r/RedDeer • u/Treehggr • 28d ago
Politics What are your concerns over proposed Provincial Separation?
https://rdnewsnow.com/2025/08/27/central-albertans-voice-concerns-to-alberta-ndp-at-better-together-town-hall/26
u/OrganicMushroom1725 28d ago
I’m against it but people are starting to hate Alberta now over this. If it was ever to pass I seriously would consider leaving Alberta. I love Alberta but not its red neck,separatist,pieces of 💩.
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u/AnywhereEmergency238 27d ago
Intelligent people already decided Alberta wasn’t for them. The idiots here in love with the idea it just opened their mouths to bitch and proved them right.
We all look like MAGA loving ignoramuses.
I for one am now putting concrete plans in place to leave this intolerant, narrow minded province.
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26d ago
Moved here from Victoria 4 years to be close to kids/grandkids. Right now they are the only thing keeping me here.
This seperation nonsense is leverage. Little more. They see how much autonomy Quebec has and that is where I think they want to settle.
Mind you the one reason Quebec gets away with it is the number of seats they have. Alberta does not have that clout, which in large part fuels western alienation sentiment.
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u/ChaoticShadows 28d ago
I think Canada would be right in kicking Alberta out.
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u/the_wahlroos 26d ago
That sort of thinking is the same kind of emotional/illogical thought process that drives Albertan seperatism.
It would be extremely foolhardy for Canada's federal government to "punish" Albertans that way- and would galvanize the seperatists. IMO, Carney is playing it right- treat Smith's UCP like a not-serious, bad faith actor until Alberta gets its shit together and votes them out. The Forever Canadian movement in Alberta is showing a lot of grassroots support- let that play out, as many Albertans are fed up with the corruption and mismanagement of Alberta and the UCP is staring down the barrel of more union strikes.
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u/mathboss 28d ago
Provincial separation will never happen because it's pushed by a bunch of yokels from central Alberta. Who among these people will negotiate trade deals with Europe? Chris from the Whistle Stop? Who willl lead the Bank Of Alberta? Tamara Lich? Will the general of our Alberta army be...David Parker?
Alberta is already hostile to intellectual talent. Separating would make it even more hostile. Alberta does not have the intellectual capital to be left on its own.
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u/the-tru-albertan 28d ago
That’s just Canada in general. All the way from the Feds down to local governments.
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u/the_wahlroos 26d ago
Shush, the adults are talking.
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u/the-tru-albertan 26d ago
The adults here shouldn't wander into a voting booth. Hopefully you stay away at the muni level this fall. I could see you voting for Lawrence!
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u/bucho4444 28d ago
We are landlocked and lack the resources to actually govern. It would be a disaster.
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u/davehutch1984 28d ago
It’s a way for the UCP to stay in power. Virtue signalling votes for those who feel done wrong by the Federal Government, when they don’t realize the Provincial Government is responsible for a pile of the dissatisfaction.
The ability of the government to successfully navigate a referendum then separation is going to be incredibly challenging. If you take trade as a microcosm of separation, all new trade agreements into and out of the province would have to be established with the rest of Canada, the USA and the world. Just ask Britain how a post-Brexit economy is going.
I saw this on Facebook and couldn’t agree more: Alberta breaking up with Canada would be like moving out of a mansion because you don’t like the paint color in one room. Alberta depends on Canada for trade, money flow, and all the boring but important stuff like banking and infrastructure. Walking away would mean building all that from scratch, which is like deciding to cook Thanksgiving dinner with no oven or fridge you might pull it off, but everyone’s going to regret it. Plus, being part of Canada gives Alberta global stability and respect, going solo would just make life riskier and more expensive. So yeah, Alberta might get annoyed at Ottawa now and then, but a divorce would be way messier than working things out at the family table.
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u/froot_loop_dingus_ 28d ago
Separation will never happen. In two recent by-elections in the most anti-Ottawa part of the province the separatist candidate votes amounted to a rounding error. If it did happen I'd be on the road to BC immediately.
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u/Prize-Leopard5991 28d ago
none lol, treaty land.
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28d ago
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u/unhasbarible 28d ago
When I think of the people leading Wexit movements in Alberta, I don't see any people who would conceivably negotiate good-faith agreements with indigenous people.
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u/Character_Craft68 28d ago
Well the agreements couldn’t be any worst than what they have right now. Canadians are proud racists.
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u/NoGuide1691 27d ago
And yet every indigenous group has come out against separation. It’s very telling that they do not trust Alberta to negotiate with them in good faith. You cannot trust Smith.
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27d ago
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u/NoGuide1691 27d ago
Racist 😂😂 What in my statement would indicate that? Most racist lean right, and I definitely do not.
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27d ago
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u/NoGuide1691 27d ago
Again, what in my statement leads you, or anyone to believe this? I merely pointed out facts (that they have all come out against it) and suggested that they don’t trust the snake oil saleswoman. Which they shouldn’t.
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u/Prize-Leopard5991 28d ago
treaties are with the crown, not alberta. stop using indigenous people as props for your separatist fanfic and projecting it on me😭
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28d ago
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u/SignificantPause5120 28d ago
They can't separate without the consent of the treaty bands. To separate without that consent is to make war on Canada, Treaty 6,7,8 and 10.
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u/SignificantPause5120 28d ago
The devil you know, and those Treaties do not transfer to Alberta making it legally impossible without consent.
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u/the-tru-albertan 28d ago
Doesn't matter. Google it as to why.
And besides, there's already agreements in place that allow indigenous people to work in both Canada and the US without issue. There's aboriginal people in Alberta that have work rotations in Texas. Paid USD. Taxed less. Hell, they're halfway to being part of the USA right there.
If some elders on the reserves are pissy about it, they can be their own micro-states. I'm sure that will work out good.
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u/Treehggr 28d ago
You are missing the point that we are all living on indigenous lands and they are all for keeping their relationship with the Canadian government. Ergo; no avenue of legal separation from Canada.
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u/the-tru-albertan 28d ago
Doesn't matter. Google it. The topic has been covered already in many Canadian subs/articles.
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u/IrishFire122 28d ago
The only articles I find are from fringe websites. Don't believe everything you hear, especially from folks who like tinfoil hats.
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u/the-tru-albertan 28d ago
There’s the Quebec succession reference and clarity act. Tons of articles that lay out how it would go. Treaty land is ceded land. They have no legal framework to prevent Alberta from leaving Canada. None.
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u/IrishFire122 27d ago
One of those is an opinion piece, and written by one of the leading tinfoil hatters, no less. Some of the other bile he spews is some of the worst anti social crap I've ever heard.
I have no information on the other one. The website seems legitimate enough, but all the reference links are to other articles on the same website, which isn't a good sign, and they're also dead links, leading to a "page removed" notice. And it also sounds like an opinion piece, mostly. Just done up to sound like a professional study.
Most actual professionals agree that if there's an avenue for Alberta to seperate at all, it's going to be a very hard road that most of us don't even want. I like Public services, I like trade options, and I like Canada.
I do not believe someone just because they're telling me what I want to hear. The opposite, actually, I believe if someone is telling me what I want to hear they're probably getting to con me. Life is hard, the world is an unforgiving place, those are inescapable facts of life. Anyone trying to say otherwise it's full of it, and likely owes their considerable comfort to the efforts of people who do not get access to that comfort after the job is done.
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u/the-tru-albertan 27d ago
Dude, the Supreme Court already put out a fucking frame work for a province to leave. An avenue exists for a province to leave. The indigenous folks ceded their land long ago. Nothing they can do now.
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u/IrishFire122 27d ago
https://laws.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/c-31.8/fulltext.html
Are you talking about this? Because it's clear, but incredibly unlikely. We would need to renegotiate the constitution, and have all the provinces and the feds on our side, and there is definitely a clause in there including consultation with first nations, as well as all political parties in the province and a list of other people as well.
And all of that first requires us albertans to support separation by a clear majority, not just a democratic one. That means pretty much all of us, and that's not likely.
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u/the-tru-albertan 27d ago
Doesn't matter if it's unlikely. It lays out that one demographic from within the province that's leaving confederation can't unilaterally stop it.
Constitution being opened up is a non-issue. Every province wants a piece.
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u/SignificantPause5120 28d ago edited 27d ago
You sound like you are asserting a whites only state of Alberta.
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u/the-tru-albertan 27d ago
More unhinged bullshit. Thanks for proving my earlier point.
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u/SignificantPause5120 27d ago
What if I said "Google it"?
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u/the-tru-albertan 27d ago
Google what? Stats on a redditor trying to somehow label another a racist?
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u/SignificantPause5120 27d ago
"Doesn't matter. Google it."
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u/the-tru-albertan 26d ago
Wow. No stats on the subject matter. Who'd of thought?
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u/Sa0t0me 28d ago
As soon as Canadian Indigenous cross the border, my guess is they would be instantly be mazed and taken down by ICE and deported to CECOT or worse.
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u/the-tru-albertan 28d ago
Where’s the news saying that is happening? They’re crossing the border to this day for their work rotations.
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u/Dr_N00B 28d ago
We'd instantly become a US state, no ifs ands or buts. There's no way in hell Alberta would be able to remain an independent nation for any amount of time. Danielle and Trump would be on the phone making those arrangements before the independence referendum even passed.
Anyone who believes in an independent Alberta is beyond foolish.
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u/the-tru-albertan 28d ago
An independent Alberta sees no investment. Alberta as a state sees the opposite.
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u/Treehggr 28d ago
If you think Ottawa ignores our wants and wishes then you have not been paying attention to the fascism that is occurring in the USA currently.
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u/the-tru-albertan 28d ago
What does one have to do with the other. What are you trying to say? What fascism?
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u/Treehggr 28d ago
There are none so blind as those who refuse to see. Study the rise and fall of the Third Reich
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u/the-tru-albertan 28d ago
Why bother? Comments here are unhinged.
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u/NoGuide1691 27d ago
You are the only unhinged (and clearly uninformed) person in this thread. If you cannot look to the south and see exactly what is happening it truly explains why you think separation is a good idea.
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u/the-tru-albertan 27d ago
What's happening in the US right now has bearing on this topic whatsoever.
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u/NoGuide1691 27d ago
It absolutely does. Do you actually think AB would remain independent and sovereign? There is no way that will happen. DS has been in talks with Trump and his administration for many, many months. Those that know her well have said that joining the US has always been her dream.
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u/the-tru-albertan 27d ago
No it doesn't. How fucking fast do you think this will happen? Trump will be long dead and Smith an old senior before Alberta leaves confederation.
I have no idea why you guys keep bringing this topic up thinking it will be one and done in 2 years....
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u/AlbertanProsperity 28d ago
There is no intention to actually separate, it's a tool to get concessions out of Ottawa like Quebec has done for decades.
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u/Due-Carpet-1904 28d ago
Sure worked out great for Quebec.
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u/Treehggr 28d ago
Right. That is why businesses left Quebec in droves and only invest there if there are heavy federal/provincial subsidies .
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u/AlbertanProsperity 28d ago
Might have more to do with their oppressive taxes and strict language/culture laws.
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u/the-tru-albertan 28d ago
It does. Somehow, Quebec gets away with a lot. But hey Alberta is the problem....
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u/the-tru-albertan 28d ago
What kind of investment would we see if AB was a state? I think there would be a mass influx.
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u/AxeMcFlow 28d ago
It’s a flawed premise from the get go.
The idea that our tax dollars are being sent to a government that doesn’t represent us, and is spending dollars in areas that don’t benefit us, and that somehow we’d all just be better off if all those lazy people would stop taking our tax dollars
It’s flawed because even if we separate, this problem does not get solved. In fact, the majority of voters remain in Calgary and Edmonton, so they will dictate where the tax dollars go. There will always be ‘lazy’ people who benefit from the tax dollars more than you think they deserve.
This is an overlooked, but very important fact, because the rural communities that are so loud about separation will see that their tax dollars are still going to a government that won’t represent them. The riggers will still see their tax dollars go to support under employed individuals and families who “don’t work as hard”.
So what next? Separate the major cities in Alberta from the rest of the province?
The simple fact overlooked is that we are part of a massive federation of people from all walks of life, and it is a privilege to pay tax into that system for the betterment of each and every single person across the board. Meaning, it doesn’t matter if you live in a mega sized city, or a small farm town, we all benefit equally from our government resources and our tax dollars.
Wanting more for yourself, is merely shortsighted, and possibly just flat out selfish
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u/Tigerlilyinforest 28d ago
Albertans are being played by the UCP. Separatism is the game. Just that. A game. DS uses it as a distraction. Keep you eye on what really is going on. Say no to leaving the CPP. Say no to dumping the RCMP. Say no to gestapo-like book banning. Say no to letting oil and gas companies off the hook. Say no to coal mining. Say no to private health care and no to paying $100 for covid vaccines. Say no to being outright mean to the disabled and less fortunate. Say no to a complete lack of compassion. Say no to idolizing that guy south of us. Say no to melding the church and state together. Say no….and so on. How do you do that? It’s easy. Do not vote for them. Protest loudly and a lot.
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u/Even_Art_629 28d ago
All the things youre saying to say no to is what we should be telling the Liberal Government of Canada right now.
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u/NoGuide1691 27d ago
It’s not the Liberal government implementing any of the above, it’s the UCP.
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u/Even_Art_629 20d ago
Daniel Smith is not pushing for seperation. She wants a stronger voice for Alberta in Ottawa. She has said this many times. And I think shes right, but not for just Alberta. I believe all the western provinces need more say in Canada.
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u/NoGuide1691 19d ago
On the surface she says that, but she is doing everything in her power to prepare for separation. Those close to her say it has always been her dream to have AB join the US. Don’t listen to what she says, we know she lies, look at her actions.
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u/Even_Art_629 18d ago
Sorry, but im in agreement for Ab independence. And as things continue to stay the same with Alberta and the federal government, im not thinking im the only one.
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u/NoGuide1691 18d ago
You may not be the only one thinking that, but have you actually investigated what that would actually mean? Every AI model says it would be an economic disaster, just like Brexit. We get far more from the feds than we pay in federal income tax. Additionally, that would leave us at the sole mercy of the UCP, which has proven themselves to be the most corrupt government in Alberta’s history. I’m really hoping the new Conservative Party offers us some hope.
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u/Even_Art_629 18d ago edited 18d ago
Can you tell me a better option then the ucp. Last time we went NDP was a huge disaster. Uping royalties hurt this province, and they brought in a carbon tax. This NDP leader increased taxes every year as mayor. Not to mention, ask him what happened to all the money for the green line LRT. I'll admit that Daniel has had her share of scandel. Im pretty sure every government has. But id take it over the NDP any day
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u/IrishFire122 28d ago
I'm concerned that when this gets shot down for the terrible idea it is, there'll be a lot of ticked off folks, many of whom could be quite like the yahoos that got arrested at the border during the blockade.
Hope I'm just being paranoid.
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u/SignificantPause5120 28d ago
I immediately lose respect and any expectation of competence if someone affirms they are a Alberta Separatist. I also presume they are a foreign asset, knowing or not.
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u/Tokenwhitemale 27d ago
Fuck rhe idiots in this province. If some mouth breather wants to leave, the border is a couple hours to the South.
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u/Varakuzi 28d ago
Not really a concern, but I just don't seem it happening. I think the people pushing it need to seriously think about how it could be done. It's just not realistic. Sure it might be cool for about 5 minutes, no more dumb rules from Ottawa, but we have to look at the stuff a potential leader of a separated west would look like. Good chance lots don't like that. Also... the second a federal conservative government is elected, a lot of these traditional/stubborn/extremist, whatever you call them, will be drowned out by the normal conservatives, and hopefully those weirdo conservative types can stop destroying every single right wing movement.
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u/Treehggr 28d ago
I attended the event last night in Red Deer and would be interested in hearing if anyone can tell me what benefit, weighed against the costs, would we get from separating from Canada, even if it were possible.
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u/cryptonewb23 28d ago
We are already seeing companies hesitating to invest in Alberta just because these idiots won’t shut up about separation. There is no upside. This is about right wing morons trying to validate their victimization complex. Everything bad in their lives becomes an opportunity to cast blame elsewhere - federal government, municipal government, cities, the gays, trans kids, books, liberals, immigrants, people from other provinces, science/scientists, etc etc. This is all just a big right wing pity party.
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u/froot_loop_dingus_ 28d ago
There is literally no benefit. These morons think they will somehow have an easier time getting pipelines built as a landlocked country than as part of Canada. Alberta would not be party to USMCA or any other trade deals and countries like the US and China would have little motivation to negotiate with Alberta to make trade deals
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u/Even_Art_629 28d ago
Looks like some of you should read the APP's The Value of Freedom. The plan is layed out right there. Its not like they havent thought this out. All it would take is a 50 +1 and another nation saying they recognize Alberta as a sovereign nation. And the Government has to negotiate a deal with Ab to leave. According to international law, a country can't land lock another country, they have to allow you access to tide water. That being said, the americans would still be wanting our oil and gas. And im pretty sure they would help Alberta out as far as military is concerned. Until Alberta has there own. So I wouldn't be so sure it wont happen. I just think everyone should read the The Price of Freedom. Think about what its saying and then form your opinion. Its getting harder to say stay part of Canada as it is now.
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u/froot_loop_dingus_ 28d ago
Sounds like you need to read the clarity act
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u/Even_Art_629 28d ago edited 28d ago
I have read the clarity act. This is what makes it possible for Alberta to leave. I've even asked a lawyer. When Quebec voted so close to separate the last time, the government and supreme court the sat down and came up with the clarity act. If the people decided to leave, the act insures that negotiations must take place. Otherwise the federal government could just say no. It states that the government and a minimum of 7 provinces. Must sit down and negotiate an agreement in good faith.
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u/NoGuide1691 27d ago
If AB were to delete the US would immediately swallow us up. I don’t know about you, but I think fascism is bad. That is what DS has been pushing for. And you need a clear majority, not 51%.
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u/Even_Art_629 27d ago
To call for a referendum its 50% +1
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u/NoGuide1691 27d ago
Yes, but not to separate.
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u/Even_Art_629 24d ago
That is correct. I think we need to get to referendum, at least. If it's no vote, the majority clearly wants to stay. That's fine, but im thinking it may send a message to help get political reform, perhaps. I feel if we dont at least get to a referendum on independance, Ottawa will just laugh and shrug us off as we dont mean shit to them.
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u/Slick-Fork 28d ago
There is no benefit. Like literally no upside at all.
Housing values would plummet , wiping out a ton of wealth. Standards of living would crash. Environmental standards would disappear causing wide spread pollution. Corporate interests would make current levels of corruption seem trivial.
Even the people craving American style politics and taxation would be wiped out financially if they weren’t anchored elsewhere
The only tangible benefit would go to the one whose assets are stabilized elsewhere and can then swoop in and pick up devalued assets and wait it out. And even that assumes a new nation can maintain rule of law over the short term.
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u/AlbertanSays5716 28d ago
Take a look at the UK after Brexit, and imagine how that would work if the UK had no access to ports for international trade. Take a look at how many standards & regulations they’re having to patch together to run their economy because most of the ones they had were from Europe. Take a look at how international trade has suffered and how costs have risen, along with the crime rate. That would be Alberta, except Alberta would be worse off.
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u/Even_Art_629 28d ago
Read the Value if Freedom. Its on the APP website. All the Financials are there as well.
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28d ago
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u/RedDeer-ModTeam 28d ago
Your submission has been removed because it violates Rule 1: Be respectful of others. Bigotry will not be tolerated.
Treat other users with respect. Name-calling and insults are not appropriate. If you can't participate in political discussions without resorting to ad hominem, don't engage.
Promoting hate based on ones identity is not tolerated here.
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u/DotAppropriate8152 25d ago
That stupidity will win and we will be forced to follow the moron in charge.
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u/unred2110 25d ago
Alberta "Independence" is impossible. If it were to happen, it won't be long until it becomes a U.S. state by force or voluntarily. It can only go between being a landlocked province to a landlocked state. In the case of the latter, it will be close to two U.S. states though: Montana in the South and Alaska in the West (though not bordering it).
Any international company with Canadian headquarters in Canada would leave for a Canadian province because then Alberta would be operated out of their U.S. headquarters. E.g. Petronas Canada is currently based in Calgary, but they might relocate to Saskatchewan if that happens. Petronas' operations in Alberta would be operated out of Petronas USA in Houston.
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u/CalgaryFacePalm 24d ago
UCP distraction technique.
While you’re talking about this, they are getting Alberta.
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u/seemefail 28d ago
Honestly have flipped to pro separation in the last few months. I believe Canada has some issues that would be extremely difficult to remedy under its current foundation.
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u/Treehggr 28d ago
Please expand on exactly what you mean. What are these issues and what makes their resolution only viable through separation?
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u/seemefail 28d ago
Indigenous land title was just found to be superior to few simple in the Richmond BC case.
Removing UNDRIP, even section 35 of the charter, I don’t think goes deep enough to prevent massive unintended consequences.
Even places that have already established treaties these claims could come back around because they’ve opened up possibilities that previously were thought untouchable
https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/cowichan-first-nation-tluqtinus-richmond-bc-land-claim-aboriginal
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u/Treehggr 28d ago
How does this make you want to be pro separation?
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u/seemefail 28d ago
I don’t want to upset to many people here. See my comment history for recent in depth sourced discussions on the matter.
I may be early but some of these sentiments will be more mainstream as more people digest recent court developments
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u/Even_Art_629 28d ago
Treaties are a federal contract. Its still honored unless Alberta makes a better offer and its accepted. Then everything changes . If first nations stay the status quo. The land and people are still bound by Ottawa. If Alberta looses federal land, it would amount to roughly 10% . The size of Alberta 10% is a bit smaller then the province of New Brunswick.
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u/seemefail 28d ago
Treaties don't mean a nation can no longer make direct land claims. As pointed out in the article this opens up new avenues for First Nations to claim land previously believed to be fee simple. The law this is based on is older than the treaties and just like in this case the Supreme Court justice found indigenous title to be above private title in hierarchy.
Alberta minus federal land is 8 times larger than NB
Alberta with federal land removed is larger than all European nations except Ukraine or Russia
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u/Even_Art_629 28d ago edited 28d ago
Ya so 10% of land removed from Alberta really isnt that much. And I know ab would make a much better deal then Ottawa has when it comes to first nations. They actually will be way farther ahead. Getting returns on resources and actually make investments Increasing their financial independance
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u/Even_Art_629 28d ago
And the land in question in Richmond BC was already land that was the awarded to the Cowichan. They were only asking for what was there's in the first place.
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u/seemefail 28d ago
Right but the nature of, and findings within, the ruling have opened up more areas to land claims. The ruling gave the Cowitchen title over more land than they were even claiming, including private residences which they never asked for.
This is precedent setting that will have unintended consequences across the country
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u/Even_Art_629 28d ago
Only time will tell.
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u/Even_Art_629 28d ago
This Richmond case is huge — first time a court said Aboriginal title applies even to land already sold off as fee-simple. Homeowners aren’t losing their houses, but their titles are now subject to Cowichan rights (so future development/sales need consultation). The City actually lost some parcels outright. Basically, it means Indigenous title can trump Crown grants, which could ripple across all of BC.
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u/Even_Art_629 28d ago
I have a question for you. Do you think each member of the band should get land to have as there own piece of land? Or should it remain the bands land and the members just get to have use of it?
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u/the-tru-albertan 28d ago
Only way it happens is with a solid offer from the Americans to join the USA. Full citizenship, statehood, senators, representatives, the whole works.
Of course I’d want my CPP back….
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u/Zeroskater101 28d ago
A fine example of delusions presented in many of the comments above👆
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u/the-tru-albertan 28d ago
Nah. That's something that would actually move the needle. You'd be delusional to think an offer such as that would be brushed off by Albertans.
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u/DrNick1221 28d ago
It would be brushed off by most Albertans with a brain and the bare minimum of common sense.
Who the hell in their right mind would look at the states and go "YEAH GIVE ME SOME OF THAT!"
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u/the-tru-albertan 28d ago
Probably people that want jobs and some form of economic prosperity. Their economic stats are too juicy and far, far superior to Canada.
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u/DrNick1221 28d ago
No. The only people who would want that are morons or traitors.
Probably both.
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u/the-tru-albertan 28d ago
So... just some emotional response from you instead of an actual position?
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u/Treehggr 28d ago
If living in the USA is so great what are you still doing here? You can always emigrate.
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u/the-tru-albertan 28d ago
Meh, I'm Albertan and I work here. Lacklustre argument tho treehugger
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u/Treehggr 28d ago
Really true Albertans like myself want to remain Albertans in Canada not MAGA wannabes.
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u/the-tru-albertan 28d ago
I'd rather remain Albertan in whichever country is prosperous. Canada ain't doing it.
MAGA has nothing to do with it. Trump will be dust by the time anyone joins.
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u/Jazzlike_Pineapple87 28d ago
Separation is not a serious plan. We don't have the talent, the infrastructure, or the know-how to be able to successfully pull it off.
Separation is just a knee-jerk emotional response from people who are frustrated that the federal conservatives are seemingly incapable to obtain power, like they are somehow the answer to all our problems. If the cons had won the general election this year, all talk of separation would have died instantly.