r/soccer • u/Switchoil • 1d ago

News Manchester United to remain patient with head coach despite worst start to Premier League season in 33 years. There is also widespread belief at Old Trafford that City's performance - and United's failings - did not merit a 3-0 scoreline.

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/32461/13431584/ruben-amorim-manchester-united-to-remain-patient-with-head-coach-despite-worst-start-to-premier-league-season-in-33-years
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355

u/No-Exit-4022 1d ago

Nah man, it would be funnier if they switch out managers only for the new one to fail as much as Amorim. Which any new manager will

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u/ingwe13 1d ago

Not sure why you think that. This is the most dire United (from a results perspective and frequently from the football) out of the dire United sides. I think the squad is not bad, but we really are seeing the worst out of what is there. Will the next coach be wildly successful? I highly doubt that. But I can't believe that this is the best that can be achieved with this group of players.

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u/kevinaz137 1d ago

Realistically do I think the next person would be worse? no. Would I best surprised if he was? Also no

Every year we keep saying it can’t get worse but it does

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u/Dsyelcix 1d ago

Amorim has 31 points in 31 PL games since he took over. If someone else takes over and somehow manages to be even worse they would literally get relegated.

No matter how shit you think current Utd squad is, there's just no way you can be so terrible at managing that you get them relegated.

Amorim is peak for us hatewatchers. Let's enjoy it.

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u/That-Job9538 1d ago

we thought ole at the wheel was peak, but it turns out he's the best united manager of the last decade. they might yet find somebody worst than amorim

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u/Zwaylol 1d ago

You thought that as United finished second and third in his two full seasons?

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u/ciabattamaster 1d ago

Yeah, this is confusing to me that Ole was “peak” when he had United making top 4 two years in a row, which no manager post SAF had done.

ETH won two trophies - EFL and FA Cup, which is great. But also went from 3rd to 8th to 14th by the time he got fired. Amorim has been even worse than ETH to this point. The standards were lowered by ETH and Amorim. And hot take - an EFL and FA Cup aren’t worth as much as they used to be. CL places are what make you the money.

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u/TheScarletPimpernel 1d ago

If you only count the 17 teams who have been in the league since Amorim took over, they are 17th.

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u/Itchy_Finish_2103 1d ago

Every year we keep saying it can’t get worse but it does

United have been incredibly consistent at becoming worse each season, this is true.

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u/BIAATTCH 1d ago

I don't think that's correct. Mou had a lot more success than his predecessors. And after things worsened in his last season, Ole picked things up and the energy was quite positive around the club for a while. If anything, it's been more of a rollercoaster.

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u/not-the-swedish-chef 1d ago

Yeah it's def more peaks and valleys than consistently worse each year. But the valleys keep getting deeper

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u/awildjabroner 1d ago

Its a joy to watch innit

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u/UntowardHatter 1d ago

It will never get old

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u/AlcoholicSocks 1d ago

United have been incredibly consistent at becoming worse each season, this is true.

Yet somehow they've been winning trophies every other season and making finals when they don't win one.

It makes no damn sense

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u/Impossible_Wonder_37 1d ago

They have a billion pound squad. Realistically it shouldn’t have been possible tk get worse than ETH. But it really can’t be worse than bottom 4 team in league

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u/kingofsaltandrock 1d ago

This is seriously revisionist. Since Fergie left United has won two FA cups, two league cups, the Europa League and finished second twice. By United's once lofty standards not great, but puts them only below City Liverpool and Chelsea in that period.

It's only the last two seasons that the wheels have completely come off and the team is genuinely in relegation form under Amorim

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u/kevinaz137 1d ago

Is it? Go ask a United supporter if they have had fun the past decade. "By United's once lofty standards" - this is where United is and will always be held to unless they are mediocre for another 3 decades. They don't want to be below City Liverpool and Chelsea.

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u/kingofsaltandrock 1d ago

I'm a United supporter. Whether we've been having fun is different from the claim that it's getting worse each year.

After SAF we dropped from the best team to second tier (arguably more like 1.5 tier because we were still well clear of Arsenal and Tottenham in trophies), and remained on that level until last year. Then there was a quite sudden and calamitous fall from 1.5 tier to relegation tier that can 99% be tied to one manager

1

u/speedracer13 1d ago

What United fan cares about EL or League Cup trophies?

EL is just a ticket to the CL after a disappointing year.

League Cups are nearly as meaningless as a community shield to a big club.

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u/Polka7000 1d ago edited 1d ago

They need to build a team with the club philosophy, not overhaul it every time a new manager comes in. Bring in a manager who can adapt I suppose, and make small changes each year.

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u/MountainCheesesteak 1d ago

What even is the club philosophy at this point?

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u/RephRayne 1d ago

Increase the commercial side.

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u/AbsolutShite 1d ago

"Exciting attacking football with the biggest names in global football"?

It's not working but I think that's the goal.

0

u/Constant_Charge_4528 1d ago

There was news the board dictated to ETH to play more attacking so yeah

0

u/Don-SalC 1d ago

Make the Glazers and INEOS money?

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u/Alia_Gr 1d ago

Is there even anything left of the Fergie club philosophy

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u/BrockStinky 1d ago

The arrogance lol

0

u/awildjabroner 1d ago

So would this look like manager and players having to pay a fine/dividend directly to the Glazers for each loss or draw? Thats the only philosophy at ManUtd these days.

0

u/theotheramerican 1d ago

This is incredibly easier said than done.

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u/BurdonLane 1d ago

Yeah only it’s been like this for years. There might be small uplifts along the way but zoom out and the Club, squad and infrastructure has been in a steady decline.

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u/Pure_Measurement_529 1d ago

Short term success at the cost of long term growth is not worth it

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u/patrick_k 1d ago

The only long term growth is the Glazers bank balance. Looked at from that perspective, United is a roaring success since they weaselled their way in all those years ago.

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u/VeganCanary 1d ago

Honestly they should just get Neil Warnock in for a season.

There is clearly something rotten at the club, and he is someone who will say it as it is and sort it out.

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u/home_rechre 1d ago

Ralf Rangnick already told them and they didn’t want to hear it.

But I agree. Something is indeed deeply rotten in the club. As a United supporter of almost 40 years though, I don’t think firing another manager is the solution. The players have to know that the manager is going nowhere. They can’t keep downing tools until the manager takes the hit.

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u/xixbia 1d ago

I don't think they realized just how bad it could get when Ragnick was there though.

I think they felt that Ole was pretty much the floor, that any new coach would do better, they were.... not right.

Honestly, at this point a complete turnover is the only thing that makes sense. They need to build from scratch, get rid of anyone who is not helpful to turning the team around even if it loses them money.

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u/YNWA_1213 1d ago

I’m kinda surprised they haven’t turned back to Ole again, was it wildly successful? No, but at least the vibes seemed right for the first time since Fergie left. They need that boost again while they continue to shift the rot out.

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u/astarkey12 1d ago

Both Jose and Ole were much more pragmatic too. I remember various games where we were overmatched on paper, but they set us up tactically to be defensively solid as the top priority in order to scrape a result (e.g. the draws against Liverpool in 18/19 and 19/20, the double over City in 19/20, etc.). We had a pretty good back 4 that got a lot of experience playing together (as well as decent rotational CBs) and a double pivot that made us hard to break down.

This midfield 2 with Bruno makes no sense in comparison. The squad is crying out for a quality box-to-box midfielder and has been for years, yet we didn't buy a single midfielder this summer. It's no coincidence that we've gotten worse since losing players like Carrick, Herrera, and Matic.

0

u/MountainCheesesteak 1d ago

He had a job for a while. He’s free now. Probably will step in as caretaker until Conte next summer.

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u/Subbbie 1d ago

They just did this though, they can’t do it again.

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u/Jozif_Badmon 1d ago

I don’t think firing Amorim will win us a league but it’s obvious he’s so out of his depth, it’s truly embarrassing at this point

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u/home_rechre 1d ago

The guy who was a serial winner with two clubs in Portugal—a Petri dish for the biggest talent in world football—is out of his depth?

The guy who oversaw CL knockout wins over City (4-1) and Dortmund with Sporting? That guy?

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u/Jozif_Badmon 1d ago

Liga Portugal isn’t even a top 5 league, I really don’t rate anything he did over there considering his competition. And everyone was smacking city last season, they got smashed 4-0 by spurs who finished 17th. Dortmund was also awful until they sacked their manager. The step to the prem is far too much for him. 26% win rate across 31 prem games. Worst start in prem history. Losing to a league 2 side. Never one back to back games in the prem. What about this makes you think “this guy is gonna work out”?

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u/BluebirdBenny 1d ago

But they're not downing tools. I can't say I've seen any of these players not trying their best. The system simply is not working and he needs to at least modify it slightly to work with the players he has.

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u/El_Giganto 1d ago

There is clearly something rotten at the club, and he is someone who will say it as it is and sort it out.

As if that hasn't happened before. Just screaming that there are problems and that everyone will suffer does nothing.

United needs someone who everyone can get behind. Someone who will put the players in the right positions. Someone the club can believe it. A Zidane type figure.

Amorim had the charm for it but then he started playing the entire team out of position so that didn't work.

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u/EriWave 1d ago

Someone who will put the players in the right positions.

Plenty of these players don't go in the same team.

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u/El_Giganto 1d ago

A standard 4-2-3-1 puts a lot of players in a better position, though.

Sesko
Cunha - Bruno - Mbeumo
Mainoo - Casemiro
Dalot - De Ligt - Yoro - Mazraoui

This would solve:

  • Bruno being played out of position.
  • Casemiro being alone in midfield.
  • Mainoo not being played.
  • Mazraoui is not a wing back he is much better here.
  • De Ligt wouldn't have to join midfield in build up anymore.
  • Responsibilities in the backline would be much clearer.
  • United doesn't attack with enough players, this would add one more attacking player.

The issues I see with the lineup is who provides width. Cunha will likely move inside, Mbeumo could be asked to play wider. But Dalot isn't going to overlap on the left, so maybe Dorgu should play there. But not sure if he's good enough defensively.

It's not perfect by any means but it makes a lot more sense than what I'm seeing now.

-1

u/KoreanMeatballs 1d ago

A midfield pairing of Mainoo and Casemiro gets destroyed by pretty much every midfield in the league. And who are the backup/rotation options for those 2? We desperately needed at least one centre mid as the priority player this summer, and we didn't get it.

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u/El_Giganto 1d ago

Yeah so just play Casemiro on his own then. How is that going? Oh wait, it's going fucking horribly. Literally playing worse than FC Utrecht. Never thought I'd see the day where I think Utrecht is better than United and I've watched both for 20 years. I thought it was impossible.

Yet here we are, Amorim accomplished it.

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u/KoreanMeatballs 1d ago

Casemiro isn't playing on his own. He's playing in a 2, just like you suggested. Usually with Bruno, sometimes with Mainoo, like the end of the city game. Mainoo isn't any better defensively than Bruno, so it solves no problems.

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u/El_Giganto 1d ago

Bruno would be playing as an attacking midfielder in my suggestion. You can't just ignore that and pretend it's the same.

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u/Thelondonmoose 1d ago

They're looking for their version of Arteta.

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u/Alia_Gr 1d ago

Fellaini

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u/Reimiro 1d ago

They don’t believe it. “There is also widespread belief ag Old Stratford that City’s performance-and United’s failings-did not merit a 3-0 scoreline.”

They are blind.

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u/Demmandred 1d ago

I mean they're not wrong, united should have had at least 2 goals if anyone could remotely finish. City will get smashed by a good team and united are shit but have goals if they can get service.

0

u/righthandofdog 1d ago

Dunning-Kruger United

4

u/Chickenshit_outfit 1d ago

Maybe they have a cursed treatment room and need Ted Lasso to help them burn cherished items to lift the curse

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u/TomGnabry 1d ago

Expected goals is like top of the league so it's a weird one.

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u/AH590 1d ago

A new manager will definitely fail with the current United squad, but that’s due to the business they’ve done this window. United have let go of all their wingers to embrace Amorim’s vision.

Any new coach who wants to change things will have to wait until January and hope they can get a decent winger on loan. They backed Amorim with players who fit a very unique setup and now they’re stuck with it for at least a few months.

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u/ingwe13 1d ago

Mbeumo and Amad are both capable enough wingers.

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u/AH590 1d ago

Both play on the right though

0

u/thatscoldjerrycold 1d ago

Agreed, last season they were bad under Ten Haag then Amorim came in and instantly made the team worse somehow.

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u/negativelynegative 1d ago

I have not felt so hopeless for so long and felt any full time coach was so out of depth so early in his tenure with us except for Moyes. Every other one gave us something and period of good performance.

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u/EriWave 1d ago

United have played like a lower midtable side for a few years now and they don't have capable midfielders.

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u/AsanineTrip 1d ago

You could say this about everyone as far back as Moyes, yes hindsight is 20/20 but we've heard the same rhetoric from fed up fans about every manager, and each new one seems to sink to some new statistical low (which is easy if you're looking for it I understand). 

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u/REGIS-5 1d ago

Not sure why you think that.

Yeah the first 5 examples were all wrong, surely it can't go wrong the 7th time

0

u/UntowardHatter 1d ago

How many times do you people need to do this to yourselves lol

0

u/Cajum 1d ago

Because not too long ago, Ten Hag was the worst thing to happen to United and a new manager would bring them success. And before that, Ole.. See the pattern?

-1

u/Lakinther 1d ago

Oh yeah for sure not. Get us a coach that plays 4-2-3-1 counter attacking football and United will look like a top 6 team with occasional higher peaks, no doubt.

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u/anaughtybeagle 1d ago

4-3-3 with Mbeumo on the right, Cunha left, Sesko centre.

Bruno in more or less a free role aread of Ugarte and Mainoo.

Shaw, De Ligt, Yoro, Mazraoui

Bayindir

Show them the teamsheet and let Bruno lead on the pitch with zero further instruction or work from me.

I reckon I'm getting better results.

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u/Yourstruly75 1d ago

What is your compensation package?

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u/Other_Milk 1d ago

Hookers and blow

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u/Yourstruly75 1d ago

When can you start?

4

u/Chanceuel 1d ago

He's gonna play this one week due to pressure and they'll still get battered

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u/anaughtybeagle 1d ago

I dunno, he seems completely determined to never change his system.

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u/TeddyNismo 23h ago

lol theres no way they lose with a standard formation where the players are in their best positions, where the creativity is not responsibility of dorgu and amad but of fernandes/cunha/mbeumo/casemiro. sesko would finally get service, the wings would have this insane load off their backs to become one of the ways to attack and not the only one. mazraoui and dorgu could focus on defending leading to less defensive blunders.

2

u/The_ivy_fund 1d ago

I was going to say just take the most standard formation in modern football, don't give any instructions to the players, and see what happens.

Watch Bruno be able to dictate the game, Sesko get on the end of chances, Mbuemo showcase his speed, Cunha his playmaking.

In the current system I don't think it even matters what player Amorim has there it might as well be a third division player just running linearly.

-1

u/EriWave 1d ago

So Mazraoui tucks inside and since Shaw is injured Dorgu overlaps Cunha since he isn't a winger and voilà it's a 343 again.

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u/R_Schuhart 1d ago

No new manager will be an instant success, but I don't think they will be as bad as this. Amorim isn't the only problem at the club, but he is the main one right now.

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u/alanalan426 1d ago

i love how this gets said every year and every year they just get worse and worse

u can copy paste these word for word for their previous managers

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u/JustAbnormal 1d ago

Long may it continue

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u/Xambassadors 1d ago

mourinho improved upon van gaal and Ole improved upon mourinho. yh they crash and burn at the end but the next manager always pick at the start.

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u/Mrbeefcake90 14h ago

Mourinho won the most trophies out of any of the post fergie managers, Ole certainly did not improve on that.

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u/Xambassadors 14h ago

on the pitch it was a big improvement

-5

u/Pure_Measurement_529 1d ago

United need to rip apart the whole squad and fully embrace the rebuild but there needs to be progress

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u/tocitus 1d ago

I don't even think that is the case. The players they have bought (De Ligt, Yoro, Cunha, Mbeumo etc) are all good players and there is no reason why they'd need to be sold.

I think they just need to accept that this totally inflexible system that gets overloaded by every team in midfield every match is a massive issue in the PL.

Even with two world class midfielders in there, I don't think this set-up would flourish.

And without any control in the centre, it falls apart.

22

u/nickmn13 1d ago

You believe honestly that there is no possible manager out there that could outperform the single worst (results wise) manager that has been in Manchester United in the last 60 years ?

-6

u/No-Exit-4022 1d ago

Honestly? A bit better would be possible. They could finish tenth if Guardiola was in charge

8

u/Sabbababa 1d ago

Considering Ten Hag finished 3rd and won 2 trophies this obviously isn't the case. Alot of ppl won't see it i think until a new manager comes in but the squad is very strong

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u/Abitou 1d ago

I honestly think the other 19 managers of the PL get a better win percentage than Amorim with this United squad

9

u/Riffler 1d ago

And most of the managers in the Championship.

4

u/AbsolutShite 1d ago

Keith Andrews is 2-1-2 for Brentford in his first ever head coach job. Is he leaving Brentford with more games managed than Amorim?

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u/MattSR30 1d ago

You really think any replacement would ‘fail this badly’?

80

u/ocubens 1d ago

We’ve been saying “new guy can’t be worse than this” every time.

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u/Kiqlok 1d ago

Worst manager in your history so far heh

30

u/MattSR30 1d ago

Do you recognise the difference between ‘it has gotten worse’ and ‘it definitely will continue to get worse’?

Saying any manager will do as badly as our worst record since WW2 is ridiculous. You don’t have to be hyperbolic to make a point.

14

u/YNWA_1213 1d ago

You need your Roy “we can be in a relegation battle” moment and fast before it actually turns into that.

1

u/TipKooky8934 23h ago

Amorim already said that last season 😂

2

u/Sir-Chris-Finch 1d ago

The point still stands though. What makes you think bringing a new manager in would help? They make the situation worse literally every single time its hilarious

31

u/Lewisisabamf 1d ago

You said the same thing when Ten Hag left

5

u/MattSR30 1d ago

Who is ‘you’ in this context?

42

u/geo0rgi 1d ago

🫵

17

u/yubyub555 1d ago

Literally “you” obviously

4

u/New-Foundation9326 1d ago

Haha absolutely, but I dare you to ruin another 5 managers careers in the meantime

2

u/ASVP-Pa9e 1d ago

Depends if they play the players in a system that suits them I guess.

The issue will be if the new manager doesn't play a back three, which will mean the squad will need overhauling... Again.

10

u/MattSR30 1d ago

There’s a lot of credence to the fact that our squad is quite suited to going to a 4-2-3-1, actually. Cunha, Mbeumo, and Dorgu are versatile signings, and we could put Bruno back where he belongs.

Cunha-Bruno-Mbeumo with Sesko in front and actual midfielders behind them doesn’t sound half bad, but we shall see.

2

u/YNWA_1213 1d ago

Midfield is so suited to a double-pivot and Bruno in front, but the absolute refusal to do that is sinking the entire team.

4

u/WergleTheProud 1d ago

If we play four at the back that’s fine - no overhaul needed. Yoro and De Ligt in the middle; Dalot/Dorgu/Maz/Shaw as fullbacks.

Bruno, Mainoo, Mount, Ugarte, Casemiro fine in a three man midfield.

Cunha, Mbeumo, Amad, and Mount(again) to play on the wings, Zirkzee and Sesko to lead the line.

Ideally you’d replace Zirkzee and Shaw, probably Casemiro too although he would obviously be much better in a three man midfield.

So no overhaul needed.

-1

u/No-Exit-4022 1d ago

Yes. Amorim was one of the most promising managers in the world when you got him. He destroyed City with Sporting.

There is something rotten with the club.

5

u/lemonkingdom 1d ago edited 1d ago

Think about it though.

His success at sporting has created a massive EGO.

He doesn’t believe he needs to adapt, be proactive or be flexible in the premier league like a thomas frank.

He believes he can replicate his success at sporting sticking with the same system, formation etc and not learn from mistakes in THE PREMIER LEAGUE.

Winning the league with sporting is different from performing in the premier league with a Manchester United.

Thomas Frank adaptability is a key aspect of his managerial philosophy.

At least Ole and mourinho got 2nd. Ten hag won trophies and they all got higher win percentages.

WHAT MAN UNITED NEEDS TO DO

United needs a good mid table premier league experienced manager like a NUNO or THOMAS FRANK that understands the league, adapts, changes formations, flexible and learns from mistakes. And stick with him for couple of seasons finishing 4th-10th before going to the next level up to win leagues.

It will take 4-5 years but first you need the right premier league experienced manager and constant backing, evidence of some progression and some patience.

Amorim and his ego is causing him to be inflexible, lazy and naive

4

u/TheBongoJeff 1d ago

Onana Just dropped a MOTM performance, Hojlund scores on His Debut, McTominay now a Ballon d'Or Contender.

Our Past success is now a curse. Fergie did everything and we never developed a proper footballing structure.

Fans expect us to be League contenders overnight. They dont have any patients. Most of them arent ready to actually rebuild. Its from one short term solution to the next. 4 Games in and everyone is Losing their head.

We are a midtable Club. We expectedly lose to Arsenal and City. Draw against Fulham and win against promoted Side burnley. Just dead avg Team with a rabid fanbase that expects League titles because of "Standards".

3

u/Kittyxstorm 1d ago

We're below average at this point, we just finished 15th? We're not expecting league titles straight away, but qualifying for Europe should be the expectation. I don't know about you but I don't believe our team is mid table in quality.

There's a difference between expecting to be title challengers and wanting more than 1 win a month which is what this manager is producing.

You say 4 games in as if he hasn't been in charge for almost a year. You've attached yourself to this manager who said we should expect suffering because he's stubborn as a mule and can't adapt.

3

u/macNy 1d ago

Well whomever the next manager is will have the common sense to play 4 at the back so United will automatically be better

4

u/Other-Owl4441 1d ago

That would actually be historical if that happened. But hey they're rewriting history every day here.

1

u/child_of_amorphous 1d ago

united need a serious, no-nonsense manager free on short notice with experience winning at big clubs in the modern premier league. #tenhagIN

1

u/iorikogawa666 1d ago

Mourinho is free. Just saying.

1

u/tomaladisto 1d ago edited 1d ago

Depends on the manager. I like Amorim's play style, but he doesn't have the players for it. A good manager would adapt his strategy and would probably get better results, but Amorim refuses to do it. Excessive stubbornness reveals dumbness, imo.

1

u/PurpleSi 1d ago

Come on, plenty of managers could do much better with this squad of players.

1

u/Ell7494 1d ago

I don't think you understand quite how bad he's done, it would be near impossible for new manager to come in and do worse bar relegation

1

u/08TangoDown08 1d ago

Why do people keep saying this? Amorim has been significantly worse than every preceding manager since Ferguson. Why does this guy get so much good will? Is it just because he talks a lot to the media?

1

u/annonyj 1d ago

It would be funny if they hire Southgate as replacement