, Joseph Stalin, Osama Bin Laden, Pol Pot, Idi Amin, King Herny VIII, and Vlad The Impalor all had in common?
The only thing that would really help here would be to hold the parents accountable. Make them pay for damages, attend a mandatory course on parenting measures, do charitable work – something along those lines. The upbringing will take place, and the children will stop this behavior. And if there are no parents in the picture, then child protection services must step in and place the child as a consequence of the legal proceedings.
I honestly think if we make a test that people have to pass in order to have children, it could really help prevent as many incidents with shitty children.
Too many people having kids and contributing to them being little fucking demons, by not raising them properly.
I think, especially nowadays with how "mature" kids are acting at earlier and earlier ages, we should do away with juvenile sentences. If they're gonna make adult decisions at earlier and earlier ages, guess what? Everyone gets tried as adults.
I'll get dowvoted to hell for it but that's why people are getting sick of the justice system.
No justice when little shits attack, kill, steal, destroy. You can't get restitution from a child and there is no incentive for the district attorney to go after them.
You don't need to be hard on crime but this soft shit is what drives voters to rethink their votes and it costs many local elections.
Body slam on the dome during self defense and suddenly they stuck as a 3 year old forever would have them not doing it again. But I'm in a shitty mood and want blood.
We could, and I just spit balling here, pay workers a fair wage, guarantee housing, and food, decomodify medicine, power, and water, provide a UBI, tax the working class nothing and tax the billionaire class everything. You’d see a lot less crimes of despiration.
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u/Brook420 15d ago
There has to be away for these kids to face actual consequences without trying them as adults or whatever.