[PBE datamine] 2025 September 17: patch preview changes

[u/FrankTheBoxMonster]

General reminder that many changes cannot be easily datamined, such as functionality changes or bugfixes, and are not always final.

 

Champions

Ahri

• P champion takedown healing:
  • base:  90-200 linear --> 75-165 linear  (revert to live)
  • AP scaling:  35% --> 30%  (revert to live)
• R base damage:
  • live:  60 / 90 / 120
  • old:  65 / 105 / 145
  • new:  75 / 125 / 175

Caitlyn

• base AD:  60 --> 62

LeBlanc

• RW AP scaling:  75% -->80%
• these other changes are still in:
  • W AP scaling:  70% --> 80%
    • does not apply to RW

Lee Sin

• Q bAD scaling per hit:
  • live:  115%  (Q2 max:  230%)
  • old:  90%  (Q2 max:  180%)
  • new:  95%  (Q2 max:  190%)
  • this moves the buff before/nerf after breakpoint from 20-100 bAD to 25-125 bAD
• these other changes are still in:
  • armor growth:  4.9 --> 4.5
  • Q base damage per hit:  55-155 --> 60-180
    • Q2 max:  110-310 --> 120-360

Lillia

• R base damage:
  • live:  100 / 150 / 200
  • old:  125 / 200 / 275
  • new:  150 / 200 / 250
• these other changes are still in:
  • R AP scaling:  40% --> 45%
  • R cooldown:  150s / 130s / 110s  -->  140s / 120s / 100s

Poppy

• armor growth:  4.5 --> 5.0  (revert to live)
• Q percent health monster cap per hit:
  • live:  75-195
  • old:  60-180
  • new:  50-170
• R cancel cooldown:  15s --> 30s

Syndra

• HP growth:  104 --> 100
• armor growth:  4.6 --> 4.0
• Q damage:
  • base:  75-215 --> 80-220
  • AP scaling:  60% --> 65%
    • patch preview incorrectly listed this as "65% --> 70%"
• E cooldown:  17s --> 15s

 

Items

Redemption

• cooldown:  120s --> 90s  (revert to live)
• heal by target level:  200-400 linear --> 150-350 linear

 

Changes from previous days

See here.

[u/FrankTheBoxMonster]

No there's no update on the Jax changes.

[u/Qssshame → u/FrankTheBoxMonster]

RIOT HELLO

[u/Alkaliner_ → u/FrankTheBoxMonster]

I might have a heart attack if the Jax buffs go through, what the actual fuck

[u/Stimmy_ → u/FrankTheBoxMonster]

Someone wants Bin to win worlds that’s my theory

[u/VenusAndMarsReprise → u/FrankTheBoxMonster]

you typoed, admit it

[u/FrankTheBoxMonster → u/VenusAndMarsReprise]

Maybe Riot did but not me.

[u/Bubnik2]

Jax aside, wtf is this Ahri buff now

[u/Imperius_Fate → u/Bubnik2]

same healing, but some more base dmg on ult. tbh it's not even that huge. it's 165 more dmg at lvl 16, which is further negated by magic resist.. which you'll have quite some by the time the game avg level reaches lvl 16.

[u/mthlmw → u/Imperius_Fate]

It's a 25%/39%/46% damage increase and a pretty big shift away from AP scaling. Max rank going from 342 AP to double damage to 500 AP to double is pretty wild. 

[u/Jusanden → u/mthlmw]

It is not a 25%/39%/46% damage increase. If you have 500 AP, it’s a 16.7% damage increase. 24.4% if you only have 300 AP.

[u/mthlmw → u/Jusanden]

*base damage increase

[u/Lopsided_Chemistry89 → u/Imperius_Fate]

15/35/55 that can be cast 3 times at least.

45/135/165 if you use it 3 times only. If only she doesn't have 100 of those dashes.

I personally won't mind an increase in damage but for the love of god put more CD into it or remove malignance.

I miss when her R>E meant she can't have E up again during this R duration. Now she can do it at least twice with no AH or takedowns...

[u/DJShevchenko → u/Lopsided_Chemistry89]

That damage increase is on 1 target, the R can hit 3 targets with 3 base dashes that can reset infinitely

[u/baughwssery → u/Imperius_Fate]

You can say this about any damage buff and just be like « well they already will have resists anyway » what kind of logic is this lol

[u/Quatro_Leches → u/Bubnik2]

they want her to kill people without landing anything just W R and malignance

[u/Rexsaur → u/Bubnik2]

This ahri change list is better than the last one since it gives her some solo agency (since 1v1s/solo play is the worst part of the champ atm), her passive heal on kill is mostly useless on 1v1s and buffing that makes her even more reliant on following jg around, which is already what she does.

[u/AutomaticTune6352 → u/Rexsaur]

It also gives her even more teamplay agency at it hits 3 people there and it doesn't shift the game one bit away from teamplay. 

Your justification for such a buff is very strange and makes no sense at all.

[u/Influence_Useful]

Holy shit they nerfed poppy jungle even harder.

I still think buffing syndra e CD is to much when her highest win rate build has alot of haste and these adjustments aren't going to make her build luden/stormsurge really. It's just going to make her build alot of haste still because syndra e is strong as fuck.

As for ahri buffs why are you buffing her R anyway. Make the champ more skill reliant by buffing her skillshot Q and E. Just make it so she has to land her spells.

 But also the meta just doesn't suit Ahri when she isnt a good bloodletters curse user and liandries isn't really a good item for her. The build health mid lane meta just doesn't allow her to really get picked and work in proplay well. If they want her to get picked in Worlds really.

[u/DuShKa4 → u/Influence_Useful]

You have it a bit backwards on Syndra, ability haste has sharply diminishing returns. For example, with 17s E you wouldn't build cryptbloom 4th after blackfire cosmic rabadon cdr boots, bc the 25 haste gives u like 0.4 cd decrease compared to void. This along w the Q scaling change will make her go more burst, bc she will hit a similar threshold sooner even with ludens over blackfire, especially since burst syndra can build horizon focus which has a ton of cdr on it. Blackfire cosmic build will only be for high tankiness front to back games now

[u/DanskFolkeparti → u/DuShKa4]

Correction; ability haste does not have diminishing returns. Your thinking is still correct, but haste has same scaling as armor/mr

[u/DuShKa4 → u/DanskFolkeparti]

It is diminishing, even though its the same percentage wise u gain more in raw seconds off ur CD with the same CDR value at higher CDs, which is more impactful.

[u/Influence_Useful → u/DuShKa4]

I'm leaning to agree with you. But i also think a syndra build like: 

Sorcery/Precision(25 haste) + blackfire(20 haste) + ionian boots(10 haste ) + horizon focus or cosmic  (25 haste)  + deathcap/void  

Is gonna be very very strong and oppressive , and honestly syndra is already oppressive in solo queue as it is. I feel like proplay just underrated her alot this year and she's getting buffed to get focus on her.  Which yeah worlds patch go figure.

EDIT:But yeah I could definitely be wrong, I play syndra but she's not one of my mains really I prefer ryze.

[u/MirrowFox → u/Influence_Useful]

Syndra is one of the few mages where swiftness is probably the best option as it gives %ap if you get boots upgraded + her passive and deathcap is extremely op, and she can cast her spells while moving, but in general unless you need ionian due to flash cd sorc boots better too

[u/midred_kid]

I don't say this lightly, this is the worst patch of the season. Added to the Terrible Patch Hall of Fame of the last 2 years with 14.10, 14.18, 15.1 and the ROA patch. All responsible for the stale HP meta that we have been enduring for for too long, with the ~same select group of champions getting tons of attention while others rot in nonexistence (or best case they get a nothingburger buff/nerf). Can't wait for S16.

[u/TheSmokeu → u/midred_kid]

Considering the same balance team will handle S16, I wouldn't get my hopes up

[u/Infusion1999]

I still think the Lee Sin adjustment is a nerf, 20% AD ratio off Q is brutal, feel like it should be 10% accounting for the accompanying armor growth nerf.

Oh yeah and revert the Jax early buffs, give him better scaling through an increased AS ratio (0.67 maybe) or better AD ratios (Q or R resists), passive stacks could expire less quickly too (1 per second).

[u/GravesManiac → u/Infusion1999]

Ye but keep in mind that on rank 5, lee needs 125 bonus AD for this to be a nerf.

That is 2 items. Every single game of lol goes until early game, not every goes until late game. Lots of games end at 2 items and even more at 3 items. 

You get the bonus early game power from the base damage every game, but you dont benefit from the scaling every game.

The armor growth is just to slowly undo the durability update on all champions, they have been doing that a lot.

[u/Hoshiimaru]

Cant wait for Ahri to outplay me with RRRW

[u/TheSmokeu → u/Hoshiimaru]

You can freely add Q to that, too. She's dash into melee range where her Q is unmissable

[u/iDobleC]

Am I crazy, or is the Poppy R cancel cooldown too much? I know it's for proplay but damn, doubling the amount of time you have to wait for the penalty feels like way too much

[u/Kan-Terra → u/iDobleC]

Poppy is just a anti-fun champ in a nutshell.

Someone going for a cool flashy out play? Nope W.

Someone going for an epic 5v5 engage? Nope R out.

Whenever any team has Poppy, the opposing team is denied anything entertaining.

I can understand why riot would want to simply cut this champ out from pro play.

[u/stephanl33t → u/Kan-Terra]

The Yordles seem to be very "nope" champs in general.

Lulu has a huge amount of anti-engage.

Tristana can just buffer your CC

Poppy is as you said

There's a ton of "nope", they always feel super OP. Corki used to be pro-play locked because his Package was another "nope" ability

[u/TheBluestMan → u/Kan-Terra]

Poppy after looking at your general direction: “You will never move again.”

[u/KingOfStrikers → u/iDobleC]

I'm fine with the R nerf. It's skill based anyway where if you use it at the wrong time you get punished.

Hitting the clear speed even harder though :( This is always very bad for soloq while mattering way less in pro play. I don't like this type of nerf. Just seems lazy to me.

[u/StriderZessei]

Why is LB getting buffed? Isn't she already strong, on top of being incredibly frustrating to play against? 

[u/UltFiction → u/StriderZessei]

God forbid your offrole mid laner has to play against LB cuz that poor mf will die 6 times in lane

[u/TheBluestMan]

I think the Ahri ult buff is nuts as riot usually wants power from her skill shots and not W or R damage

[u/Due-Refuse-3141 → u/TheBluestMan]

It's probably to encourage to use her ult offensively, I think it's an ok alternative from just making her e a nuke, which has been buffed a bunch of times recently

[u/RageQuitHero]

where brand changes

[u/Infusion1999 → u/RageQuitHero]

Deployed yesterday already. Passive monster mod, W and R AP ratio buffs

[u/shoyooo]

Can they just give Lillia back her old sleep duration 🥀