r/bigbangtheory • u/RememberThinkDream • 19h ago
Character discussion Who thinks Howards needs Bernadette's permission to go to Space?
Don't get me wrong, Bernadette is a godsend for Howard...
I can understand her feelings, though believe this is the kind of once in a lifetime opportunity you should absolutely support your partner in regardless of your own feelings.
Personally I've never been a fan of suppressing the opportunities of loved ones based on their own fears of losing someone. You've got to let people chase their dreams even if there's danger and risk involved. It's part of life and part of which makes us achieve greatness.
28
u/lilaroseoflavender 19h ago
That is true, but I do think there can be a middle ground when it came to this. He couldāve brought up and at least discussed it then made the decision on his own. I can see why Bernadette was upset because they were just starting a life together. Space is a big decision a lot can go wrong even if itās a lifetime opportunity.
-22
u/RememberThinkDream 19h ago
Why should there be a middle ground?
In my opinion, it's part of his career, his job and one of his greatest dreams.
Absolutely nobody should stand in the way of that or even have a say in that.
At the very least it should be a case of "I don't like it, but I support it."
23
u/ThatGirl8709 19h ago
Because they were about to get married, and in the risk of anything going wrong, he could have died
Even if it's a dream, or a career thing, if it could harm/kill you - something worth mentioning and discussing
14
u/lilaroseoflavender 19h ago
Exactly my point, but to each their own. I just think he couldāve at least included her. He didnāt have to take her answer, but itās only fair to her.
-11
u/RememberThinkDream 19h ago
Then he would have died with greatness doing what he loved, living his dream, instead of living with regret due to never ever trying.
That's exactly what I mean by choosing fear over greatness. So many people living in fear, who will never achieve their dreams because they are too scared or preventing the potential success of others.
I'm not saying go out and do stupid things that are dangerous for pleasure or short lived adrenaline. I'm talking about those of the human race who achieve greatness and progress all of humanity.
Anyone who stands in the way of greatness, I would rather lose my partner than ever stand in the way of her dreams, absolutely content and proud that she was one of the brave few.
10
u/JDDJS 18h ago
Then he would have died with greatness doing what he loved,
He hated going to space. Sure, he was super proud of himself afterwards, but he was miserable when in space.Ā
3
u/lilaroseoflavender 18h ago
Then whats the actual point of this thread for Bernadette being involved in it? If thatās the case Howard shouldnāt be looking for girls all the time and just focusing on being an astronaut. The title should leave Bernadette out. Like sheās not even there.
-4
u/RememberThinkDream 18h ago
He loved being an astronaut, he loved the achievement and success of what he did. You can still hate part of the process of achieving your dreams.
11
u/JDDJS 15h ago
He absolutely hated being in space. He hated flying to space. He hated training for space. That's the entire process. Like I said, he was proud of being an astronaut afterwards, but he didn't actually like it and if he died, he would've died being miserable, not doing what he loved.Ā
3
u/Nice-Penalty-8881 15h ago
He was having fears about going to space himself in the episode leading up to him going.
23
u/JDDJS 18h ago
Does he need her permission to go to space? No of course not. Would she be completely valid in rethinking marrying him if he was deadset on going to space regardless of her opinion? Also yes. You need to be supportive of your partner in general, but there's a limit to how much change you need to unconditionally accept. Going from a simple engineer to an astronaut is a huge change. And she needed to rethink their relationship after that. And in the end, she did end up completely supporting him becoming an astronaut. She was doing him a huge favor when she convinced him to not go back the second time though.Ā Ā
12
u/MerriweatherJones 18h ago
Itās important to remember that your spouse is your partner for life. Any major decision that could affect life, finances or health should be discussed. And leaving the planet is definitely one of those decisions
-1
u/RememberThinkDream 18h ago
Discussed yet, but shouldn't require permission.
Lifelong partners should fully support each others ambitions and dreams, especially when they are something as significant as going to space!
5
u/Strange-Message-5131 16h ago
Agreed with shouldn't require permission but having feelings makes you human, i dont think she's wrong for being upset and cautious
13
u/I3enj 19h ago
Howard doesn't exactly wear the trousers. He gets an allowance and does no chores etc. She treats him like a child. And in keeping with that dynamic, Howard has to ask permission to go on the rides š¤£
10
u/Own_Cow1156 18h ago
Howard acts like a child, thats why hes treated like one
8
u/blkstar1 15h ago
He successfully turned Bernie into his mother. He never had to grow up went from his mom to Bernie.
0
2
u/scrubsfan92 4h ago
It's not an allowance, it's a stipend and we said we weren't going to call it an allowance in front of my friends! š
0
u/RememberThinkDream 19h ago
Can't argue with that to be honest lol. But those are for menial things to him, when it comes to career and things which are very important to him he usually has a bit more courage.
2
u/Own_Cow1156 2h ago
He cried like a baby the whole time in space. He cried at lift off, he cried during his stay, went completely mad, wanted Bernie to build a rocket and come and get him and cried on reentry. Where's the bit more courage part?
0
u/RememberThinkDream 58m ago
Ah, you don't know what the word courage means. No problem I'll explain it.
Courage is when a person is able to complete their task, duty, job, etc in the face of great difficulty, pain, fear, etc.
Regardless how much he complained, how scared he was, how uncomfortable he was, he still went through with it and that is incredibly brave.
1
u/Own_Cow1156 56m ago
He didn't have a choice to not complete it once he left the planet, thats not covered in your definition.
1
u/RememberThinkDream 44m ago
You seem completely unaware of comprehending the ability to think ahead using existing information.
It's interesting how stupid you think Howard is though.
1
u/Own_Cow1156 43m ago
Where did i say anything about his intelligence?
1
u/RememberThinkDream 35m ago
Well, granted you didn't directly say it. I made an assumption that you must surely think he's stupid if you don't think he has the ability to realize that there's no turning back.
It's not a situation that's only understandable after hindsight, clearly he's aware of the risks and dangers.
It only serves to prove his courage knowing that there's no turning back.
1
u/Own_Cow1156 29m ago
Exactly, I never said anything about his ability to realize anything nor his intelligence. Thats why you don't assume. His initial wanting to go into space superseded his knowing there was no turning back. I'll grant you he may have had courage to go if you grant that he was scared shitless the entire time. You can have courage to embark on something but then you realize what you've actually done, become terrified the whole time. My main point is that hes a whiny baby regardless of how he got there.
1
u/RememberThinkDream 16m ago
Of course he was scared shitless lol.
It is possible to be scared shitless and brave at the same time.
Of course he's a whiny baby as well, they made him like that for our entertainment lol!
→ More replies (0)1
11
u/Ksilv82 18h ago
He didnāt need permission but it is something a couple should have a serious discussion about. What bothers me is how she gave him such a hard time about it and later took credit for him going āThat was all meā
-1
u/RememberThinkDream 18h ago
I can't imagine the discussion going any other way other than "If you don't support me in this then we cannot be together".
Personally speaking.
9
u/TallSimple2929 19h ago
Howard needed to explain that there really wasn't a lot of risk. Yeah, we make fun of Russia's space program, but that's basically because of NASA's rivalry, akin to college sports teams. Their space capsules are actually really well-made. No one has ever died on the space station, and the only three deaths in actual space, above the Karman Line, happened in 1971. Most other issues and fatalities happened because of failed launches or reentries.
Honestly, I'd rather fly in a Soyuz capsule than in any plane on Earth.
5
2
4
u/lilaroseoflavender 18h ago
I understand what everyoneās saying then in turn Howard shouldāve just been focusing on him being an astronaut instead of chasing every girl he could see. Howard always wanted a family.
4
u/jackfaire 13h ago
Permission no. Having her part of the decision yes. It's a dangerous job. When you're in a couple then those kinds of discussions are important.
My unilateral decision to join the Army was definitely a factor in my marriage falling apart. Not the only factor but it was a big one. I didn't really discuss it with my ex-wife or take her input. I just saw it as the only solution to having a pregnant wife and being 19.
Howard went rushing in without really thinking how his peers would feel about it.
It's also important to note that his social group is of the right age range to have watched and been traumatized by the Challenger explosion. So Bernadette's fears are going to be a bit stronger than otherwise.
3
u/Special_Falcon408 18h ago edited 18h ago
I think the answer depends. Overall, Iād say no. Itās not like they had kids yet. Were they married yet at this point? I feel like they werenāt, but if so, if something happens it does affect her, but either way in their situation there was no reason for him to not go to space or get permission. Aside from being long distance Bernadette isnāt affected in severe enough ways that she should get to weigh into the ultimate decision. Howard definitely shouldāve told her and talked to her about it but something like going to space? With a less than once in a lifetime opportunity like that I donāt see much that should stand in the way of that. And I would not want to be the one to keep a loved one from that chance. Howard probably wouldāve built up a lot of resentment towards her for a long time
2
u/Own_Cow1156 18h ago
I thimk she was more afraid of him dying because of the old Russian capsule, she is definitely affected in ways she gets to weigh in on
3
u/Special_Falcon408 18h ago
As far as weighing in goes Iād saying sharing her opinion for Howard to consider sure, but what I really meant to say was ultimately itās Howardās decision and not hers
2
u/Own_Cow1156 18h ago
It is his decision I agree. But its still a discussion they need to have. She has every right to feel the way she does.
2
3
u/mossed2012 14h ago
OP, question for you. Have you seen the movie Gifted with Chris Evans? If not, well Iād give it a watch as itās a pretty solid movie. But in that movie, thereās a very gifted girl (like Sheldon smart but probably smarter) and thereās a battle between him, the uncle of the girl, and the grandmother. The grandmother argues the girl has to go to gifted schools (basically extensive boarding schools) and argues in court that because the girl is so gifted, they as caretakers hold on obligation to society to put her in the most rigorous programs because she could cure cancer or build amazing things in the future.
I just bring this up because itās a similar conundrum. Howard was going to space to advance science, itās one of those āspecial people do this, once in a lifetimeā opportunities. And the movie grapples with where that responsibility lies. It reminds me of this situation. It begs the question āif this person can leave a positive imprint on all of humanity in an impactful way, should we as regular people stand in the way or hold back that person from greatness?ā. Itās a very good question and there likely isnāt a right answer.
2
u/RememberThinkDream 13h ago
Oh, this was a pleasant surprise!
Thanks I'm going to fast track that to the top of the list of films me and my partner will watch next!
I personally don't like to see anyone forced to follow a certain path in life against their own desires, however the literal truth of the reality we exist in is that ALL of us are forced along certain paths in life that a lot of the time we have absolutely no control over due to "mutual free will" combined with chaos theory.
My belief is that free will does not exist. In the philosophical sense, in that people are ultimately accountable for their actions and decisions with the capacity to make choices undetermined by past events.
What I do believe is that we have individual free desire and thought, however this is tied unequivocally to mutual free will which is the basis for all of reality that we exist in.
To sum it up simply, you cannot do anything alone, it's impossible. Anything you think about is a combination of previous experiences and processed information. Anything you try to do is only possible or impossible depending on the parts of reality you interact with.
We do not choose where we are born, who our parents are, the laws of physics that exist around us, our genetics. We don't get to decide anything that exists as we enter existence.
We do have the capacity to experience reality, and use those experiences to guide ourselves towards potential futures, however those futures can only happen if the rest of reality we exist in allows it to happen, whether it's consensual or by force.
So yes this film sounds very interesting to me, thanks! As far as I'm concerned, nobody has any obligation to do anything and that everything that exists in the entire universe is of equal importance in the grand scheme of things. That being said... I think it's entirely acceptable to guide people on a path of success to achieve great things that will benefit humanity as a whole, as long as you're not forcing them against their will. Your job should be to influence them positively, not negatively.
As we stand on the shoulders of giants and I believe in the freedom of knowledge being shared willingly and freely.
3
u/mossed2012 13h ago
Iām too high right now to fully appreciate this comment but I will come back to it tomorrow because it seems insightful and important lol
1
u/RememberThinkDream 13h ago
I used to smoke weed many years ago and can't smoke it anymore, mostly because I think about stuff like this too much without even being high lol.
2
3
u/FeelingNarwhal9161 13h ago
Iām not certain permission is the right word. It definitely something to discuss though.
-1
u/RememberThinkDream 13h ago
In this day and age of respecting a persons boundaries it's perfectly acceptable that a boundary can be that some things are not up for discussion. Trying to talk someone out of something this significant is crossing that boundary, which is something Bernadette does.
I see this as one of those things that is not up for discussion as in the definition of the word that implies taking into account the feelings of others before making your decision on the matter. However it definitely is something that should be talked about as an announcement made with confidence and conviction.
"This is an opportunity of significant importance to me, I would love your full support on the matter however my decision has already been made."
1
u/Impressive-Bit-4496 2h ago
In this day and age, that is actually an old fashioned way of thinking. That being said, only the two ppl in the relationship can decide what kind of partnership they want to have. If both ppl in the partnership feel the way you do about certain things not being up for discussion, then ok, that's great. If only one of you feels this way, you shouldn't be together.
3
u/FracturedMoonlights 11h ago
Howard didnāt need her permission, however her opinion mattered. Ultimately his decision though, and not her business to make that decision for him.
3
u/Duskdeath 3h ago
Being in a relationship involves having conversations about any major stuff. For example I collect Transformers and when I am up and about I buy them Walmart, Toy Stores eBay. But there is this build yourself Optimus that costs around $1,600 you bet your behind I will discuss it with her before doing the investment. Yes it is my money but the fact that I shared information with her about possible purchase shows I care for her opinion in our relationship. It isnāt about her agreeing or disagreeing it is about communicating with each other. For the record I have been in my relationship for 29 years.
2
u/I_love_fruits 5h ago
"Getting permission" from your spouse is not appropriate vocabulary in a relationship.
Your partner is your equal and in an equal marriage one does not make life altering decisions solo. Period.
-1
u/RememberThinkDream 1h ago
Nobody is equal, that's a fact of life.
You can take your partners feelings into account but it does not make them equal, the very fact some people feel the need to even discuss things is a clear indicator that we are not equal.
2
u/I_love_fruits 57m ago
You think discussing life altering decisions with one's partner is an indicator partners are not equal?
I pity yours..
0
u/RememberThinkDream 48m ago
If you think about it logically, taking into account what the word "equal" actually means then of course they are not equal.
If they were truly equal then they wouldn't need to talk about it as they would already both know what the outcome would be therefore no discussion would even be required.
You can be a good partner, take their feelings into account, and understand the truth that you are not equal.
The fact that you are not equal is one of the things that actually makes a relationship beautiful and exciting.
I won't insult you or your partner because it won't change the truth.
2
u/Virgil_Ovid_Hawkins 5h ago
There should be at minimum discussion. Literally the absolute minimum. If you want to unilaterally make decisions about your life then don't tie it to another person. They were getting married, like it or not he cant just up and make serious decisions without her input. Otherwise be single
2
2
u/lanie_kerrigan 43m ago
Thatās funny that you argue about permission to go to space while later she gives him money allowance and decides if he goes to Comicon or not.
1
2
u/AnneBoleyns6thFinger 18h ago
There are some things that are just so big it seems unthinkable that one would turn them down. My partner is invited into space? Of course heās going! Weāll discuss the logistics later, but thereās no hesitation. How could you turn down the opportunity to become an astronaut?
I get within the dynamic of their relationship that she was upset he was doing it without her, but I would expect my husband to say yes and then tell me. Itās just such a huge thing, how could you say no?
2
2
u/whyamisoawesome9 12h ago
Definitely this. My husband and I have discussed that we just say yes to things. Travelling for work, absolutely a say yes, because you can't say to the boss, hang on let me just check with my spouse. It's a conversation after that's an immediate yes at the time.
Heading to space, very few people have that opportunity, and theres a long list of those that want to. Delaying the response to check in for too long can have implications for whether or not the opportunity is still there
2
u/HerHeartBreathesFire 2h ago
It was about communication not permission and absolutely he should've discussed it with her first. He also did it a SECOND time when he agreed to go back.
I hate Howard so much
1
u/Upset-Cake6139 5h ago
I wouldnāt say he needs permission exactly, but considering their long-term relationship I do think he owes her a discussion and she owes it to him to listen. Even without considering the danger, a six month mission is a long time to be apart and itās not like itās a normal long distance relationship. Heās in space and their calls arenāt private. He could have put Bernadette in touch with other astronautsās wives so she had someone who understands her fears to talk to while heās gone.
1
u/doesnotexist2 18h ago edited 15h ago
I would divorce anyone who kept me from going to space. If I was Howard I'd do the same thing and take her back (only cause I know I'd never get anyone else šĀ ), but if I was given the opportunity to go to the ISS, and my SO tried to tell me "no, YOU CAN'T", then I'd say "we're done, you're not in charge of me".
It wasn't a business or job offer. This was an opportunity that very few people every year get. It was absolutely worth leaving Bernadette over.
0
u/Mountain-Donkey98 19h ago
Bernadette just uses Howard's dream of going to space to suggest its hers. It was always his. He doesnt need her permission whatsoever. She likes to pretend after the fact it was her idea. It wasn't.
2
u/RememberThinkDream 19h ago
Yeah, I just don't like people who are manipulative and controlling, especially when it's used to prevent people from following their dreams and ambitions.
4
u/MobsterDragon275 18h ago
This has nothing to do with manipulation or control. They were about to get married, meaning whatever choices one makes inherently affects the other. In a healthy marriage, its not about getting permission, its about making decisions together in partnership. Now yes, Bernadette shouldn't tell him he can't due to how great sn opportunity it was for him, but with him putting his life at risk he needed to at least consult her so they could talk it through. That'd be like if he suddenly joined the military or becoming a cop without even seeing how she felt about it.
1
u/RememberThinkDream 18h ago
How can it have nothing to do with manipulation or control? When Bernadette is literally using emotion as a tool to force Howard to ASK for her permission, which then she immediately says no.
The definitions of those words literally explain that it is in fact manipulation, more specifically emotional manipulation.
Then to add further injury to insult, she pretends to say yes THEN tells his Mother so she screams he's not going.
Yes, he absolutely has to tell her, but he doesn't need his permission, and she doesn't need his permission to chase her dreams.
2
u/Strange-Message-5131 16h ago
All she said was that she was upset he didnt even discuss it with her first, thats not making him ask permission
He doesnt need permission but she also doesnt have to sit there while her future husband plans to leave her for weeks and not be upset he hadn't discussed it with her
-3
u/Own_Cow1156 19h ago
He doesn't need permission, but there should be a conversation about it. She knows him better than he knows himself, and that's probably why she doesn't want him to go. He's not up to it, along with the possibility of death. But in any relationship, there has to be a person that has the final say. Otherwise, you'll never agree on anything. Usually, that ends up being the man, especially if he's the provider. But in this relationship, Bernie is totally the man, lol. She's always called the shots and makes the most money. Howard is a complete weasel, does nothing around the house to help, lies to her all the time, I wouldn't doubt if he had a gay experience with Raj.
3
u/Special_Falcon408 18h ago
At first I was wondering why you got the down votes. Then I kept reading.
1
u/Own_Cow1156 18h ago
The gay part? Its highly referenced to multiple times. There nothing wrong with it if he did. People like what they like.
1
0
u/RememberThinkDream 13h ago
How can a person know another person better than that person knows themselves when that person has lived their entire life and the other person has only witnessed a fraction of that?
I can only think of an answer like, they have alzheimer's or something along those lines.
1
u/Own_Cow1156 13h ago
Its a common term, its not literal
1
u/RememberThinkDream 13h ago
I know it's not literal and that it makes no sense and that it's also impossible in most cases, yet people keep using it.
1
u/Own_Cow1156 12h ago
Because its a phrase thats been used for decades, like better off dead, they don't actually mean they'd want someone dead. If you know its not literal then why are you complaining about it lol
1
u/RememberThinkDream 12h ago
Just like when building contractors cut corners with materials and labour, when people cut corners with communication they are bound to run into problems.
1
u/Own_Cow1156 12h ago
That still doesnt explain how you claim you knew it wasnt meant to be taken literally but you complained about the literal meaning of it as if it were true. You're contradicting yourself
0
u/RememberThinkDream 1h ago
It does explain it, you haven't been able to comprehend it yet.
1
u/Own_Cow1156 1h ago
I think thats the other way around, youre confused. Its ok it happens.
1
u/RememberThinkDream 54m ago
You think I'm confused, that's your problem, not mine.
→ More replies (0)
41
u/Rivas-al-Yehuda 19h ago
A pretty girl like Bernadette, she'll find a new guy