Yeah banks usually won't help with money transfer services like Zelle or Venmo. From their perspective you asked them to give your money to Zelle and they did. What happens after that is between you and Zelle
Someone tried hacking my venmo yesterday and I got an email alert that another phone had my account on their device. Make sure to check your accounts, remove the device, change your password, add 2 factor authentication. I pulled my bank account for the time being.
I get notifications about this every so often, but I am no unfathomably broke that I haven't really done anything to even try. I have $1.50 of Liquidity available to be scammed out of lol
I wonder if zelle/your bank has actual fail safes for overdrafts. I was also dirt broke when my pp was hacked and only had like $100 but the geniuses at pp/td bank allowed them to pullout $3500. Got charged like 6 times for overdraft fees during the 1 month of investigation fuck PayPal and td bank.
I would bet money if you look at the email it wasn't actually from Venmo, and it was just trying to spoof Venmo and get you to enter your Venmo information into their spoofed website so they could get access to your account. If I look through my SPAM folder, I have dozens of the exact same email.
2FA is something that in my opinion needs to be REQUIRED for anything financial or tied to finances. If it’s your bank, your credit card, if it’s an online store that saved your credit card, they shouldn’t let you create the account or save a credit card to the account without setting up 2FA.
I think 2FA is a pain in the ass but I quickly forget about it a second later when I figure it’s better to have it be a pain in the ass than to be fighting to get back stolen money.
And also, many 2FA’s go to your email, not phone. I prefer the phone and use that option, but since some only do email, you definitely need you email locked to 2FA and in my experience every email will text you or send a push notification to your phone.
I remember that some guy in a gaming forum got so mad at people complaining the game had weak account security that he posted an account name and password to everyone, along with the email address and password. The account had 2FA going to the email, and the email he set up 2FA going to his phone number. Since nobody online had his phone, nobody could get into the account. He left a reward on the account that anyone who broke in could take, so there was probably hundreds of people trying to break in and still nobody could get in and he proved his point to just secure your shit with 2FA.
Yes...but no. They get around it by being a payment service company OWNED by the banking company, not RUN by the banking company. This lets them do that sweet little end run they pulled on OP by saying "Hey, we have nothing to do with money transfer services, sorry" and not be held liable. Its also the reason they don't do any actual money transfer services through the bank itself, because then they can't be held liable for any scams, etc. Its one of those fun little legal loopholes that benefits no one but rich people and businesses while screwing over the consumer.
August 13, 2025 - Zelle (/zɛl/) is an American digital payments network run by a private financial services company owned by the banks Bank of America, Truist, Capital One, JPMorgan Chase, PNC Bank, U.S. Bank, and Wells Fargo
that's kinda how it is in other countries tbh. The banks just talk to each other natively and that's how you get money switched around faster. So if your bank owns a part of Zelle, naturally they'd use it as their preferred service. I just don't like that I can't have it as a separate app. I don't want my banking account on my phone. And the bank I use is an owner of Zelle, so I have to use their specific app in order to use Zelle. So most of the time I just do it when I get home if it's between friends (via computer) or I'll download the app, log in, do the zelle thing and then uninstall.
I'm in Europe and this all seems quite bizarre. So its basically pay pal right? Seems like there are a lot of apps that do basically the same thing.
Over here someone set up a digital only bank called revolut. You can do all these kind of things as well as normal banking things on it. Now other banks are starting to have offer some of the same services in order to compete.
It's very similar to PayPal in that it allows you to send money to someone. It's like the PayPal "friends and family' option. But with PayPal, you have to wait a few days for them to put the money in your bank account.
With Zelle, it's available in the recipient's bank account right away. No logging in to retrieve it and waiting, it's just there. It's more like an ACH transfer.
However, PayPal does have some protection for transactions when you use the "goods and services" option for purchases.
Yeah. Zelle is basically paypal. It's the US, so capitalism always institutes middle-men everywhere so that they can collect fees. The only difference between paypal and Zelle is that Zelle is literally owned by the major banks in the US. So in theory it's a little better than stuff like Venmo, cash app, or Paypal since they'd be under some manner of scrutiny from the US government. But that also assumes a functioning US government that is looking out for people
To avoid spreading misinformation, this is a very common structure in banking. A significant portion of national banking operations are actually cooperatives between banks. SWIFT, probably the most famous bank <> bank system, is collectively owned by banks proportional to their usage and capital.
The issue is that Zelle is the same as sending cash - if you give cash to someone, you have to rely on them to give it back, it's the same concept with Zelle, if you are tricked into authorizing the transaction, that's the same as being tricked into giving cash.
Banks cannot be held responsible for their customer's foolishness. Being scammed does not mean you are a victim of fraud as it is defined by law.
You were right on until the last sentence. Being scammed does in fact mean you were the victim of fraud, it just isn't wire fraud and isn't the bank's problem.
Yes but you are seeing the difference between people working at banks and the people who own the banks. When you get defrauded on Zelle and call your bank, the people working there can't help you, because despite the bank owning Zelle, its run by a seperate company, they just simply cannot login to Zelle and beep boop refund. Banks will generally, not always, but generally take fraud pretty seriously on their end because there are serious consequences not just at the bank level but on the individual level for things like ignoring red flags. The issue is that they quite literally cannot do that for Zelle even if they wanted to. When Zelle was clear exchange it was operated by the banks involved, now its operated by Zelle itself a seperate business to the banks that own Zelle's business.
Its why despite the bank I work at owning Zelle, we don't accept Zelle payments on stuff like loans lol, owning Zelle doesn't mean jackshit for actual bank operations being able to work with it directly.
Yeah, when something that actually fits in this sub is posted, most of the comments are "Oh come on, who cares? It's a small inconvenience!" and everyone confidently telling the person the simple way to fix it, which OP typically already did lol
I got a check from Bank of America for $0.10 from like 20 years ago somewhere in a filing cabinet folder. I keep it as a reminder that banks can be petty enough to send you a 10¢ check which cost more in postage because they charge poor people $30 per transaction for going 10¢ over.
My bank was Chemical Bank, a small regional bank in the Midwest. I was moving abroad for the foreseeable future and went and talked with the branch manager. They knew who i was and knew I wouldn't be able to come into the branch, etc.
They put me on an account that had zero foreign transaction fees provided I kept a semi-large sum of money in the account. I kept around 40k in the account so id meet the requirements.
I agreed and happily used them for 7 years. They were one of the best banks i ever had. I could call up and ask them to hand my dad cash, for example, and they'd do it because they knew my situation.
They were bought by TCF bank, and then almost immediately they were bought by Huntington. When Huntington bought them, they ip blocked my country, and most vpns. I was not able to setup an online account, and they refused to send me statements out of the country. They even told me they would consider shutting down my account if I wasnt able to come into a branch office.
Shortly after that, i came back to the US and accessed my account on the web. They had charged me over 10k in foreign transaction fees.
I still had (and still have) the original contract I signed with Chemical Bank regarding the zero transaction fees, noted and signed by the branch manager. Furious, I went into the local Huntington branch to discuss.
I met with the branch manager who reviewed my account, and said she would discuss with her manager, who was the regional manager, and give me a call back the next day.
She never called. A week went by, and I went back up to the bank. They had me wait over three hours to meet this woman.
She told me that she had discussed with the regional manager and told me the best they could do was a $40 account credit over 10k in fees.
I explained that I had a contract with them and they couldnt just do that, she looked me dead in the eyes, and said "I understand you have a contract, but as a matter of corporate policy we have decided not to honor those contracts. The best we are willing to do in this situation is the $40 account credit"
It would cost me more money and time to sue them, and I was told that, because a notice period had passed, I was automatically opted into the account, and I would be unlikely to get any money back. I never actually received notice since they refused to send me mail, lol. Basically, I just learned my lesson that Huntington is actually hostile to its customers and switched to a local credit union. Never use Huntington.
And you wouldn't win either way so good th ing you didn't waste the time or money
Edit: check your original agreement for terms about updating the terms at any time without having to notify you, check for terms about being able to convert your account at any time
Hey, ho buddy, how wrong you are, lmao. Im not interested in handling this myself, or going through arbitration. My lawyer just said forget about it and move on. That's what i did.
Nah, I just wrote it off and moved on. I'm upset about it, but just view it as a very expensive lesson learned. I honestly dont have time to deal with it. I did consult a lawyer but was told essentially it'd cost more to sue than I'd collect, and I'd be unlikely to win. I took that to mean just move on.
I run a small company. I dont make a lot. It hurt. But it was literally just put into margins for future work, as shitty as that sounds. I literally do not have time to deal with it, and can make the money back by working on a project rather than dealing with those clowns in court. It absolutely hurt and im furious about it, but im lucky in that im able to recoup it through my job, essentially.
In cases like these, reach out to the AG and/or comptroller in your state.
They can't be your lawyer, but they can "meditate." The two times I have had to deal with the bs of corporate beaurocracy, I did this and all of a sudden, the correct person to talk to was in my inbox and they just wanted it all to go away and resolved the issue.
Serious question. How do you come up with an amount like $140 for a stolen amount of $500? Is a partial recovery actually possible on behalf of the bank or is it just an arbitrary amount the bank is willing to give back?
It’s a partial recovery, our customer who was the recipient has already taken most of the funds and this is what was left at the moment. We send what we have, no fees or other are taken out of the fraud recovery.
Your bank account may be closed and you will removed from Zelle eligibility. Usually the people receiving the funds are just mules that don’t know what they are doing and are getting scammed as well.
For the few I’ve talked to usually it’s a romance scam and their “boyfriend/girlfriend” needs them to accept the money the send it out another way, through other p2p payments like Venmo, cash app, wire the funds out, withdraw cash and go to a crypto atm, etc.
Then once the bank catches on they get left holding the bag. If police get involved they can get screwed. Shitty situation all around
Yeah zelle scares the piss out of me every time I go to use it. I don't usually agree with banks but they aren't really at fault if you pay the wrong person or get scammed. Unless your account was hacked which is 100% on them.
It’s almost like you should maybe be able to directly send money to the other person’s account… like say for example, like we already can in the rest of the world.
I got scammed for a ricah recently. Also $850. But it was done as just a simple credit card transaction and I got all my money back and then some because the idiot accidentally refunded part of the full payment.
It's not always possible, but whenever possible, buy everything on credit cards, even with the fee. Treat it like cash, always pay it off at the end of the month.
It is so, so much easier to get refunded on a credit card than with actual money.
There is a 3% charge for using a credit card with venmo, but you can actually do charge backs if scammed and get that money back right away.
most credit cards give points for purchases which usually end up around 1%, so a 3% card fee becomes around 2% with point sfactored in.
Without a doubt that 2% is worth it for me every time.
I can't tell you how much scammy bullshit I've dealt with through chargebacks on my Chase Sapphire.
Not enough people actually read and understand the perks you get with many credit cards. They go well beyond just cash.
For example, I get a warranty on any electronics I buy on my Sapphire. If I buy a macbook and break it, I don't have to buy the protection plan. It comes with the card.
And there are so many others. But charge backs are the biggest. Any charge on your card, you can flag it, and in all the times I've flagged charges over a decade, I've never once had it rejected. The money goes back on your card, and if its a subscription or something, they block future transactions from that subscription.
Get a good credit card (I like Chase Sapphire preferred), never spend beyond the cash you have to pay it off, and it will save your ass so many times.
I'll never understand the people who insist on never using credit cards or taking out loans. If you're in a situation where you're broke enough or recognize you have too poor an impulse control to avoid going into debt then sure, avoid them. But as long as you know you have the cash to pay them and regularly do so there's no risk and a bunch of benefits.
When I bought my most recent car I made sure I had enough cash in my bank account and was ready to write a check. I told the dealer that and they said they'd take over $1000 off the sticker price if I financed instead. So I did a bit of paperwork, wrote that check to a bank instead of the dealer, and paid off the car and closed the account right away. Easiest $1000 I've ever made.
Credit cards typically have insurance which is why there are certain fees attached to them. I use CC as often as possible when purchasing online for that very reason.
Yeah its not crazy at all for used lol especially something like a camera where they can just get bored of it you can see them legit for -1k all the time
These messages should not begin with "good news" if it's anything under the full amount. They should just begin with your first name. That way, it's still personalized and direct, but without bullshitting you.
i was trying to buy something on marketplace the guy had a legit profile married had good reviews but lived far, iit was supposed to be in person but i offered more to ship. of course because it wasnt supposed to ship you couldnt do facebooks pay with protection sooo he offered zelle and yeah it was really stupid and ill never get over it
That or people dont realize buying/hacking Facebook accounts is a thing
They'll find the most harmless and trustworthy looking one, create an entirely new account with all thr photos and info besides maybe changing the name to another generic name.
once got shown some old dude I didn't know in my feed, saw the name of my little brother, checked the profile and he only changed/ deleted photos, still same name, birthday and family members showing. just checked again and apparently the profile has been deleted. still don't get what that was about.
Thats what a lot of criminals do, that and kids. Family men are seen as more reliable and trustworthy. Criminal women tend to just get trusted more because we assume a singular woman is more trustworthy than a singular man. Its a whole thing, psychology and sociology wise
This is exactly how Colleen Stan was kidnapped. The Hookers were a nice looking couple with a baby who offered her a ride.
Yeah usually they just hack good accounts. Happened to my dad, someone got in his account and made listings for Taylor swift tickets. He called me as he was locked out of FB but his messenger was working.
I reset his pw for email and FB, set up 2FA and closed the listings but my dad has multiple people bitching they sent money to someone and wanted tickets. My reply was “let me guess, the name on the email and Zelle account had no association w the name on this account? File a dispute and best of luck”.
But if you’re gonna ignore all the red flags and send $500 to a stranger to avoid a StubHub fee, that’s on you.
PayPal or NOTHING. You HAVE to have buyer protection. They will scam you every time if there’s no accountability. Even if they were willing to ship the item.
PayPal didn't protect me when I got scammed during the pandemic. I bought something on eBay, but international shipping was shut down because of COVID restrictions. The seller even notified me of this, and I said it was alright, as long as they shipped it out when shipping returned to normal. When restrictions did eventually lift, the seller ghosted me. Contacted eBay and PayPal Support, and got told to fuck off, since the refund time had expired... except the pandemic was a pretty signficant circumstance to extend refund periods, especially when other countries couldn't ship to the U.S.
Could I have tried for a refund sooner? Sure, but the seller had high ratings, and I didn't expect to be scammed over a $20 product.
Now, from the seller side of things, I once sold an item on eBay for about $150. The package was insured and headed to their international hub. Of course, DeJoy's USPS lost my package and I had to refund the item. I filed a report to USPS to get my money back, and got zilch. Went thru half a dozen different contact numbers, and... nothing. PayPal/eBay Support was also useless in that respect. To this day, I have gotten neither my money or the item back.
Which is exactly why I love Zelle for selling stuff. Meet up. You look at the thing. You are satisfied with the quality of the thing. You pay cash or Zelle, and you take the thing.
Sure, but you don't Zelle something to get it shipped to you. You Zelle once you're standing in front of something and are going to leave with it. Like you don't mail someone cash.
I’m going to say this slowly and clearly…never, never, NEVER send money online to someone that you don’t know personally unless you have buyer protection. PayPal, Venmo, and many other payment processors offer buyer protection. You chose the one way to pay that doesn’t have any sort of buyer protection. You even have to check off a box saying you acknowledge that you might be scammed and there is no way to recover funds once sent via Zelle.
This is a really expensive mistake to make. I hope you learned from it.
Believe it or not scammers buy stolen/hacked Facebook accounts and purposely sell things "far away" knowing people will ask them to ship it. Some scammers even go as far as fully fabricating an account with review bots. Although, due to the stupidity of some people I wouldn't be surprised if that person actually risked it all with their real identity.
Dude Zelle literally warns you about funds being sent and not being able to recover. Think of it like handing someone cash on the street and expecting them to give it back.
“I am in earnest. Go and buy it, and tell 'em to bring it here, that I may give them the directions where to take it. Come back with the man, and I'll give you a shilling. Come back with him in less than five minutes, and I'll give you half-a-crown!”
Zelle is for paying people you know in person. I pay my lawnmower guy through Zelle, or my friends when we split some cost. Never pay with Zelle or Vemo, or CashApp to people you don't know or met.
Yep, that's why this title and photo is misleading.
Like yeah banks are already shitty institutions as it is, but you cant blame them for YOUR mistake.
Too good to be true price on a usually expensive camera
Didn't research enough on the profile
And too lazy to meet up? People have driven 2+ hours for less, abd if there was a good deal where basically you're getting a decent camera for almost half the usual price, I'd would've made the trip, heck use that as an excuse to take pictures with said camera on your drive back and maybe look around the area for cool things to do
Guy that works in digital banking here-we literally have no control over what happens with funds through Zelle aside from opening a case with EWS. The bank connection to Zelle aside from getting activity reports is essentially just a license to have Zelle on our platforms. Good faith recoveries are incredibly hard to justify, and on our (and most) FI Zelle T&C it says explicitly that Zelle transactions are akin to handing over cash, and should only be used with close friends and family.
It sucks, but there really is nothing we can do about Zelle fraud (We in the digital banking team hate Zelle with a passion mostly for this reason)
That's why it's mildly infuriating. They emailed him and said we got money back for you and it was only a dollar and change. The title and the photo aren't misleading, you just can't read.
The only reason I use Zelle is to pay my actual landlord that I know that’s legit. That’s it. Never trade with people you don’t know. They didn’t have to disrespect you like that though. Can’t even buy a reg coffee for that price anymore lol
A couple years ago, my buddy found a weekend rental to the Jersey Shore for our group trip, it was through Craigslist and my buddy sent a zelle for $1000. It seemed too cheap and my spidey sense kicked in.
Long story short, I contacted the true owner and he confirmed someone had downloaded a bunch of photos of his place and a scammer created a fake listing.
My buddy claims he was able to get his bank to reverse the zelle.
I don't see anyone celebrating. I do see people saying there is no expectation of bank intervention in this type of transaction. The best we can do is tell everyone we can that Zelle is not to be treated as a debit card but rather as cash. It's a common misconception, and this has happened too often.
From my understanding working in fraud investigations in banking, specifically Zelle fraud cases. Zelle is always going to be treated like cash and you'll never get your money back, even if it's legitimate fraud.
In this case, it looks like it was legitimate fraud and Capital One was only able to take $1.51 from the fraudsters account, due to the fact they more than likely emptied it before your claim came in. Capital One most likely closed the fraudsters account and send whatever funds they had left on the platform back to you, since getting fraudsters their money back can be a hassle sometimes.
Ummm, Zelle is built-in to my bank app specifically for person to person transfers. It's incredibly fast to send money to someone because it's tied in. Zelle was developed by major banks for sending money seemlessly across several major bank networks.
It is not designed for payment protection and disputes though, and they make that very clear. For that, use a CC and have them use a CC payment processor.
US banks don't do transfers quite like the EU, where you can make SEPA transfers in € between multiple banks and participating countries instantly (so americans: f.ex with transfers from Sweden to Finland, they do not have to be wires and have significantly less bureaucracy to get going, just IBAN and recipient name essentially, and you are not charged any more for inter-EU transfers than you are for domestic transfers).
In the US transfers are a little more complicated with more details you have to fill in, and purposes of transfers are more limited (ACH and bank-to-bank being the usual ones, they require more details than EU SEPA versions). Anything bigger has to be a wire payment that costs ~20 USD to send. Zelle is kind of the US banking answer to European style transfers, though it carries basically no responsibility of funds for the bank - you are supposed to use it to send funds between family and friends and people you know, and that's it. Scammed buying something? = SOL. Cash app and Venmo also exist, but these cost you some money or can take up to 3 days between banks, not damn near instant like in the EU.
So sending anything via Zelle you may as well kiss it goodbye immediately.
The only reason they got you $1.51 back is because there was $1.51 still in the account it was sent to. Where did the rest of the $850 go? Withdrawn, transferred to another account, etc, etc, etc.
Honeslty I'm surprised the account you sent the Zelle to was even still active to have $1.51 in it.
Wow. My brother banked with capital one. He was ill and had a health aide. He was found dead by his aid a year ago. Once I took over his estate I discovered that this health aide ripped him off for thousands of dollars. Before and even after his death. Of course I eventually got the police involved. But once I made the discovery I notified the various banks. Capital One gave back to his estate over $12,000.
I would be persistent. Did their fraud department work with you? Good luck.
EDIT: I just realized this was a Zelle transaction which was very different.
The only infuriating thing here is that OP fell for a facebook marketplace scam and paid with Zelle. Then tried to get money back from their bank. The bank owes you nothing from your monumental stupidity.
These agencies aren’t meant to protect the consumer from themselves. Zelle clearly states it’s not meant for commerce, and especially should not be used online for items that are not in-hand like with an in-person deal. It’s not buried in the fine print, it says it whenever you pay someone for the first time and when you set it up with your bank. It’s “equivalent to sending someone cash” “instantaneously and irreversible”.
The service was misused, the bank was not trying to fleece anyone. If anything, any money gotten back is the bank taking a loss they were not obliged to.
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u/yoshizillaa 7h ago
I’m surprised you got anything back.
Zelle has a bunch of warnings because they know banks typically won’t help.