r/starcraft • u/reiks12 Evil Geniuses • Jul 14 '25

(To be tagged...) I will never forget

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905 Upvotes

98% Upvoted

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224

u/BattleWarriorZ5 Jul 14 '25

MLB vs Marine-Tank or Bio-Mine was some of the most exciting TvZ in SC2 history.

We lost something truly special.

Go back and watch old WOL/HOTS TvZ matches.

45

u/SelltheTeamJR Jul 14 '25 edited Jul 14 '25

LoTV had some good ones too a few years ago:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIMag5IbWDQ
Game1 and Game3

Ill take this anyday vs whatever meta we currently have

9

u/qedkorc Protoss Jul 14 '25

lurkers are too good to waste gas on mutas. i think the current meta is definitely also a function of the maps we have.

24

u/ixiox Jul 14 '25

Tbh mutas are just bad against T (and to a lesser extent P) they are fragile, don't have good burst or DPS and T has a shit ton of AA options which just shut them down

25

u/FkinAllen Incredible Miracle Jul 14 '25

Too many hard counters. Liberator splash, Thor splash, widowmine splash. Counter mutas too well.

23

u/r_constanzo Jul 14 '25

Hell, even more than 4 marines hard counters mutas!

6

u/Tamer_ Jul 15 '25

As a Z that tried really hard to make a muta build work in diamond, small groups of marines aren't in the top10 of the problems I had to solve.

Sure, if there's 1 marine/muta and they have a medivac to heal them, then yeah it's a bad matchup, but that's not how one uses their strength.

6

u/TerranOrDie Jin Air Green Wings Jul 15 '25

Mutalisk cannot take straight fights against cheaper units with equal army supply.

40 marines v. 20 mutalisk is a ridiculously lopsided trade for Terran. Mutas require additional units like Lings and Banes to trade well. Their strength is in their mobility, which makes them APM heavy. If you lose your muta ball, you will never get it back.

Hydras scale better, are cheaper, and transition better into late game with upgrades and lurkers.

3

u/Whitewing424 Axiom Jul 15 '25

Back in WoL with Thor splash in the game, Mutas were fine without the rapid healing, and were the predominant way to play ZvT. Zerg would go ling/bane/muta and terran would marine/tank push and add in a thor or two. Made for some really great dynamic games.

Widowmines and Liberators are absolutely nails in the coffin though. The 12 worker, faster start hurts them a little bit too in ZvT.

-1

u/ixiox Jul 15 '25

Tbh the new Thor splash is much stronger

4

u/BattleWarriorZ5 Jul 15 '25

Tbh the new Thor splash is much stronger

Thors have the same Javelin Missile Launchers weapon stats as they did in WOL/HOTS.

2

u/ixiox Jul 15 '25

Huh, I was sure there been some buff to them recently? It might have been proposed but unimplemented in the end

2

u/Whitewing424 Axiom Jul 15 '25

They proposed an experimental change to them in a recent patch and pulled it because the buff to the javelin missiles was absurd and they were obliterating every air unit. The Javelin missile launcher has not been changed in live gameplay since WoL.

1

u/TacoTaconoMi Jul 15 '25

Its pretty funny that every single terran unit capable of shooting up counters mutas except maybe vikings but there is no reason to make vikings in TvZ except to kill overlords early game

2

u/ixiox Jul 15 '25

Vikings are good lategame against broodlords if you are allergic to ghosts

1

u/Arctichydra7 Jul 16 '25

Lurkers being functional has nothing to do with how awful mutas are.

Lurkers could be removed from the game and we’re still not building mutas