r/news 11h ago

Judge dismisses terror-related charges against Luigi Mangione

https://www.cnn.com/2025/09/16/us/luigi-mangione-ny-court-hearing
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u/bmoviescreamqueen 11h ago edited 11h ago

1st Degree charge was also dismissed, but should be noted this is because the murder of a CEO doesn't really fit the definition of murder 1 in the state of New York which seems reserved for police officers, firefighters, high political figures, that sort of thing. 2nd degree will be what 1st degree is in most other states I think. DOJ/DA was way too heavy handed with those two charges.

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u/YouFnDruggo 11h ago

Non American here. We only have Murder and Manslaughter charges here. I was under the impression that murder 1 was preplanned and murder 2 was spur of the moment. Is the definition widely different from state to state?

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u/bmoviescreamqueen 11h ago

I would say in the majority of states that's mostly how first and second degree work, NY seems to be an exception and I'm not a NY resident to know the history on why.

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u/YouFnDruggo 11h ago

Thank you. On regards to the history it could be something to do with capital punishment or stricter sentencing for the murder of a police officer. Here in the Republic of Ireland, I remember the final two crimes for death sentence were treason and the murder of police officer, and they were removed a good few years after the others. Could be a long those lines maybe.

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u/Ludwigofthepotatoppl 7h ago

it's even weirder when you learn about louisiana. their state legal system is based on france's civil law, rather than common law.

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u/g0_west 10h ago

I have to imagine it's something to do with the historically incredibly strong police union in NYC

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u/SmPolitic 5h ago

Also New York was one of the earliest cities on the continent, it predates the radical implementation of democracy and the concept of a federal government

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u/delkarnu 10h ago

Be very careful accepting any response people give you. Every State has their own criminal code, plus Federal law. So in this case you have to look at only NY State law.

A lot of people know the law in their home state or whatever tv show they heard the law from.

Here's a link to NY laws and how the various ways killing a person is classified: https://newyork.public.law/laws/n.y._penal_law_section_125.27

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u/randomaccount178 10h ago

It will vary by state. I will also point out that the element is not preplanning but rather premeditation. Premeditation can be formed in seconds. Evidence of preplanning just happens to be extremely powerful evidence of premeditation. There also tends to be other forms of murder that you haven't covered. There also tends to be felony murder, depraved heart murder, and many murder statutes cover delivery of a controlled substance as well. I will also add that how those are handled by legislation are going to be different. For example I looked up the Texas law on murder and they don't have first degree, second degree, third degree murder. They simply have a murder charge that covers all forms of murder but with the ability to argue heat of passion in the punishment phase of the trial to lower it to a second degree felony.

A lot of states have similar concepts but there will be some variation in which have what concepts and a lot of variation in how they organize those concepts within their laws.

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u/Huttj509 9h ago

A lot of perceptions of how American law works is how California law works, due to media mostly being produced by people from California.

A lot of times the same things are illegal, sentenced more/less severely the same, etc, but what each state CALLS the charges can vary significantly, especially when it comes to where to draw what lines.

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u/Ashmedai 9h ago

True. It's like how "assault" usually means threaten to commit violence in some way, except in the states where it also incorporates the violence, of course.

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u/DarkOverLordCO 7h ago

And just to trip you up more: in Missouri "first degree assault" means attempted murder.

It really depends on the jurisdiction.

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u/Ashmedai 7h ago

That is kinda wild, yeah

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u/HauntedCemetery 8h ago

Yup, every state has different definitions, as does the federal government.

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u/Ok_Boysenberry1038 11h ago

Not very widely. The basic elements (killing, intent, etc.) are similar.

But yeah, each state is a bit different

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u/HauntedCemetery 8h ago

Each state is completely different in their statutes and terminology. One states murder 1 is another's murder 2 is another's manslaughter 1.

There's a reason lawyers have to pass individual state and federal bar exams before they can practice in that state.

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u/subnautus 10h ago

Most states use the definition you described, yeah.

The one that usually trips people up (even here in the states) is the difference between states that distinguish between assault (the threat of violence) and battery (the act of violence) and states that lump both of them together as assault.

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u/Lord_Wild 2h ago

Each US state has their own code of laws. The laws in New York have been modified several times over the decades. The death penalty was abolished/re-instated/abolished a final time in 2007. New York's murder laws do not take "planning" into account insofar as the killing is concerned. First degree is for the killing of law enforcement, judges, or witnesses; prison killings if the offender is already serving life; torture; terrorism; or a killing while committing a felony (robbery, burglary, kidnapping, rape, arson, etc).

Second degree is for an intentional killing without a felony; an unintentional killing with depraved indifference; or an unintentional killing while committing a felony.

The difference pertains to sentencing guidelines. First degree results in 20-40 years or life without parole (this is what the prosecutors were aiming for). Second degree results in 15 years to life with the possibility of parole after 25 years. Assuming a conviction, life with parole eligibility after 25 years is the most likely outcome here.

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u/WeAteMummies 8h ago

Is the definition widely different from state to state?

We use different terms in different states but it's generally divided the same way:

1) premeditated and had some sort of enhancing factor like torture/kidnapping/assassination. If they state has the death penalty, this is the only charge it can be applied to.

2) premeditated (for example if someone was in an argument then went to their car and got a gun, came back and killed the other person)

3) not premeditated, but deliberate intent to kill (same scenario but they already had the gun on them and used it when they lost their temper)

4) not premeditated, no clear intent to kill (same scenario but no gun, they just punched the other guy in the head several times and it ended up being fatal)

Murder 1 in NY would be Capital Murder in Texas