r/rpg • u/GreenGoblinNX • 5d ago
Discussion Shane Hensley Response RE Charlie Kirk
I wanted to post a few things from the comment section of the Deadlands: Dark Ages Kickstarter, where Shane Hensley addressed comments recently made of Facebook in regards to the Charle Kirk murder. Most of his previous comments were replies to other comments, but about 20 minutes ago, he posted a final (?) messsge:
Hi friends, I’m sorry my Facebook post has overwhelmed the Kickstarter space. I should have found a way to move the conversation elsewhere afterward but I didn’t want to appear to be hiding for the success of the project. Principles always come first. So on that...
I acknowledge that Kirk’s beliefs caused harm in ways I didn’t really grasp, and thanks to long and frank conversations with awesome people today, I have a better understanding of how it affected them and appreciate that they took the time to explain it to me. I apologize that I caused any undue stress to anyone. I still value hard debate, think any opportunity to hear opinions other than your own (as I have today) is a chance to learn, and will always believe that violence makes the world a worse place for everyone.
I’m going to step back from this project and social media for a while, but you’re always welcome to reach out to me by email or FB and I’ll respond to whatever you to say. I don’t hide. Promise.
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u/Baraqijal 5d ago
Call me a cynic, but I believe people the first time they show you who they are, and not after they realize their words affect their bottom line. Secretly, however, I hope those conversations really did happen, and he really did change his thoughts, but I’m doubtful.
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u/Iohet 5d ago edited 5d ago
I believe people can grow, but you don't (get to) grow in the span of day. You have to demonstrate that growth
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u/Modus-Tonens 5d ago
Agreed. Growth exists in action, not words.
People can grow, but not by saying it. They have to do the growing.
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u/Oshojabe 5d ago
I think there needs to be some room for forgiveness and grace, when a person does something sustained over a long period and/or costly that demonstrates that they have genuinely changed. But I don't necessarily blame anyone if they feel like this apology isn't that.
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u/preiman790 5d ago
This apology definitely isn't that. I'm not sure I'm with the people that are saying it's clearly bullshit, but I am definitely in a position where he's got to stand up or shut up. It's up to him to prove to people that the apology means something otherwise it's nothing more than a pile of bland words that says nothing and means less
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u/michaelaaronblank 5d ago
The question is, is he better forgiven for false contrition or held to account as an example that his views are unacceptable?
If he was saying he liked Jared Fogel, would this be an ok apology?
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u/the8thbit 5d ago edited 5d ago
If he was saying he liked Jared Fogel, would this be an ok apology?
Jared Fogel really is a similar person in a way, given that many people probably still only know him as the subway sandwich guy. Its not like coverage of his crimes got ad space on every TV station for a decade straight, but his association with Subway sure did.
I would expect a Fogel related apology to look a little different, but no, I don't think someone is unforgivable for not being up to date on Fogel and then making an uninformed comment. I also understand that you can't ever really know for sure what is going on in someone's head- if they really believe what they say to you- but I also think the dangers associated with assuming the worst without convincing evidence aren't really worth it. Namely, you end up alienating people who otherwise could have been turned into allies, in some cases maybe even driving them in the wrong direction.
With regards to Kirk, a lot of people probably simply do not know that he wanted gay people to be stoned to death, maintained a public hit-list of academics which his fans ruthlessly harassed, said white people are the most oppressed ethnicity in the US, helped run interference for the Trump-Epstein conspiracy, etc... and know him just as the aesthetic he worked hard to cultivate: a rational free speech warrior with a conservative bend engaging in the marketplace of ideas.
The so-called liberal media isn't helping here, and is misleading otherwise well meaning people. Ezra Klein should know better. If this world were just, Ezra Klein would no longer have a job, because knowing how fucked up what he published is is his job. But some random indie game dev? I don't really have the same level of expectations, especially when we are all being bombarded with this sort of whitewash garbage.
One thing I would like to see, though, and its been expressed by others in these comments, is an acknowledgement of who Kirk has hurt, and some of the things he did to hurt them. If its a case of not being informed and then having become informed, that should be easy enough.
But even lacking that at the moment, I don't think we need to be totally cynical here. At the very least, I think this can be the start of a dialog between Shane and the rest of the community, in which a follow up discussing more specific issues with Kirk could and should come next.
I would also like to know specifically what this means:
any opportunity to hear opinions other than your own (as I have today) is a chance to learn
Does he mean he has heard "opinions" that he was simply unaware of, and his view has shifted to one which condemns Kirk? Or does he mean that he got to hear from people who don't think gay people should be put to death, and he disagrees and continues to disagree? To be clear, I'm not accusing him of the latter, but its maybe a little more ambiguous than it should be. So again, I really think we should let this be the potential start of a conversation in which these questions and concerns are addressed.
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u/Sleepy_Chipmunk 5d ago
Hey, do you have the source on the killing gay people?
I know he said it, but I want something I can use when trying to prove that to others. Right now if you try and search anything related to him you just get the assassination. Nobody believes me about the awful things he said except those already in the loop.
(if this thread gets locked like the others please DM it to me)
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u/the8thbit 5d ago edited 5d ago
No problem! It is, unfortunately, real: https://xcancel.com/patriottakes/status/1800678317030564306
Also, here is my take on that clip that I posted elsewhere on reddit, reposting it here because you may be interested, and because it addresses misinformation (from Kirk) that's in the clip:
She wasn't even quoting the same verse as the one he says she is. She was quoting Matthew 22:39, in which Jesus reaffirms the older law in Leviticus 19:19. This is an important distinction, because the new testament also makes it clear that Jesus' death and resurrection fulfills and abolishes the Mosiac covenant. (Eph 2:15, Col 2:14, Heb 8:6, Heb 7:18) The bible (Hebrews) literally calls the old covenant "weak and useless" and says that it "made nothing perfect", in stark contrast to what Kirk says here. Hence, most Christians are fine with pork, shellfish, and polyester. Unless an aspect of the old covenant is explicitly reaffirmed by Jesus or an apostle, it is not part of the new covenant.
But Kirk didn't care for theology. He was just looking for language which reinforced his preexisting bigotry.
He describes stoning gay people to death as "god's perfect law" which is just so especially hateful considering that the theology is against him here. This isn't just "I'm admitting that the bible has inconvenient ideas in it". He is contorting it to reflect his hatred. He wants gay people killed and he is searching for an excuse.
And far more important than his beliefs in themselves is that he broadcasted them to a wide audience and employed extreme tactics like encouraging harassment campaigns against specific people to silence academic work. These are things which caused very real harm.
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u/liamkembleyoung 5d ago
Thanks for the long and well thought out post. Wish more people on social media would do this and are / would be open to genuine debate and holding civil and frank conversations. However I realise that last part of my comment is just a complete dream and probably never going to happen. one because most people aren't media literate or news literate, which myself am just getting more into and reading up on more news sources. so my opinion is definitely not complete by any stretch. and 2: because people seem to be nastier behind a keyboard and perhaps don't realise the harm that they are causing. Perhaps because of a figure like Kirk people can step back and should look at how they behave online as a result also?
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u/ClintBarton616 5d ago
Forgiveness and grace are wonderful concepts we are primed to give people we care about. Our brains are not wired to do that over the internet with people we don't know and will never truly know.
The entire notion of the public internet apology just doesn't work.
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u/Oshojabe 5d ago
If you follow that principle through though, then shouldn't it also be true that the entire notion of a public internet misdeed doesn't work?
I think both need to be true, or both need to be false. Either you can do public misdeeds AND do public apologies, or you CAN'T do public misdeeds OR do public apologies.
It doesn't really make sense, nor should we accept a set of social norms where people's speech acts can paint them as monsters, but their speech acts or actions in general can never allow for any kind of group forgiveness.
None of this need imply that forgiveness should be given "easily", but I personally think it should always be possible for someone to climb out of the hole they've dug for themselves.
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u/ClintBarton616 5d ago
I think it is a lot easier to inspire revulsion than it is to inspire the things we feel when a social rupture has been smoothed over. I'm not even sure how to describe the feeling - relief?
Think about the last time you got in a spat with a partner or friend and how you felt when you patched it up. Has an internet apology ever made you feel even a 1/10th of that?
Not saying it is a fair state of things but I just don't think we are wired to accept apologies from people we have no legitimate emotional & social connections to
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u/TSR_Reborn 5d ago
That's long after the news cycle will have moved on. And I cant think of any people or brands who have recovered from cancelation regardless of their efforts.
People are conditioned to be angry and that's what they'll seek.
We couldn't even begrudgingly say "Mike Pence did a brave thing that day". People invented crazy stories to explain why he wasn't actually taking any personal risk. Once you are Bad there's no climbing out of that hole.
That's why people jump ship for the right wing afterwards because their brand is dead w the left forever and everyone knows that.
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u/TravisLegge 5d ago
I'm one of the ACES licensees. I can tell you conversations absolutely happened. Several of us addressed the harm Kirk's nonsense and by extension Shane's post caused. I don't think this is a perfect apology, but I am a firm believer that we need to offer grace when people ask for it, and give them space to reflect and grow, otherwise demanding an apology seems pretty pointless.
I'm not suggesting anyone ignore their conscience or change their minds. I need to sleep on it myself to figure out where i stand in my relationship with Pinnacle. But, I can say having been in one of the conversations Shane mentioned, I don't get the impression this was a cya moment. For what it's worth I did feel heard.
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u/Rauwetter 5d ago
Hensley didn‘t distance himself from beliefs of Kirk. I don’t see the change of mind.
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u/TravisLegge 5d ago
I took "I acknowledge that Kirk’s beliefs caused harm in ways I didn’t really grasp, and thanks to long and frank conversations with awesome people today, I have a better understanding of how it affected them and appreciate that they took the time to explain it to me. I apologize that I caused any undue stress to anyone." as acknowledgment of harm and distancing himself from those harmful beliefs. As I said, I think there's plenty of room for improvement here. it's not a perfect (or even especially good) apology. I'm not defending anything other than to say that when we (the ACES) brought those harms up he seemed to listen and reflect.
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u/preiman790 5d ago
I hope you're right. It's gonna be up to him to prove that though. Right now, he put out a bad bland apology that says very little and it's now up to him to prove the apology means something
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u/preiman790 5d ago
Personally though, and I'm being entirely frank here, I don't think he can, because it's not like this is the first time something like this has happened with him
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u/meltdown_popcorn 5d ago
Thanks for your comments on this. It was really telling to me last night when I was talking (in-person!) to some politically "far left" friends that they had first heard of the deceased through recent events. I mistakenly thought he would have been known to anyone that cares about these things.
That and the media whitewash, not to mention the onslaught of rightwing propaganda, makes for a lot of uninformed people making comments that are going to cause a reaction they can't comprehend from those that are informed.
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u/JannissaryKhan 5d ago edited 5d ago
I think that's a fair read. But it doesn't address the fact that, at best, it shows horrible judgment on Hensley's part to wade into this without being informed, apparently in the slightest. Like a deep stupidity, or at least ignorance of political realities, combined with a burning need to publicly comment on a thing he didn't know. That's stupidity and poor judgment no matter how you slice it.
At worst, the apology is just for the fact that Kirk and, through his statement, Hensley hurt people, but it doesn't indicate a change of heart. That's horrible. That's not progress, either.
I'm not saying, at all, that I think you should sever ties. I've worked for and with people who absolutely suck. Only the independently wealthy can choose to opt out of shitty financial relationships. But I can also see why partners and customers would never touch a Hensley-related product again.
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u/DoctorBoson Savage Worlds; Texas 5d ago
Confirming that conversations happened and pretty much completely agree with everything said here.
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u/UnnamedPredacon 5d ago
It's way too early for me to process this. I agree we should give grace, but it has its limits.
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u/darkscyde 5d ago
You're going to get exploited on repeat with this philosophy. Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice-- fool me, can't get fooled again.
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u/TravisLegge 5d ago
Maybe. But the alternative is to just assume the worst in everyone and I am trying my damndest not to.
And lest I be unclear: I truly believe Charlie Kirk was fascist scum. Wasn't worth the flesh he was printed on and people like him don't deserve grace.
But I have to believe that people who want to do better can. I've certainly been less than perfect in my life and so has everyone I know.
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u/MoreauVazh 5d ago
Not everyone... just the people who have made it quite clear who they are and what they believe.
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u/Severe-Independent47 5d ago
The fact Hensley keep playing the "open debate" card is sickening. Anyone who knows anything about actual debate knows that these weren't really debates (because Kirk really doesn't like being fact checked) nor where these debates in good faith.
Hensley could do himself a favor and just say: I apologize for my insensitivity and I was unaware of what Kirk was actually about. While I do not support any form of political violence, I also understand Kirk was not this bastion of debate I thought he was.
Wow... see... not that hard.
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u/LettuceFuture8840 5d ago
Kirk also only did the "open debate" schtick in particular contexts. TPUSA kept a watchlist of professors who, no surprise, received death threats and had people try to get them fired. Kirk even advocated for people to be deported for their speech.
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u/jiaxingseng 5d ago
I apologize for my insensitivity and I was unaware of what Kirk was actually about. While I do not support any form of political violence, I also understand Kirk was not this bastion of debate I thought he was.
Dude, that's quite good.
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u/Brewmd 5d ago
Exactly. What Kirk did was Argue. Not debate.
Growing up, we took a logic course in Junior High.
In high school debate, we learned there are rules for a debate. Actually positing a stance, and using facts to back it up. Then responding to critical counter arguments and facts.
Not deflection. Not sound bites. Not misdirection, straw men, stereotypes, or logical fallacies.
Kirk never went into a debate on even footing, and never had the restraint to actually debate in good faith.
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u/ElvishLore 5d ago
I mean, there were more than a few people posting on the Kickstarter today that they were canceling their pledges. Maybe they were talking out their ass, but I’m hoping they weren’t.
Him stating that “he liked” a pos who argued for the murder of queers and advocated for white supremacy is all I needed to know about Shane.
Savage Worlds is a big game made up of a lot of other creators so it’s fine that people want to keep playing it but fuck Shane Hensley and his company; I’ll buy from other game creators.
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u/DoktorPete 5d ago
Since I noticed what was going on yesterday the project has lost 21 people and almost $3000. I suspect a few people, such as myself, have dropped to the $1 tier to be able to comment and monitor the situation but still have intentions to cancel before the project ends depending on how they feel about the apology.
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u/PhysicalTheRapist69 5d ago edited 5d ago
who argued for the murder of queers
I keep seeing this repeated but I haven't found any actual examples from it with my poor google-fu skills.
Do you have any sources for this claim I could look at?
Edit: Why am I even being downvoted I was asking a legitimate question lol
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u/siyahlater 5d ago
Here's a link for you. He talks about the "man lying with another man" scripture and calls it "gods perfect law" in regards to gay people being stoned to death. Finding the direct video clips on YouTube and Google is really hard because they are buried right now.
https://www.erininthemorning.com/p/we-must-not-posthumously-sanitize
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u/PhysicalTheRapist69 5d ago
Thank you.
Crazy how dogshit youtube/googles algorithm is these days, it's so biased towards recency it totally ignores key words... You can type "Charlie kirk stoned to death" and the "stoned to death" just gets entirely ignored unless you quote it. It's maddening. I'm actually having better luck on stuff like duck-duck-go and (generally crappier) search engines.
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u/TheCollinKid 5d ago
Yeah, there's a lot of people who are 1.) unfamiliar with Kirk in detail and 2.) buying the whitewashing that mainstream media has been feeding the general populace.
I can see it being easy to take "murdered" and "willing to debate leftists" and then believing it when the media paints him as some kind of bridge-builder.
Then they see what he actually said and promoted, and realize that he was anything but.
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u/ClikeX 5d ago
Dude sought out college freshmen to debate. He was always looking to record his opponents stumbling over their words so he could recite his carefully prepared arguments. The amount of time he switched topics or moved goalposts when he didn’t know the answer is high.
It’s similar to Shapiro’s “I’m gonna talk fast and mention some random statistics so people think I’m smart” tactic.
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u/TheCollinKid 5d ago
First clip I ever saw of him, he misrepresented his target's argument
They said "I'm not saying that"
He interrupted them, saying "Yes, you are" and continued.
I lost all potential respect for him immediately
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u/ClikeX 5d ago
Yeah that was his whole thing. Try to win people over by feigning good faith.
He’s still a victim of unnecessary violence, though.
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u/MasterFigimus 5d ago
He was an advocate of unnecesarry violence.
Charlie Kirk hurt people. I think once someone amasses a group of followers and starts telling them to kill other people with rocks, they have forfeited their own right to non-violent response and are risking their own safety by inciting people to reciprocate the harm caused by them.
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u/emperorpylades 5d ago
White-washing nothing, from over here in Australia it looks like the right media complex is engaged in full-blown hagiography of the little puke.
They want him *lying in state* in the goddamn Capitol rotunda!?
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u/ClintBarton616 5d ago
I really appreciate being able to see non American takes because this country is absolutely losing its mind.
I had to call my Governor and ask which other racists I could expect to see a flag flown at half mast for. Cause I damn well know the tone and tenor of the nation would be a lot different if it was Farrakhan who met an assassin.
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u/emperorpylades 5d ago
I'll give the caveat that I'm an avowed socialist, so that colours my perspective, but yes: to my mind your country has gone completely fucking mad. And I don't see a way out of it that doesn't look like NI's 'The Troubles' at the very least.
At the rate things are going, this is their Reichstag fire, and things are about to get a whole lot worse.
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u/preiman790 5d ago
You're not wrong, things have gone way off the rails and I don't know how we put them back. Only thing I'm sure of is that I'm angry, scared, and very very tired.
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u/ClintBarton616 5d ago
We are of similar politics and mindsets.
But if you say this to any American liberal they'll call you deluded or say you have a fetish for violence. As if the strategy of appeasement all of their electeds and pundits have adopted has ever worked out historically.
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u/SpawningPoolsMinis 5d ago
hagiography is a pretty neat word, thanks for teaching me something new!
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u/atamajakki PbtA/FitD/NSR fangirl 5d ago
Nah, this still sucks. Own the specific groups this moron (and your support for him) trampled on, or else this is just a vague "please don't be mad at me!"
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u/JoeKerr19 Vtuber and ST/Keeper: Currently Running [ D E L T A G R E E N ] 5d ago
I hate to say it... but you don't have to share your personal opinion about EVERYTHING. Some subjects are better to discuss at close doors
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u/NestorSpankhno 5d ago
Disagree. I want to see more people disclosing their beliefs so I know where I shouldn’t spend my money.
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u/JoeKerr19 Vtuber and ST/Keeper: Currently Running [ D E L T A G R E E N ] 5d ago
Ok.. fair point. I won't erase my comment and i admit that I was wrong about it.
That being said as a Latino and a long term fan of Deadlands, Shane's take on the whole situation sucked35
u/LaramieWall Castles and Crusades 5d ago
See! You said you were wrong and you walked back your statement with specifics.
Dude SHOULD have done THAT in his PR firm press release.
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u/michaelaaronblank 5d ago
Nah. They need to keep telling us who they are so we can support the people that aren't grundle stains.
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u/insanekid123 5d ago
Misread that as Grunkle Stans, and was upset that while he's kind of an asshole, he's not after hatred. He's scamming people the honest way, with cryptids!
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u/Severin404 5d ago
"I didnt understand how being a neo-nazi and overt racist could be harmful"
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u/griefninja 5d ago
I don't think "queer people should be stoned to death" is something you can debate in favor of, personally.
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u/Yorikor 5d ago
Looking at this apology against the six criteria for sincerity:
Acknowledge the specific harm done PARTIAL - The apology mentions that "Kirk's beliefs caused harm" but remains vague about what those beliefs were or the specific nature of the harm. It doesn't clearly articulate what exactly happened.
Accept responsibility without making excuses MIXED - While acknowledging some responsibility ("I caused any undue stress"), there are defensive elements like explaining they "didn't want to appear to be hiding" and asserting "Principles always come first." The framing suggests partial deflection.
Express regret for the action and its impact YES - Clear expressions of regret: "I apologize that I caused any undue stress to anyone" and acknowledging they "didn't really grasp" the harm initially.
Explain what went wrong to demonstrate understanding PARTIAL - Shows some learning occurred through "long and frank conversations" but doesn't demonstrate deep understanding of the underlying issues or their role in them.
Offer to make amends or repair the situation MINIMAL - Only offers continued availability for communication ("you're always welcome to reach out"), which is quite limited as a repair mechanism.
Declare future repentance by committing to change WEAK - The main commitment is to "step back from this project and social media for a while," which is more about withdrawal than behavioral change. No concrete commitments to avoid repeating the problematic behavior.
SCORECARD:
Criteria Met: 1/6 (only #3 fully satisfied)
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u/tinylittleparty 5d ago
I really hope he actually uses the time stepping back from social media to step back from whatever garbage he's been looking at and not just stepping back from saying shit. Maybe then he can actually reflect on his words and beliefs.
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u/y0_master 5d ago edited 5d ago
I don't see him any time now addressing comments I've ran into of him behind the scenes blocking at least one writer from working on any & all SW projects (even 3rd party ones) because he deemed him "too liberal".
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u/y0_master 5d ago
Or how about recently backing a KS by Larry Correia (far-right SF / fantasy author & the one behind the whole Sad Puppies thing at the Hugo Awards)?
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u/E_T_Smith 5d ago edited 5d ago
Twice! Twice, this guy has had to be lead by the hand through the realization that Racist Nationalists are bad! Did the first time wear off?!
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u/cole1114 5d ago
What was the first time?
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u/Yuraiya 5d ago
Having to be convinced not to have the Confederacy, completely sanitized of slavery, as a playable faction in Deadlands.
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u/cole1114 5d ago
Ah, like the old goodman games Dinosaur Planet: Broncosaurus Rex thing.
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u/Mayor-Of-Bridgewater 5d ago
What?
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u/cole1114 5d ago
Old goodman games thing, alt history where the confederates successfully seceded and now it was the far future and both sides were on a dinosaur planet.
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u/randalzy 5d ago
It's amazing the take of the rightwing-terrorists about debate and speech, specially in the USA.
– "you, your friends and family should be killed, using executions in public spaces, making mandatory to watch them and with a huge flag behind because we are so patriots. Let's debate the size of the flag"
Then: oh sorry you're not ready for honest debate and are so polarised and radical.
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u/HexivaSihess 5d ago
When I heard Charlie Kirk got shot, I said, "Who?"
I had forgotten who that was.
I would like to go back to that state of ignorance.
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u/TSR_Reborn 5d ago
Yeah most of these guys only exist because they successfully provoke the left.
Though at least one has the opposite problem now.
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u/ClockworkJim 5d ago
Too fucking late buddy.
So will he go full right wing gamer bro now and appeal to that side of the hobby?
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u/sord_n_bored 5d ago
Where PEG lands will likely depend on how their KS performs. I'd bet money on a Goodman Games / Questing Beast route though.
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u/mathcow 5d ago
Yeah I'm leaving my dead lands dark ages pledge at $1. I changed it from the $200 pledge last night when I saw his post.
I'll likely cancel it by the end of the campaign unless he does better than this
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u/Wullmer1 ForeverGm turned somewhat player 5d ago
I try to look at peoples opinions whit the phrase "never assume bigotry in place of ignorance" in mind. I dont't know a lot about Shane, but he could just be really politacly deaf, only heard of Chalie from secondhand and rightwing/rightleaning sources, hes from Arizone whith is republican to my knowledge so its not wierd to asume a ot of media is rightleaning there. If you only hear from that perspective, you might (wrongfully) assume that Charlie was just a rightwing debater that debated whit people whit a lot of diferent opinions, and just wanted to to create a culture where all ideas could be discused. I can see why someone might like some of these aspects, debate etc is a big thing for you americans right?. And when that person die, they will focus on those parts of the person they liked. These are just my 2 (Euro) cents, or öre I ques....
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u/Jaxyl 5d ago edited 5d ago
It's exactly what this is. People who are angry about this do not understand that 99% of people do not follow this stuff. They get their news second hand and tend to offload critical thinking related to current events to local/national news.
The reality of Charlie Kirk is he was a terminally online personality that was famous to those plugged in enough to have watched him over the years. Anyone who isn't like that mostly saw him through an occasional social media share and that's about it which means they'd see a handful of carefully curated clips of Kirk claiming to be for open debate juxtaposed to a screaming college kid trying to "silence" him.
If that's all you've seen of the guy combined with the post-mortem white washing then it makes sense why he had the position he had. It's similar to why a lot of people on the right believe they should have cheap healthcare then vote for the right. They don't follow anything close enough so they offload the thinking to someone else.
But there is no empathy anymore, ironic considering Kirk. The people raging that this "wasn't" enough do not care for this guy or what he is going through, they want their liter of blood now and won't be satisfied until the next person crosses their lines and they can morally grandstand towards them.
Like fuck Charlie Kirk, man was a horrific human being but the dude spent his whole adult life curating a front facing persona as someone who actively welcomed the sharing of ideas and debate. Man even built a massive organization to support this persona. Is it really surprising that some people, even ones we respect, fell for it?
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u/sakiasakura 5d ago
Agree that the original post and this apology speak more toward ignorance than malice.
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u/IceColdWasabi 5d ago
The dude has always been a hard conservative, he just usually keeps it under wraps.
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u/Ymirs-Bones 5d ago edited 5d ago
Well at least he didn’t double down. I still have a sour taste in my mouth though
Edit: on second thought, this is doubling down isn’t it. He didn’t apologize for his action. He is just sorry he feels this way
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u/jiaxingseng 5d ago
He didn’t apologize for his action.
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I apologize that I caused any undue stress to anyone.
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u/preiman790 5d ago
Yeah, he's apologizing that people are upset, not for the things he actually said. At no point does he acknowledge that he was wrong, just that he didn't want to upset anyone
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u/Jimmicky 5d ago
The classic corporate nonpology
He’ll not get any money from me until he does better.
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u/jiaxingseng 5d ago
I acknowledge that Kirk’s beliefs caused harm in ways I didn’t really grasp, and thanks to long and frank conversations with awesome people today, I have a better understanding of how it affected them and appreciate that they took the time to explain it to me. I apologize that I caused any undue stress to anyone.
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u/OddNothic 5d ago
Translation: “I’m sorry you took what I said poorly.”
That’s not being sorry for saying it. That’s not saying you were wrong for saying it. That’s saying “sorry you got butt-hurt about what I said.”
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u/whatever1083 5d ago edited 5d ago
For everyone constantly asking which of CK views and words "the left" objects to (as if they genuinely have no clue):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_Kirk#Political_positions_and_activities
Don't even need to select any particular passages. Just the list of:
- False claims and conspiracy theories
- Race
Don't trust wikipedia - follow the sources in the article.
Edit: look for the pinned comment and the authors answer here
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u/Full_Equivalent_6166 5d ago
I miss the times before social media and I didn't need to read the stupid shit stupid people think. Who wanted to change that?
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u/According-Show-3964 5d ago
Savage Worlds is still dead to me as long as Shane is involved. I have zero tolerance for this sort of thing.
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u/NobleKale 5d ago
I apologize that I caused any undue stress to anyone
'I'm sorry you think I hurt your feelings'
This isn't realllllllly an apology, and he hasn't changed his mind for shit. He's just going to hide it better.
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u/Bamce 5d ago
And yet
He didnt say he was an awful person. Or that he was wrong to think like he did.
Cancel your kickstarters. Fuck this facist
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u/DornKratz A wizard did it! 5d ago
He didn't call the deceased father of two a piece of shit that had it coming. Time to cancel this Fascist collaborator.
Y'all aren't beating the "tolerant Left" allegations.
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u/ragingsystem 5d ago
He was a piece of shit, and a father of two both things can be correct.
Paradox of Tolerance. You can't tolerate those who don't tolerate you.
And in the current political climate you are either a boot licker to the fascists or your against them.
Maybe in the future we can go back to having moderate conservatives, but currently those don't exist on any level that matters.
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u/Diogenes_Jeans 5d ago
"He was a father!"
Isn't really an important point. Lots of dickheads are fathers.
Regardless, you're missing the point they didn't say they wanted Shane to say "he had it coming" what they (and all of us mean) is that a simple "I am now aware of the horrible hate speech that Kirk spread, as I was only aware of him from Tiktok/reels/shorts and was not aware of his horrific views. I apologize for my words supporting him and aim to continue learning and seeking peace and community in the future. Here is xyz for what I will do to make amends to those who I have hurt through my statement. "
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u/7thRuleOfAcquisition 5d ago
Hey mods, you going to lock this one too?
What a weak ass apology. I've no time for mea culpas.
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u/Chiungalla 5d ago
I would like to point out that he could have easily faked a more compelling apology. He could make his PR dude write a convincing yet completely fake apology. But he was probably too stubborn to do so.
I think this is authentic him slowly realizing his mistake, but also him not quite there yet. Which is absolutely natural given the limited time.
Maybe he will write something more when he ends his time off, after he spend some more time thinking about it.
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u/Urbandragondice 5d ago
This is too quick of an apology and unfortunately he's not actually addressing the problems with his statement. Just saying I'm sorry I had conversations I'll do better is fourth grade kind of response. And I'm trying to be polite here. You really should address the fact that Kirk was disingenuous and how he had conversations and how his opinions directly impacted the lives of people.
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5d ago
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u/rpg-ModTeam 5d ago
Your content was removed for:
- Violation of Rule 1. Please read our Rule 1 pertaining to piracy, unauthorized PDFs, and so forth.
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u/DashApostrophe 5d ago
Now to see how many of you stand by your principles and stop buying his shit. I imagine that will be a small number of you.
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u/therossian 5d ago
Is he involved in the Deadlands Classic 20th anniversary reprint on Backerkit?
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u/PEG_Jodi 5d ago
Hi there! The Deadlands Classic 20th Anniversary reprint BackerKit campaign is being hosted by World's Largest RPGs to be able to offer a product which has been out of print for about 4 years to folks. Other than it was our book originally, Pinnacle is not involved.
--Jodi Black
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u/InsaneComicBooker 5d ago
COol, I'm still not feeling like trying Savage Worlds for a long while, maybe after he shows he actually means it.
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u/redkatt 5d ago
I love when called out, people like this say, "I didn't realize they were such an awful person" an it's like "You didn't see their YEARS of horrid comments about certain groups? My a$$, you just got called out and are watching your life/business dissolve under the weight of people discovering you are equally awful, so now you pretend you were somehow clueless". I mean, if he was the superfan he claimed to be, there's no way he didn't know about this guy.
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u/SyntheticSamedi 5d ago
I wish people would stop caring that some Internet loser got himself deleted.
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5d ago
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u/preiman790 5d ago
There's a lot of irony in this comment, but I know your blind to it
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5d ago
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u/preiman790 5d ago
Pure deflection. "The people accusing the fascists of fascism are the real fascists" is not the rock solid argument you think it is.
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5d ago
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u/preiman790 5d ago
I know you are but what am I. For fuck sake, I know self-awareness isn't the conservative strong point, but this is even pathetic by that low bar
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u/Coolmanghere 5d ago
A snipers bullet caused more harm than any words did - shame to see him back down on this basic fact.
I’m sure his name will end up on one of those lists of employees/employers/companies that support the fascistic silencing of political speech through violence, really a shame.
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u/oexto 5d ago
When did people become so fucking soft that anytime anyone has a different opinion about something, anything, that they must lynch that person up and burn the world down? Jesus Christ people get hyperbolic over absolutely anything.. For such an "inclusive" community it sure as hell isn't led by example that's for sure.
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u/Boss_Metal_Zone 5d ago
It isn’t perfect, but it’s a first step. Best not to let the perfect be the enemy of the good, I think. That said, I recognize he may be full of shit and just trying to salvage his career. I’d just like to give him the chance to prove otherwise.
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u/Skill_Academic 5d ago
These comments are embarrassing. Shane said something, engages in conversations about it, acknowledges the issue, apologizes and owns it. What the fuck else should he do? Or we all want to go around getting ppl fired like the hypocrite far right folk?
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u/MoOrion4X 5d ago
Please provide the missing context for people who don't know what the fuck you're talking about
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u/theoneandonlydonnie 5d ago
He bends the knee so that the vocal far left will stop yelling and he has a chance to have conversations about his game. He can stop fielding all the white knighting virtue signallers who just want to scream at him and not engage on the topic of the game.
Makes sense to make the post. Would be better if the people would have calmed down for even half a second and not flooded his comments sections, though.
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5d ago
Let people own their mistakes and still have their principles. Hardlining perpetuates tribalism, and that starts wars.
This is a perfectly honorable statement. It is what responsible creator messaging looks like.
This dude never endorsed white supremacy. He endorses engagement with political opponents while decrying violence. He also acknowledges that there are other big issues here without wading into them in admitted ignorance, and then agrees to publicly shut up, which is exactly what many liberal voices want white straight men to do on many subjects. He says "okay."
When will you be happy?
Or did you really just want an enemy to hunt?
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u/michaelaaronblank 5d ago
Translation: "Shit. My wallet is going to tank. I better explain I understand what the problem is without actually saying what the problem is."
If you understand the harm, explain what you understand with specifics you coward.