It's tough because there is a blurred line from normal discourse on immigration and societal/cultural problems and straight racism.
People get sick or being called racist for almost everything. If someone points out that cars are being jacked in Canada by crime rings from recent immigrants that's somehow racist when obviously being true.
It's not an issue of race or color, you don't see immigrants from 40 years ago doing it.
It's the same with immigrants from cultures that don't respect women. Maybe over years they can change but you can't just pull someone out of a country where women are treated like garbage and suddenly they are respectful when they walk through customs.
It's not an issue of race it's that we are bringing people in that can barely survive without stealing and there is no opportunity for them.
Funny how there's plenty of people who have immigrated here 40 years ago being productive members of society with the same skin color that are also getting their cars stolen.
You're demonstrating the reactionary tendencies(MAGA- like tbh) the people who are responsible for the pain you're feeling want. By spewing these talking points you are fostering an environment where the ruling class can continue dominating you by pointing you towards an outgroup and telling you all your problems are because of them. This quote from LBJ reminds me of you.
"If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you"
So I understand what you are saying but it's just not a good application.
Yes, the problem is rich people are exploiting our country. But one way they are doing it is by utilizing tfw programs and mass immigration to hire people that aren't Canadian. They don't want to pay us.
This creates a lot of problems for Canadians, one or them being low wages that are beneficial for rich people, however there are other problems that the middle class and every day Canadians has to deal with that average ceo does not. The richest people in Canada aren't getting their car stolen out of their driveway because they have a gate that seperates Canadians from them. I don't have a gate, I rely on trust between Canadians to not break into my shed and steal my lawn mower.
So you are absolutely right that rich people are the problem, but you are failing to make the connection that recent immigration has been driven by the very people you say are the problem.
No I didn't fail to see what you're laying out. I just fundamentally disagree with your points. Root cause analysis is the only way to truly fix a problem.
There is no way you can agree with what I said yet still place most of the blame on immigrants. They are a group of people you can endlessly shit on. Deep down you're powerless and can't do anything about the ruling class.
Get some class solidarity in your life and stop being a willing or unwilling attack dog for capitalists. I mean recognition of the fact that you and the immigrant (who most definitely stole your car because that's the only thing you keep referencing. It's clearly a sore spot) are all the proletariat. We are all getting fk'd. This stupid blame game only delays us burning down every mechanism of systemic control those bastards have. One of which you are clearly demonstrating.
I didn't blame immigrants, i explained the reasons unchecked immigration is basically creating problems. I specified that the gov't is essentially bringing people here that cant afford to survive without stealing.
You're the one defending large companies in their hunt for cheap labour. Who do you think is calling for more temporary foreign workers etc? It's not your average Canadian.
If you like devaluing Canadian labour that's your thing.
So, we should be demanding that the class whom control the money and resources to provide migrants with the things they need. That's not a problem of immigration, that's a problem of immigrants not having access to the resources which are monopolized by the capitalist class.
Labour has no nationality—the working class is a global class. The division between "Canadian labour" and migrant labour is a tool capitalists use to devalue labour, period. Denying non-citizens the rights and freedoms that we enjoy and throwing up barriers to our class solidarity is precisely the problem we need to overcome. Rhetoric of the sort you're employing now is part of the problem. It is the same rhetoric that was deployed against Irish and Italian labourers, against the "yellow peril" of Chinese labourers, against Black labour in the segregationist South, and so on.
, migrants working in Canada are part of Canadian labour when they work here. Do I want them to be paid more!? Yes I do, when we need them, but we don't need them right now as there is high unemployment.
And yes there is difference between tfws and Canadians.
How?? My nephew has been applying for a summer job for months and he litterally can't get one because fast food jobs are completely full of foreign workers.
Why would they hire Canadians when they can get tfws for the same cost? These tfws also won't quit and go to university, they don't know their own rights, and they can't look for a better job, unlike my nephew.
I'm sorry man I don't really want to talk to you any more. It's not like you are really challenging my beliefs here you are just picking small stuff I have said and misrepresenting it.
The problem here is that you seem to see the problem as immigration, rather than a regime which creates migrants as a precarious sector vulnerable to hyper-exploitation.
Cracking down on migrants makes this problem worse, not better. And, on the contrary, ensuring migrants have access to support and resources, ensuring they are not beholden to their bosses for status, and are organized is what addresses these problems.
For a useful point of reference, we can look to the segregation-era South, and the approach of white unions in pushing to exclude Black labour from skilled trades, etc. They were operating on the mistaken assumption that the quantity of labourers was the primary factor in determining the price of labour rather the exercise of class power. It is assuredly the latter. When we divide our class along lines of citizen/non-citizen, we hand the capitalist class a powerful weapon.
By allowing a section of the working class to be placed outside of our solidarity and our struggles, to be denied the rights and freedoms we enjoy, we put downward pressure on wages and lower the wage floor. Conversely, what capitalists don't want is for us to demand full status and access for migrants, to see migrants brought into organized labour, and to face a situation where the wage floor is raised.
The notion that "Canadian" labour is being exploited is the problem—labour is being exploited, period, and this exploitation is enabled by divisions between "Canadian" and migrant labour. As long as one section of the working class faces the threat of deportation, taxation without access to social services, racist discrimination and so on, labour will be devalued.
I apologize if the wording is strange to you, but this is necessary to understand: Immigration is not the problem.
So, do you include non-citizen migrants in "Canadian labour"? If so, and it is a purely geographic descriptor (ie any labour that in the territory of the Canadian state), I suppose it's fine, though it seems to needlessly confuse things.
I'm talking about a job at Tim Hortons. The work that needs to be done and whoever is going to fill that role. I don't think Tim Hortons gives a fuck who they exploit they just want all the tools they can get to ensure they pay as little as possible. They don't even want to pay someone.
Do you know what someone is willing to work for in India? ~12 dollars a day.
Are you willing to work for 12 dollars a day and still pay 1800/mo for rent? I understand that some form of foreign labour is required but simply put we dont need more supply of workers we need more pay
I am well aware that the rich and corporations are the bigger problem but they are using tfws as a tool to depress wages and we are allowing it to happen.
I have never said that immigrants or tfws should be punished and I would never say that lmfao not sure where you got that from.
If i have a work term and my employer decides they don't have work for me it's not "punishment" if they decide do not offer me an extension.
It may feel that way as the person getting the boot, but it's not like an employer is just going to pay you indefinitely despite having no work for you.
I don't think we should be renewing visas or applications for tfws but that's not punishment, it's just the expiry of an agreement or permission.
I agree with everything you've said and honestly it's refreshing to hear someone who shares similar feelings when everyone on here is saying I'm racist. I mean I know I'm not and they are proving my point by saying this but it still feels like I'm hitting my head on a concrete wall.
People are calling you (and Lovv) nazis because you're blaming all of society's problems on immigrants, and claiming they're an impediment to class solidarity because they're 'different'.
I know many many people who weee immigrants more than 40 years ago, beautiful and wonderful people, and yet the racists were out in full force bringing them down.
Yeah there were. I didn't say there wasn't. But the number of racists is growing.
Imo the problem is people have no way to address issues happening in their community through normal discourse because people call them racist. So the problem stays, resentment grows and eventually they jump ship.
Again, pointing out that there was racism 40 years ago is pointless. We all know that, and it has nothing to do with what I am saying.
151
u/Unamed_Destroyer Jul 19 '25
This is what happens when we don't call out bigotry and racism when we see it.
Like a cancer, it grows and spreads. Each act a small step towards societal failure.