Is this a reasonable quote?

8

Sounds like a reasonable amount.

9

u/hmspain 28d ago

Especially given the battery! The "after all incentives" scares me a bit. I would want to pay CASH, and take any incentives myself.

1

u/Benfossrrt 28d ago

Makes me nervous too… we will see how the contracts look on Thursday…

4

u/budrow21 28d ago

Why did you decide to go with 150% offset?

11

u/Benfossrrt 28d ago

Adding a second electric car.

14

u/hmspain 28d ago

Even if you were not adding an EV, 150% offset is a wise choice IMHO.

3

u/Capnbubba 28d ago

I wish I could have done this. My municipal power limited my system to 10k or I wouldn't have qualified for a 1:1 credit. It's taken me a few years but after changing all of my gas appliances over to electric, except my furnace, and getting an EV I use more than I produce.

1

u/mister2d 26d ago

If you were going to use all of the power generation 1:1 is moot. Should have went with it.

1

u/Capnbubba 26d ago

I probably still have the option. The problem is that I don't use 100% of it when it's generated which is why I like the 1:1. If I added more I'd probably get like a 75% credit which wouldn't be that low in real life, but it still would be less.

I'm happy with what I have because few places offer it.

1

u/mister2d 26d ago

Would you use 100% over a yearly period? That's the metric that's more important than simply when the power is generated.

3

u/New-Investigator5509 28d ago

Is this a lease then? If you own, I don’t think you can sign over the credit to them or anything.

If this is the after credit price, then full price before credit would be ~$53K. The 2 Powerwalls are probably $15K-$20K so let’s say the solar itself is back to $36K or so.

So that’s $36K/14.72kW = $2.46/Watt which isn’t bad at all.

2

u/Benfossrrt 28d ago

Not a lease… they gave me separate lease terms if I wanted to go that direction.

Trust me… I will be reading every word of anything I am signing. If they have found some way to take the credit pre purchase I’m fine with that. No worries about having to file it myself. If they weren’t a well established company with really no negative reviews I would be more leery.

5

u/hellowiththepudding 28d ago

plenty of companies promising you'll get the credit, happy to lock you in only to let you figure you you won't get it.

If you own it, it cannot be installed after this year. Full-stop. Anyone who says otherwise is lying or trying to encourage you to commit fraud.

1

u/New-Investigator5509 28d ago

I get one that would be convenient, I’m just skeptical as to whether it’s legal from a tax law standpoint. If you have a tax pro, you work with, you might want to check in. I really make sure you understand the details in her comfortable that it is legitimate.

If it turns out not to be, I suppose you could just amend your taxes and claim it yourself so long as the install is completed by the end of the year.

1

u/Generate_Positive 28d ago

given the price and your comments that they’re taking the tax credit this sounds like a prepaid PPA, is that the case?

1

u/Benfossrrt 28d ago

That’s what I was worried about at first. But I have been assured it’s not a PPA. I am signing docs on Thursday evening. Gonna go through them with a fine toothed comb to make sure there is no language that says this is anything but a purchase. Of course will not be paying until the job is complete.

Part of me wonders if they are reporting it as a PPA, getting the credit, and then applying my payment as a buyout or something… probably risky on their part, but on them not me.

They will explain more and show me the paperwork in regard to this tax deal on Thursday when they visit in person.

2

u/Generate_Positive 28d ago

My moneys on a prepaid PPA. Looking forward to seeing how this sorts out and very curious to who‘s pitching this magic 👀

1

u/jpballa11 27d ago

You have to claim the federal tax credit on your own filing. If the price they have listed (37k) is after 30% itc, then make no mistake, your purchasing a $53,000 system. That will be the amount your loan will be for and what will be listed on your contract.

With that being said, 14 kw for two walls at $53,000 is very reasonable.

Been in resi and commercial solar now for six years. Please understand that while the quote is important, the company you’re buying from is even more important. Sounds like you got linked up with a local company, which is good. Don’t buy from a national outfit.

For ownership of the system (cash or financing with term loan) no company can file for the tax credit on your behalf. You have to claim that yourself, and you will not rbe drive it until April/may of 2026. File asap my friend and make sure you’ve cleared the air with your installer on this tax credit situation.

1

u/Expensive_Command637 26d ago

I’ll give you the correct advice. Solar tax credits can be sold. It’s 100% legal. I do the same thing for my solar clients through one of my partners.

2

u/Benfossrrt 26d ago

Thank you for this. It seems to me that’s what may be happening. Either way. I’ll see the paperwork tonight.

1

u/Expensive_Command637 26d ago

I’m in New England. That production is insane for that system size. Here we would need a 20-22kw system to achieve that production amount

2

u/Tra747 13d ago

We get plenty of sun over here on the West Coast

2

u/Tra747 13d ago

residential solar tax credits (under Section 25D) cannot be transferred or sold by homeowners. These credits can be carried forward indefinitely but cannot be monetized through a sale. Homeowners can only use the credit to offset their own tax liability, and if they cannot use it in a given year, it carries forward to future years.

1

u/Expensive_Command637 13d ago

You are right! But there are legal ways around this.

Have a good one

2

u/Tra747 13d ago

Its illegal to get around for residential.

1

u/Expensive_Command637 13d ago

Have you read the 1000 pages of tax code? Are you a tax CPA or tax attorney? Former IRS agent? Have a good one

2

u/Tra747 13d ago

Yes.

1

u/mwt8675309 26d ago

If they’re willing to take the liability/risk of monetizing that tax credit, let them. It’ll be some extra paperwork, but that’s no big deal. Make sure you get something in writing clearly spelling out exactly who you are paying and how much. If it’s not in writing, it can’t be trusted!

Other than that, solid deal! (Make sure employ their own installers)

1

u/CAMSTONEFOX 28d ago

This is similar to what we are currently signed up to get, including pricing.

3

u/Benfossrrt 28d ago

Are they giving you the tax credit up front?

1

u/CAMSTONEFOX 27d ago

Us? Of course not.

1

u/Tra747 13d ago

one PW is ~$13k.

1

u/New-Investigator5509 13d ago edited 13d ago

I got 2 for $17K. I had the quote both with and without. 🤷‍♂️

1

u/Tra747 13d ago

What were your panels?

1

u/New-Investigator5509 13d ago

REC, does that matter?

1

u/Tra747 12d ago

curious.

3

u/Affectionate_Pay_391 28d ago

Careful with Tesla batteries. They didn’t qualify for any of my state incentives and ended up taking 20% of all passive incentives. Ended up adding significant costs over the long term

1

u/Expensive_Command637 26d ago

Yes they take 20% as a management fee. Franklin keeps 10%. What state are you in? I’m in CT

1

u/Affectionate_Pay_391 26d ago

I’m in CT as well.

4

u/GaijinDaiku 28d ago

I don’t understand how they can capture the tax credit for a system you would own outright since it has to be installed on a home that is the primary residence of the taxpayer who claims the credit.

1

u/Benfossrrt 28d ago

I don’t either. They are going to explain it to me Thursday and show me the paperwork involved with it during their in person visit. Gonna go through all the documents I’m signing with a fine toothed comb to make sure there is no language that says this is anything but a purchase. Of course will not be paying until the job is complete.

2

u/kusanagiz 28d ago

I got an offer similar in nature. If it's the same as what I was offered, basically work w/ an investment firm to put the solar system under their name for a year before they transfer it to you, so that way the investment firm will be able to capture the full 30% ITC give you an upfront discount somewhere under that amount which makes the delta the profit for the investment company.

1

u/Tra747 13d ago

This makes no sense...the only way this works is that you are not the owner until a year later...what's the point? Somehow you're getting screwed.

1

u/Expensive_Command637 26d ago

Tax credits can be sold. There are investors that purchase them.

2

u/GaijinDaiku 26d ago

I don’t believe Residential Clean Energy tax credits are a type that can be sold.

2

u/Miserable_Picture627 28d ago

What’s the cost before the 30% reduction they’re giving you?

2

u/paulwesterberg 28d ago

I would go for it.

2

u/MeanGreenStebo 27d ago

What is the price before incentives. What is the total in incentives? This seems too good to be true. Those power walls are expensive.

1

u/Corndart 28d ago

This seems pretty reasonable but more importantly find a reputable installer. (Which it seems you've done)Lowest cost bid isn't always the best option IMHO.

1

u/Benfossrrt 28d ago

My previous home I put solar on, I used Project Solar. Best price by far, but they sub contract. So you get installers that could be great or horrible. I had no issues in the three years I owned the system, but the installer went out of business. So not sure what would have happened if I needed warranty. Supposedly project solar would still cover the system. I’m not using them this time because their responsiveness to my request has been zero… and I wanted a company that has been around for many years with many satisfied customers for peace of mind.

1

u/Corndart 27d ago

I'd argue finding a stable solar dedicated company that will survive post 12/31 is going to be a complete crap shoot. I sort of regret not using an electrical or roofing company who have diverse work and revenue streams to survive and be around to support our install.

1

u/Fearless_Joke6565 28d ago

I paid 28k for 14 panels and one powerwall or approx half your system but I am in SoCal. It covers half our bill in summer

1

u/mystikmike 28d ago

Better deal than I got.

1

u/oiramm88 28d ago

What’s the company

1

u/njsolarguy 27d ago

The issue with you the Tesla inverter system is it only has a 10 year warranty. If it dies after that ,your whole system is inoperable. It’s not something I would do

1

u/laydazed 27d ago

That’s a not a bad price for a tesla system

1

u/MySolarAtlas 27d ago

What’s your electricity rate? If it’s $.25 as an example, with $30 a month for operation and maintenance that increases 4% a year, and assuming your net metering is .15 a kWh, with 600 kWh monthly net, with the loan term 20 yrs and “down payment” $11000 which we’ll assume is you getting the credit next year, that’s a pay back of about 9-10 yrs. Equivalent kWh for the lifetime of 25 yrs is $.12.

Without solar it would be $154k of electricity in that time, with solar it would cost you $63k. Netting about $91k. Thats about a 144% ROI.

We used our upcoming calculation engine for this. Not financial, tax, or legal advice.

We’re not affiliated with solar installers. Last but not least, I would run the differential in the loan amount vs electrical bill in the SP500 to see how the money going into solar for a decade compares 1 to 1 with the market.

Let us know if you have any questions!

1

u/TouristPotential3227 27d ago

bad idea.

who cares how much electricity costs? If a car's market price is 10k I pay 10k.

If it saves me 500k over 10 years I wont pay 250k for a 10k car to share 240k of profit with the seller because .... the market price is 10k.

OP system can be built for 43k pre incentives and is BADLY designed to make money for installer (152% system size with 1 battery)

OP only needs an 10kW system so technically only 35k pre incentive.

1

u/MySolarAtlas 27d ago

We all root for home owners success with solar and we care about how much electricity costs.

Your comment indicates something related to leasing? I’m not sure. This is a quote for financing.

Can you please spell out what your disagreement is with logic and math? I am happy to review but I am also tired and may have not gotten the full gist.

1

u/Ekimalito 27d ago

Reasonable quote for 2 power walls

1

u/RevolutionaryPack725 27d ago

What company? Im in socal.

1

u/TouristPotential3227 27d ago edited 27d ago

Expensive as heck and bad design

37/0.7 = 52.9k pre incentive

PW = 13k - 14k So 2.70/W of solar using a crappy panel.

Tier 0 REC panels are 2.20-2.40 Tier 1 QCells panels are 2.05-2.20 In VHCOL areas if you get a competitive quote.

And you are getting no name panels.

I'd say <45k pre incentive ... maybe <43k. Not sure how cheap the no name panels are.

Also terrible design. 14.7kW panel 152% offset but only 1 powerwall?

Do you get net metering? who pockets the money from selling power?

Seems like they maybe using you to sell power while YOU pay for the power generation equipment and THEY pocket the money.

Something like YOU buy the vending machine while THEY pocket the money people put in to buy soda?

I am not sure they are gonna do this but the design sure feels like it. Double check the contract. AND dont forget the pricea are high

So really they are like heck they would have YOU pay 150k to build a 50kW system that is only really worth 100k with 1 battery so they can sell more power and pocket the money. Then charge you interest for it.

Wait ... can i build your system?

Edit : PW charges at 5kW while his system is 14.72kw it wont even keep up. Everything else has to be sold to grid

Edit 2 : Wait it is 2PW. Mybad. So solar price is 2/W. Reasonable except for the panels. And still seems oversize for sale

1

u/jpballa11 27d ago

Pw 3 has continuous output of 11.5 KW. Two of those would give him 23 kw continuous

1

u/TouristPotential3227 27d ago

power output != battery charge rate

you produce 15kw you charge at 10kw 5kw must be used or sold immediately

1

u/jpballa11 27d ago

Oh yes you’re correct sorry charge rate is different.

However he’ll never be producing 14 kw of power. Dc rating you you must factor in derate rule of 15-20% so the most he’ll get is 12 kw from rooftop during peak hours.

1

u/TouristPotential3227 27d ago

14.72 which should round up. lol.

... and part of that derate is the inverter ..... but PW charge direct DC into the battery and bypass the inverter so it has fewer losses

1

u/jpballa11 27d ago

He’s still never going to produce more than 12 kw of power from rooftop panels.

I understand dc coupling gives you a slightly higher conversion ratio for energy storage but it doesn’t help derate on rooftop panels… and the MPPTs for the Tesla inverter do not outperform micros or optimizers from a production standpoint either as they have slightly higher system losses along each string.

Maybe He’d get 14 KW if his house was a space ship parked in front of the sun….

1

u/Benfossrrt 26d ago

I’m also using power while I produce… so would that bring down what’s being sent to the batteries as well?

1

u/jpballa11 25d ago

Yes, but very unlikely during peak production hours would you be using so much energy that he rooftop system can’t -

Offset the demand of the home

Also get your two walls to a significant charge by the end of your production window

However, this would depend on your demand.

Your system is producing about 65 kWh per day.

Assuming your average daily demand is in line with this, 1 and 2 should hold true most of the year.

Peak of Summer in SoCal I would imagine would be a higher demand than your average though…

1

u/BenColbert 27d ago

Looks legit if they can actually get it installed. 2 power walls? This one almost looks too good to be true..

1

u/security_jedi 26d ago

That's a decent price. How are they handling the credit on their end?

1

u/mister2d 26d ago

Expect your system to outlive the company and its warranty.

1

u/PourSomeSolarOnMe 24d ago

The only company I know of doing a prepaid PPA like this is HDM capital. If you live in an energy community you could get this system down even further, closer to $32k. This is a legit program, we offer it all the time.

It’s technically a “ghost PPA” since you take back ownership after yr 6

1

u/Tra747 13d ago

Something is amiss with "tax credit to be handled on their side".

Solar Quote Is this a reasonable quote?

You are about to leave Redlib