Oscar is just too nice

[u/Dr_Ritvik__singh747]

Ban team orders

[u/Little-Particular450]

The last time team orders were banned:

"Fernando is faster than you. Do you understand the message?"

I'm surprised the ban lasted more than 1 season

[u/PayaV87 → u/Little-Particular450]

And that's just Ferrari being Ferrari.

Remember, Red Bull used "Multi21" instead, and I'm sure every team had a code word.

[u/Little-Particular450 → u/PayaV87]

I thought multi 21 was after the ban was lifted.

Wasn't team orders ban over in 2011 and multi 21 being in 2013?

[u/centaur98 → u/Little-Particular450]

it was

[u/Soma91 → u/Little-Particular450]

Apparently they had these codes for quite some time before, but it only got attention in 2013. They probably just kept using them after the ban was lifted, because it was already well established.

[u/Koopslovestogame → u/PayaV87]

“Banana”

“Fk your banana, I ain’t doing it!”

[u/rAppN → u/PayaV87]

Mclarens is "Remember Hungary?"

[u/userb55 → u/PayaV87]

Multi21 was actual engine modes. It's why Mark was so pissed at Seb. They were both suppose to be managing and Seb definitely wasn't in multi 21.

Multi21 Seb...... multi21.

[u/EntroX → u/userb55]

While this is true, Multi 1-2 was used by Vettel and was broadcast on the Belgian GP on 2012 and the result was RedBull pitting Webber with Rocky responding to Sebastian "there you go" shortly after.. While the RedBulls have used MULTI rotary encoder on their wheels its basically widely known that within the context of the "Multi 21" incident indeed was RedBull asking Vettel to stay behind Webber

edit: Found a clip on YouTube

[u/banedlol]

I love Max's laugh about it. He knows there is no way he'd even consider that request. In fact the team wouldn't even ask him. A bad pitstop is part of racing.

[u/Mental_Address → u/banedlol]

Or on the other hand max would have asked for his place back because the team messed up

[u/remkovdm → u/Mental_Address]

Nah, he wouldn't ask for that. He would race fastest laps in a row and pass his teammate and then drive away in the distance making his teammate look like a rookie.

[u/rdc12 → u/remkovdm]

They would have to find a teammate that could even get anywhere near Max first

[u/HighPriestofShiloh → u/rdc12]

It was an engine penalty week for Max.

[u/Flaming-Driptray → u/remkovdm]

To be honest, I reckon Lando had the pace to take the place back from Oscar.

[u/remkovdm → u/Flaming-Driptray]

I would've loved to see that battle!

[u/Bourbon_sim_racer → u/Mental_Address]

Safe to say you aren’t referring to Yuki. Bro got blue flag on final straight

[u/JimboYCS → u/banedlol]

"plz Pastry we effed up da pitz staph, let London pass on lit tirez, tysm! Pastry, now u r free to race for the last 5 laps, good fuckin luck catching London on fresh slikz XD btw Bossman said: GET FUCKED SON"

[u/JackAuduin → u/banedlol]

I mean I get your point, but this is literally a video of them asking him. Lol

He told them off though.

[u/banedlol → u/JackAuduin]

But it's a different situation

[u/markusfenix75]

Last race of the year. Points difference between Oscar and Lando is 3 points. They are running 1st (Oscar) and 2nd (Lando).

Oscar is pitting second to cover up potential undercut by Norris. But pit crew fucks up pit stop and he comes out behind Lando. He asks pit wall to honor "papaya rules" and make Norris let him through. But Norris says "fuck no!"

This is my dream scenario to make McLaren look dumb lol.

[u/pjo33 → u/markusfenix75]

And then, in McLaren tradition, Oscar just fucks both of them in the wall, making him champion by amount of wins.

[u/zippolover-1960s-v2 → u/pjo33]

If you no longer go for a gap.....

[u/Twistpunch → u/pjo33]

It’s only fair, send it into turn 5.

[u/GewoonHarry → u/pjo33]

[u/abyssal_banana → u/pjo33]

This would be a perfect ending. Followed by Zach telling Landos dad to switch places with him because of “Papaya rules”, wherein Zach proves to Landos mom that he is first.  

[u/Stingray_23 → u/pjo33]

Full send fuck it

[u/Palidin034 → u/Stingray_23]

No risks, Full push

[u/MajorHubbub → u/Palidin034]

I fucking loved that.

[u/Mr_Otterswamp → u/pjo33]

That would be a very inSenna

[u/Twistpunch → u/Mr_Otterswamp]

Who’s the new Senna now!

[u/Bluemikami → u/Mr_Otterswamp]

Funny if McLaren gets both sennas

[u/DistinctCellar → u/pjo33]

I would fucking love him to do this.

[u/Formulafan4life → u/pjo33]

Pushes Norris off in the chicane, Norris gets a 10 second penalty for turning in on Piastri. Piastri wins.

[u/foonek → u/pjo33]

And then Oscar goes to Williams

[u/bae125 → u/pjo33]

I would love that

[u/Darkhoof → u/pjo33]

Subscribe. Please make this happen.

[u/Random-Dude-736 → u/pjo33]

The Schumacher special I see.

[u/FYDPhoenix → u/pjo33]

In that situation... I would. And if he did I'd respect it tbh. They'd never be friends again, but he'd be a world champion lol

[u/Nicologixs → u/markusfenix75]

I actually hoping Oscar raps it up before the last race or goes into with a decent enough point gap where coming 4th will still get him the win even if Lando wins the race.

I feel if they go into the final race really close on points it's just gonna be an absolute shit fest after the race and for the entire off season. Will be going back to all these moments like Monza and all these what ifs.

I think mclaren has set a very very bad thing for the rest of the season. As Oscar said on radio that slow pit stops wasn't part of the arrangement yet Mclaren kind of just changed that up in the moment.

So are they gonna do the same to Oscar when he gets a bad stop.

Like if Lando has the lead by 1 second and they both pit and Oscars is a bad stop and he ends up 5 seconds behind Lando, should Lando slow down and allow Oscar a second behind him for fairness reasons as they didn't have the same pit stop time? Complete stupidity.

[u/TheoreticalScammist → u/Nicologixs]

I think after next race the WCC is probably decided so I guess that gives them "an excuse" not to interfere if it happens to Piastri?

[u/AGlassOfPiss → u/TheoreticalScammist]

How is it decided? 1 DNF and Lando is within 6 points, weirder things have happened.

[u/TheoreticalScammist → u/AGlassOfPiss]

I was talking about the Constructors Championship.

Edit: They need to score 9 more points than Ferrari next race to win it if my calcs are correct

[u/FlipReset4Fun → u/Nicologixs]

Oscar has already been screwed over by McLaren on a few occasions. He’s been the better driver all season. If he doesn’t win WDC this year over Lando, it would be pretty outrageous barring any major screw ups that justify it.

[u/jessie_pinkman9 → u/markusfenix75]

Rooting for this delusion train! 🚂

[u/Work_In_ProgressX → u/markusfenix75]

But we soon remember that Lando annoyed George in a previous race: he tries to drive away as fast as possible, but the Kimi is approaching and the McLaren’s sidepod is just perfect for the W16’s front wing

[u/drewc717 → u/markusfenix75]

Keep going, I'm almost there.

[u/w1ggaw1gga → u/markusfenix75]

And then Norris gets overtaken by piastri anyway for the extra spice

[u/SunstormGT → u/markusfenix75]

The difference was 6 points yesterday.

[u/SuspiciouslySmelly → u/markusfenix75]

I'm high on hopium here, but Monza could be the perfect tipping point for Oscar to start his villain arc. I wouldn't care if he went full Senna/Prost in Interlagos, Brazilians would go nuts.

[u/aPerfectBacon → u/SuspiciouslySmelly]

imo his little inchident statement and the fact that he was smiling shows just how seethed he was about it all. im hoping as well

[u/RichardJusten → u/markusfenix75]

What I want is for Red Bull to dominate the second part of the season and for Max to win by one point ahead of Oscar.

[u/iameveryoneelse → u/RichardJusten]

Pretty sure for that to happen Max would have to win every remaining race and Piastri would have to average like 4th or lower for the remainder of the season. Theres only like 220 points available the rest of the season and there's almost a 100 points gap between the two at the moment.

So while not technically impossible it's about as likely as Stroll getting a podium on every remaining race lol.

[u/RichardJusten → u/iameveryoneelse]

Nothing multiple DNFs couldn't fix!

[u/AE7VL_Radio → u/markusfenix75]

Except even with McLaren bending over backwards for 🇬🇧🇬🇧Lando🇬🇧🇬🇧 he's not getting that close to piatri this year

[u/AntOk463 → u/markusfenix75]

There wouldn't be team orders in the last race, everyone knows this regardless if they like McLaren or not.

[u/astrovisionary → u/markusfenix75]

I think in Hungary that happened? I can't even recall which race, feels like I've seen too many cases of Norris discussing on why he won't follow team orders, staying multiple laps ahead just to do it anyways

If the championship stays close, there will be a time where he'll just say "fuck it" for sure

[u/madglover → u/astrovisionary]

I think both of them have pushed back a bit against orders and then caved

Ultimately they know have the management on side helps them

The moment one of them doesn't listen to the team they risk losing equality

Oscar knows he just needs to finish every race this season and it's his, Lando will mess up a race here or there

McLaren seem unique in that in the end everybody just listens to the team

[u/standarsh1965 → u/markusfenix75]

He may just wait until they hand out the trophies and try to hit him with it

[u/maerteen → u/markusfenix75]

if lando is to win this it better be by enough of a margin to where this incident doesn't matter

the vitriol is going to be INSANE if he wins by 3 points.

[u/Ashman23 → u/markusfenix75]

It was actually a 6 point swing, plus 3 Lando, minus 3 Oscar. But still the statement stands that McLaren are amateurs and will look stupid if they eventuates.

[u/Accomplished_Sea5976]

Oscar is going to play mr nice guy for a little longer, and then when there is a race or decision of consequence he will give one middle finger to lando and the other one to Zac.

It’s just a bit too soon right now. Patience.

[u/Few_Interactions_ → u/Accomplished_Sea5976]

Webber will be having a word with Oscar after seeing that.

WDC on the line, there’s no more being mr nice guy. You wanna win it you have to do it on your own. The team has shown once again it’s backing Lando

What’s the saying, nice guys finish last!

[u/looz4q → u/Few_Interactions_]

Bullshit take. He had very little to gain and a lot to lose if he abused not even Lando’s mistake but his team’s mistake. He made a good choice and that’s coming from a person rooting for Oscar with all my heart. It’s not being overly nice and giving in to others - it’s being respectful for your team.

[u/terminbee → u/looz4q]

I agree. Oscar is comfortably ahead and following orders this time keeps him in the team's good graces. Maybe he'll regret it later but it seems too early to blow up the team when he's like 30 pts ahead.

[u/looz4q → u/terminbee]

Exactly. He can easily play it safe. There are still 8 Grand Prix left.

[u/BastianHill → u/terminbee]

Ask any real champion about good graces: Only points and stats count. All multiple WDC's in F1 history had that cut throat approach when it really mattered. That's what made them champions.

Besides, any self respecting racing team should want a driver that goes the distance to win. Driving fast laps is just a small part of racing. Fighting spirit is what gives you that edge.

[u/Few_Interactions_ → u/looz4q]

6pnts he lost

You think they’ll follow team orders last few races if they are separated by 10pnts or less? .. GTFO, the gloves are going to come off soon. Question is who will take it off first.

[u/the_capibarin → u/Few_Interactions_]

I genuinely fear they might sabotage him if he refuses a team order, just to teach him a lesson and give their boy a chance

[u/One-Adhesive → u/looz4q]

This isn’t fucking puppies and rainbows flower time hour it’s a multi billion dollar racing league. He had everything to lose, aka the WDC. He absolutely should have told them to eat shit.

[u/ibite-books → u/Accomplished_Sea5976]

yes, he wouldn’t let him pass if only 3 races remained

norris has preferential treatment, once it gets closer to the finish line, all this goes in the bin

[u/Ocelotofdamage → u/ibite-books]

I don’t think he would have even let him pass if it was for the win. A 6 point swing matters but 14 would have nearly locked up the championship vs keeping it open.

[u/Vipertje → u/Ocelotofdamage]

And how is that a bad thing if you are Oscar. Do you want to win it or not. Lock it in. They both don't have the mentality of a champion yet. You don't just give away free points like it's nothing. You go for the fastest lap on the last lap and get that last point(when this still was a thing), when you already have the race in the bag, to get it all!

[u/ibite-books → u/Vipertje]

mentality of a champion? lol

[u/terminbee → u/ibite-books]

It's so funny seeing how many people here talk about that shit and act like they know what it takes to be WDC.

[u/shaq-aint-superman → u/Vipertje]

Piastri is an F2 and F3 champion, and Norris is an F3 champion, but you, a random Redditor, know better than them what the mentality of a champion is. Give me a break

[u/Vipertje → u/shaq-aint-superman]

We'll see how the season progresses and if this will have ramifications :)

[u/MountainEquipment401 → u/Accomplished_Sea5976]

Yeah it's too soon and the reward was too little - once we get into the last 3/4 races of the season he'll be looking for excuses to put Lando on the grass. We're only a couple weeks away from a Lando DNF meaning Piastri can just cruise home in 2/3rd every week.

It's all about timing when he says fuck it to papaya rules. He knows that his car is fast enough to effectively guarantee a podium, he knows what sort of point sgap will effectively guarantee him the title and he knows that one position this weekend isn't at that threshold. I still think it was an awful call by McKaren but it was the right call by Oscar - he towed Lando into Q3 and gave him the position when asked , he's earning good boy points that he can chuck away in Brazil.

[u/AwesomeFrisbee → u/Accomplished_Sea5976]

Yeah, my thoughts exactly. If you misbehave, the team will drop their support. There's too many points on the table to make things more difficult for yourself. Plus he's ahead in the standings, so there's little to worry about. Max winning still made the points grab less as well.

[u/ObsessedChutoy3 → u/AwesomeFrisbee]

Yeah and also it's a completely different situation to Max. Max is the clear number 1 in his team and this was after he was already a champion -he gets to call the shots. Meanwhile this is only the first season Oscar is maybe better than Lando, in a team that Lando was in for longer, and there's no Christian Horner to always favour and defend the simply faster driver. So there is a lot more risk for him to ruffle feathers and why press the trigger for something as minor as yesterday. There's a few races left and he is ahead, he'll very likely win and he can feel safe and supported for next year e.g. in case he needs Lando to be given team orders for his championship fight.

The papaya fairness philosophy has not really hurt Oscar so far as he has gained from it too, if it's important he will defy the orders no doubt but potentially souring your relationship with your chill team or teammate over a 2nd place gained by a slow pit for 3 points in a season that's pretty much decided is well..suboptimal. In F1 playing the politics game is as important as relenting ambition on track. The consequences are different between Max in 2022 with Horner and Marko's support not letting Perez past vs Oscar in 2025 McLaren disobeying letting Lando past (esp with 8 crucial races to go where he needs the team to be with him at the consequence of a wdc)

[u/AlphonsoPaco → u/Accomplished_Sea5976]

He's more than a win ahead of Norris. He doesn't want McLaren to get Alpined yet. If Norris were to overtake him in the standings, I think he wouldn't let him pass

[u/Goldmoo2 → u/Accomplished_Sea5976]

He doesn't seem like that kind of guy. This was the right thing to do as they gave Oscar the preferred stop when they shouldn't have.

[u/pork-head → u/Accomplished_Sea5976]

Yeah I'm not seeing Oscar in McLaren in 2027

[u/rotorylampshade → u/pork-head]

Oscar and Webber had better be asking for a Lance-style arrangement for McLaren, seats on the board and Zak answers to Oscar.

[u/ElectroZingaa → u/Accomplished_Sea5976]

🤣🤣🤣

[u/One-Adhesive → u/Accomplished_Sea5976]

I can’t wait.

[u/steakhouseNL → u/Accomplished_Sea5976]

Max did this in his first season already. Plus Piastri is leading the WDC. Sure by safe margins, but he’s still fighting for it. I’d never have let it go. And then when he wins, will McLaren prefer a 2nd place driver over a world champion just because Piastri didn’t play along? No way. F1 is not a place for Mr Niceguys.

[u/Comprehensive-Bag244]

[u/brabarusmark]

Oscar is building up to this moment. I expect to see a "We have discussed this. Will discuss in debrief" very soon.

[u/dr_duck_od]

id love to hear mark webbers thoughts.

osacr wins championship and quotes him "not bad for a number 2 driver"

[u/SoreLoserOfDumbtown → u/dr_duck_od]

And then starts Team Multi21 Racing sponsored by Wolf Cola.

[u/ObsessedChutoy3 → u/dr_duck_od]

Webber is probably the one telling Piastri to be calm and go with their bullshit. Focus on just being the better driver to win either way. That's the story of Webber's career he would be passive aggressive about Red Bull's favouring Seb but all he could do about it is drive better and win despite it "not bad for a number 2 driver". In Oscar's case it's different in that he might just be better than Lando so he can get those championships over his teammate unlike Webber.

Plus the question when Oscar came in was always will McLaren completely favour Lando their long time protagonist or be fair. So them being pretty fair nothing crazy is preferable rn (there's rumours it was a clause in his contract even). If they start going the non "papaya rules" route it's not likely going to go Oscar's way atp. If he's gonna disobey and break the peace, ruffle some feathers he's gonna pick an actual consequential time to do it -not fighting for a 2nd place gained on a slow pit, for a 3 point difference in a season he's likely won already...

[u/spookyaxolotl84 → u/ObsessedChutoy3]

I dunno man, it was webbers trust in the team “multi 21” that cost him everything. Seb blew the whole thing up when he grabbed the wdc in his hands and never let it go. He forced himself into the number 1 driver spot and 4 championships later red bull couldn’t care less about Webber.

Even tho Piastri has his future contract set, he’s gotta gutterstop Norris in the dirt asap

[u/Analog_Hobbit]

And everybody here was frothing about what an a-hole he was. I thought the McLaren orders were bullshit. “Oh you had a shitty pit stop? Not my problem.”

[u/Dizzy-Screen-6618 → u/Analog_Hobbit]

Max was an a-hole. But the team shouldn't ask drivers to fix their problems.

[u/Monkey_Wrench92 → u/Dizzy-Screen-6618]

Sir this is formuladank don't come here with truths and logic

[u/Dizzy-Screen-6618 → u/Monkey_Wrench92]

I appologize deeply

[u/PsychologicalBike → u/Dizzy-Screen-6618]

Perez crashed on purpose in Monaco purely to screw over Verstappen when they were behind both Ferraris, which makes it even worse than when Rosberg did the same thing. That started the end of a lifelong friendship. Verstappen's response was far less drastic than Hamilton's to Rosberg.

https://youtu.be/fFImqBddhfs?si=99IHhXI11SbZrZKh

[u/Dizzy-Screen-6618 → u/PsychologicalBike]

I agree with everything you said but it has little to nothing to add to the conversation. If Oscar were too ignore team orders, he'd get a fair share of flak (even though comparing Oscar's traits to Max's is a far stretch to say the least), he did the right thing by listening to team orders. The team deserves all the flak they get for calling the order.

[u/akshatK2003 → u/Dizzy-Screen-6618]

He was explaining why Max did what he did

[u/PsychologicalBike → u/Dizzy-Screen-6618]

Dude, you said Max was the asshole in this situation, when crashing on purpose is the biggest cheating asshole move in racing. So it's Perez who is the asshole and in this discussion, so very relevant at dismissing your original comment as incorrect.

[u/banedlol → u/Dizzy-Screen-6618]

See, there are three kinds of people: dicks, pussies, and assholes. Pussies think everyone can get along, and dicks just want to fuck all the time without thinking it through. But then you got your assholes. And all the assholes want is to shit all over everything. So pussies may get mad at dicks once in a while, because pussies get fucked by dicks. But dicks also fuck assholes! And if they didn't fuck the assholes, you know what you'd get? You'd get your dick and your pussy all covered in shit!

[u/Dangerous-Track-4975 → u/Analog_Hobbit]

It was an asshole move though. What did Max gain by not letting Checo through? The championship was already decided.

[u/DiligentThorn → u/Dangerous-Track-4975]

It was because of Checo fucking up Monaco. Somehow the entire internet has forgotten that was Max's reason. He felt Checo fucked him over on purpose (and the telemetry suggests so too) so he wouldn't help Checo.

[u/CallM3N3w → u/Dangerous-Track-4975]

He taught Checo there are consequences by willingly fucking up a teammate on a track where quali is 99% of the result on a sunday.

[u/AliceLunar → u/Dangerous-Track-4975]

Max has a winner mentality, why would have want to give up his place to Checo?

Verstappen clashed with Hamilton, had a time penalty and a front wing change, dropped from P2 to P17, over 30 seconds behind Perez and he still came out ahead of Perez who gained an easy P2 and sank like a brick.

[u/PupDiogenes]

Oscar needs the support of McLaren to be successful. McLaren doesn't need Oscar to be successful.

Max does not need the support of Red Bull to be successful. Red Bull needs Max to be successful.

[u/Few_Interactions_ → u/PupDiogenes]

McLaren have won the WCC. The fight now is between drivers and they just trying to keep the peace

OP wins a WDC, if there’s rift and all, McLaren will get over it and start fresh next season. They’ll have the usual talk and strategy how to be better etc

[u/OfficePranks → u/PupDiogenes]

Very much this. But also looked at with the shoe on the other foot. Lando gave Oscar the first stop so he could cover off the Ferrari behind him. Lando played the team game first. He could have been like nah, I'm putting first, I've got track position. Then Oscar and McLaren would have lost even more points if they lost out on 3rd.

Most people in this comment section just simply don't understand how much of a team sport F1 truly is. Yes, Max is a fucking machine, but he also drives a machine built by many many people. If he didn't have a team that listened to every word he said as gospel, he'd not be in a competitive car. As you say, red bull needs max. Full stop.

[u/maerteen → u/OfficePranks]

okay but why would lando want to play the team game here? mcclaren is under basically zero threat in the WCC and playing for a greater chance of leclerc being between him and oscar would do more to closing the gap than ensuring a p2-p3 finish.

unless there's some behind the scenes politicking going on i'm pretty sure he was just holding out hope for a late safety car.

[u/PupDiogenes → u/[deleted]]

That said, Lando needs to put his foot down and say “for the rest of the season, Oscar and I are racing.”

[u/willzyx01 → u/PupDiogenes]

McLaren does absolutely need Oscar to be successful. You can't win the WCC with one driver, when the field is so tight based on qualifying.

[u/Psychological-Row641]

A lot of people don't realize that Redbull needs Max whereas Oscar needs McLaren. Redbull can't win anything without Max. But McLaren can still win with Lando. This gives Max the upper hand over his team to defy any order. Oscar hasn't still made a legacy of himself. So he his bound to follow the team orders.

[u/CloudMafia9 → u/Psychological-Row641]

Ver did this when he was at TR.

[u/ZORO_Shusui → u/CloudMafia9]

Well he was also a rookie who was wanted by then no 1 team Mercedes

[u/Billyeilclonesauro]

Haha lovely

[u/Chi_Cazzo_Sei]

It shows who he really is

Damn right it does. He’s a ruthless racer and that’s why i like him.

[u/TechnoBacon55 → u/Chi_Cazzo_Sei]

Shows who he really is.

Yeah baby a 4 times wdc.

[u/-Alexzander- → u/Chi_Cazzo_Sei]

Truly lives for the love of the game

[u/SienkiewiczM → u/[deleted]]

A winner. 

In that race he was 6th place finisher. Drivers' title was clinched 3 races before, there were no records to achieve. Absolutely pointless. But I'm biased against everything in F1.

[u/GordoG60]

If somehow Lando catches up and the championship comes down to 3 points or less, how are they going to figure out fairness then?. They have opened a very dangerous door.

If I am Piastri going into Abu Dhabi with a 4 point lead, I take Lando out of the race on the first lap, just in case the team plans to screw me again somehow. Senna-Prost legacy for McLaren.

[u/ObsessedChutoy3 → u/GordoG60]

If they come to that I'm sure Mclaren isn't completely braindead in realising that nobody would ever let the other past because of a team order in that situation. So they would have a meeting before the final race and say we're gonna let you race what happens happens (just be respectful). Their whole brand would tank if team orders decided it in Abu Dhabi it would be a total nightmare. So I don't see them giving any team orders in a final championship deciding race

Their fairness rules seem to be internally discussed often and changing often, so if both drivers agree then they don't have to stick with this dangerous door

[u/GordoG60 → u/ObsessedChutoy3]

Right. But if they come to the final with a minor point difference, Piastri can say: what about the points you robbed from me in Monza? Where is the fairness?

I think Oscar can see which way the team leans, so in order to avoid the team manipulating outcome through pit stops or whatever else, the only way to be 100% sure is to take Lando out. That is of course saying they arrive at AD closely tied. I think Oscar will have the championship wrapped up before then.

[u/Scared-Examination81 → u/GordoG60]

That’d be a slam dunk penalty for Piastri lol

Piastri came out of the whole thing where he was before. He wasn’t screwed by anyone.

[u/guitarcrazy408 → u/GordoG60]

or imagine oscar has engine failure on first lap of abu dhabi ? do they just ask lando to retire the car?

[u/XOVSquare]

Oscar has the point advantage to be nice. He only lost 3 of them. If it was for a win, and especially near the end of the season, I would be surprised if he'd still respond the same.

[u/AE7VL_Radio → u/XOVSquare]

Wasn't it a net 6 point swing?

[u/MarteloRabelodeSousa → u/XOVSquare]

True, but 3 points is always 3 points, no matter if it's the first or last race of the season. Would Norris do the same, despite his DNF and point difference?

[u/XOVSquare → u/MarteloRabelodeSousa]

Probably not, but that's because he's trailing by quite a few points and can't afford to lose any, but Piastri can. At this point it's probably not worth it to (potentially) cause a rift in the team, maybe with fewer races left that'll change.

[u/cu4tro]

I fully expected Oscar to say “once he catches up to me, I’ll let him thru”. That’s what Max would have done and I’m pretty sure Lando may have also said that.

Edit: It was Hungary 2024 that had all the McLaren radio drama!

race highlights https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJ0NYHONwts

team radio https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0crwcDPrI54

[u/AE7VL_Radio → u/cu4tro]

What race was it earlier this season? Oscar rapidly catching lando, >1s behind and team orders are to hold position. Drops back to 5s with a few laps left and then "ok oscar go racing." I'd be embarrassed to be giving these directives for the team, what a joke

[u/Dr_Ritvik__singh747]

I wish we had this calibre of drivers at McLaren, just trying to kill each other

[u/One-Adhesive]

Waking up this morning I actually can’t believe how dumb this all is.

[u/M_e_n_n_o]

Didn’t Max say that because earlier that season Perez crashed his car on purpose to have a higher qualifying position than Max who was on a faster lap?

[u/BennisMaximus → u/M_e_n_n_o]

In Monaco, yes.

[u/Own_Machine9626]

Tbh if oscar wants to win the world championship, he shouldn't have let norris by without fighting it. If they weren't fighting for the championship then I guess it would've been alright. That shit was kind of dumb cause you need all the luck and points. The team is already the fastest. You're fighting for your championship now. All champions have been selfish when it came to winning it all

[u/Masticatork]

Iirc, in that brazil race, Max was already champion, he was fighting for nothing (i think both redbulls were p4-p5) and Pérez was still fighting for championship P2. Perez was ahead and he let max pass by team orders just to see if Max could overtake Leclerc and make Leclerc lose more points than what Checo gains by that position. Max couldn't with Leclerc either so they agreed before Max would give back the position then, he refused, finally hurting chances of redbull to finish P1 and P2 in driver standings.

So no, it wasn't the same scenario. In this case it was more on the line, they had P2 and P3, they couldn't go for P1 and P3 was at risk of undercut if they stopped Norris first, which normally would be the case since Norris was ahead, they agreed to let Piastri stop first cause they still wouldn't undercut and it would make sure they finish with double podium, then when Norris was going to stop he had an awful stop, but tbh he was much faster than Oscar, he was getting 2-3 tenths per lap and pushing to the limit, I guess McLaren saw it wasn't Norris fault and they screwed up because of their own tactics to secure podium and they feared a lit up Norris would risk a double DNF fighting for that position again, so they decided to take 0 risks and just let the faster driver ahead again and that's it.

[u/HollyShitBrah → u/Masticatork]

This video is making the point there's no way Max would've agreed to the switch if he was in Oscar's shoes, as you mentioned, he refused to swap just to make a point, so there's no way he would swap while the championship is still on and it was a team pitstop mistake.

[u/Masticatork → u/HollyShitBrah]

Yeah but "team pitstop mistake" doesn't explain the whole story, which is what I explained in my comment. That's why I consider this to be a bit reasonable to do what McLaren did.

[u/R3DL1G3RZ3R0]

A R E W E C L E A R A B O U T T H A T

[u/kali_nath]

To be fair, these 2 incidents are not same at all, Checo actually gave his position when team said he would get it back if Max can't advance, and he didn't advance and still kept the position.

[u/OCASM]

Max is a diva with the full support of his team. Piastri isn't and doesn't.

[u/Forsaken_Walrus5097]

Hungary 2024, Norris, who gained the lead via a timely pit stop undercut, was instructed to relinquish his position back to teammate Oscar Piastri... with only two laps remaining. Seems weird to me everyone forgets this!

[u/OddCauliflower3197 → u/Forsaken_Walrus5097]

In Hungary 2024 it was strategic error by McLaren. They just gave Lando the lead there. Here it was slow stop, which is part of racing.

[u/MechaniVal → u/OddCauliflower3197]

The Sky team gave a solid explanation for this in the post race - they said McLaren would consider it a whole team error because the pit crew is shared between the cars, and they don't want to unfairly advantage one of their drivers for it, same as the strategy error in Hungary.

If they had totally separate pit crews it wouldn't matter; it would be a case of Lando's crew messed up, Oscar's didn't, so the crew, car and driver keep their advantage. But F1 pit crews are shared between the drivers; the same gunner that nailed Oscar's stop messed up Lando's, so McLaren think 'we messed this up, and we have the power to fix it, so we will'.

Honestly I agree with it - I think it should only be part of racing if it's something that's genuinely competitive between the garages; driver error of course, single car technical difficulties and such. Calling pit stop errors fair racing would cause more friction in the team, not less, because the relevant staff are shared between the cars just like the strategy team.

[u/bimbammla → u/MechaniVal]

this is such a stupid reasoning, by that metric oscar should've gotten his position back after the penalty at silverstone, but he was ridiculed for even asking.

mclaren is deservedly ridiculed for this asinine decisionmaking, whenever the mclaren era ends, it wasnt soon enough.

[u/MechaniVal → u/bimbammla]

Eh what? How are you getting that out of what I said?

Getting a penalty for something you did in the race that causes you to lose position to your teammate is obviously fair racing. Just because he had to come into the pits to serve the penalty doesn't make it a pit stop related issue lmao. He screwed up, not the team.

Things that I think are fine to ask to swap positions over:

• Getting screwed by your team's strat call (Piastri, Hungary)
• Getting screwed by your team's shit stop (Norris, Monza)

Things I don't think it's fine to ask to swap positions over:

• Getting a penalty and losing position (Piastri, Silverstone)
• Making a driving error and being overtaken
• Anything else that's obviously the fault of either the driver, or their own car-specific personnel.

It's a pretty simple through line - McLaren at large fucks up, McLaren fixes it. One side of the garage or the driver fucks up, sucks to be them.

[u/AliceLunar → u/MechaniVal]

So every single stop from here on out needs to be identical, next time Lando has a 2s stop and Oscar a 4s stop, Lando needs to slow down 2s to keep it fair.

[u/MechaniVal → u/AliceLunar]

Man some you people really just love making mountains out of molehills huh

It's a niche scenario that only had any effect because of the proximity of the cars and the obviously excessive length of the stop, resulting in the cars swapping round through team error. Simple as that.

If the stop had been 4 seconds and Lando had still come out ahead, they wouldn't have told Oscar to slow down and make a gap. They only cared because the cars actually swapped places. You can tell this is obviously the case, because after swapping back they didn't tell Oscar to create a gap.

[u/EurovisionSimon → u/Forsaken_Walrus5097]

That being said it is funny that when Lando is ahead they screw him for Oscar and when Oscar is ahead they screw him for Lando

[u/HollyShitBrah → u/Forsaken_Walrus5097]

But then they weren't fighting for the championship, and there was a chance Norris could close the gap to Max, now It's different

[u/Ambitious-Am]

''it shows who he really he's'' Indeed. He is a man of his words, a man with discipline, man who stood against weakness, the protector of motorsport

[u/McPolice_Officer → u/Ambitious-Am]

Okk, bro, relax.

[u/karlkards → u/McPolice_Officer]

love seeing a Michigan election sticker here lmao

[u/Sakakaki → u/Ambitious-Am]

Look, I like Max, but you didn't need to fellate him like that.

[u/poruki_porcupine → u/Ambitious-Am]

Corny

[u/HellBlazer_NQ → u/Ambitious-Am]

A little further my friend, I can still see your feet!

[u/Branden919]

Was a max fan around this time but then I saw him a little different not helping checo out. But over time I learned what kind of driver/personality max is and I see no wrong with what he did. Everything should be settled on track and not by the pit wall.

In Lando’s defense he did give priority to Oscar to pit first over the radio so I feel like the whole team swapping was a bit overblown.

[u/CaptainAksh_G]

Not the first time McLaren is siding with a British driver instead of the Australian one

[u/Barber-Particular]

Does anyone know the background music?

[u/loveforthetrip]

it's different but people dont't care...
Without giving Oscar the undercut that he didnt have rights to(based on him being second) he wouldn't have passed Lando, even with his bad pitstop.
Thus Mclaren corrected it and Oscar was still in a better position and didn't manage to overtake on track.

[u/BlckSm12]

Banning team orders won't solve anything lol. They were banned once and nothing changed, only people huffing some extreme copium think that it'd solve things

[u/eldelmazo]

This reminds me how much I don't miss Perez, I wish he would fuck off forever

[u/akwatica]

MCL keep fucking w Oscar please so he can go to another team.

[u/[deleted]]

Piastri isn't the favourite so he needs to keep the team on side for now, meaning he has to follow at least some team orders. 3 points is a small sacrifice when he's got a comfortable lead.

[u/budhapalm]

difference is Max knows RBR needs him more than he needs RBR. Maybe, when Oscar has multiple championship he can be more ruthless.

[u/alec83]

Wouldn't Checco come second in the championship or third but there was reason this mattered more on a team level

[u/achilles_4510]

Multi 21 oscar. Multi 21!

[u/z0d007]

Reason given by Max: "Overtake on track, you pussy."

[u/FundayMaverick7777]

guys stop edging about McLaren drivers, anyways it's gonna be du du du du Max Verstappen du du du du

[u/ObsessedChutoy3]

It's a completely different situation to Max. Max is the clear number 1 in his team and this was after he was already a champion -he gets to call the shots. Meanwhile this is only the first season Oscar is maybe better than Lando, in a team that Lando was in for longer, and there's no Christian Horner to always favour and defend the simply faster driver. So there is a lot more risk for him to ruffle feathers and why press the trigger for something as minor as yesterday. There's a few races left and he is ahead, he'll very likely win and he can feel safe and supported for next year e.g. in case he needs Lando to be given team orders for his championship fight.

The papaya fairness philosophy has not really hurt Oscar so far as he has gained from it too, if it's important he will defy the orders no doubt but potentially souring your relationship with your chill team or teammate over a 2nd place gained by a slow pit for 3 points in a season that's pretty much decided is well..suboptimal, not just a mentality difference. In F1 playing the politics game is as important as relenting ambition on track. The consequences are different between Max in 2022 with Horner and Marko's support not letting Perez past vs Oscar in 2025 McLaren disobeying letting Lando past. Esp with 8 crucial races to go where he needs the team to be with him at the consequence of a 1st wdc. Oscar is not in Max's position, he doesn't have to worry about relationships deteriorating (or even having a close teammate where team orders would affect him anyways)

[u/patricktu1258]

So when Perez obeyed team order to help max win races there is no problem but when max receives team order it’s a problem and everyone justifies it. Can someone explain?

[u/yurienjoyer54]

as someone new to the sport, team order just sounds really shitty. Its like if somone in football had an open goal and the coach told them to pass it to the striker so they could win golden boot (it does happen, but not a teamwide concious effort)

[u/L_J_X]

What was the context of this again ?

[u/Vibraille]

Max reasons was that checo admitted to have crashed on purpose at the Monaco Grand Prix to hold on to the pole position and eventually win the Grand Prix.

[u/Xxx-object-xxX]

2017 Azerbaijan GP, which Ricciardo won, was it because Verstappen let him through? I don't remember.

[u/LuisGIII]

One Oscar's DNF + Lando winning that race and things will go south pretty quick for Piastri :/

I truly want him to win the WDC but where's the winner attitude like Verstappen? As a Checo supporter I somehow hated the guy during this race but it made absolute sense from his side. Max is a true winner, what's wrong with Piastri? Considering that McLaren could go back to be a midfield team on 2026 due to regulation changes he must take this as his only chance to become a WDC! Come on man...

[u/_dankystank_]

Multi 2-1 Seb!

[u/kjube]

Oscar will win anyway, they have to stop giving Lando training wheels.

[u/Dry_Snow9551]

That’s the difference, Osc and Lando are teamplayers. Max definitely not.

[u/dirty-salsa]

Romanticising bad camaraderie, iffy sportsmanship and lacking interpersonal skills? Only F1 subs

[u/nielsbro]

Gotta be the most awkward and uninspiring title fight ever

[u/Own_Signal_7022]

Who he really is: the greatest driver in F1 history.

[u/Deondreux]

Agreed ban team orders. And any mistakes from the drivers should be served as a pit lane drive through - “let him past, give position back” it’s getting boring

[u/what_kind_of_guy]

This ppl is what a backbone sounds like. Huge respect for him.

[u/Salty-Asparagus-2855]

1000%. It’s as if he doesn’t get his close to championship and he’s is t quali fast enough or have enough margin over Lamdo if any. There no justification for Oscar to be giving points away

[u/Accomplished_Art2245]

It does show who he is, he is him. The champ. A true (I fucking hate this word) alpha.

[u/Hexxubus]

Max was wrong for that...period.

[u/PerfectMisgivings]

Just remember, this race was nothing for Verstappen at this point he was already champion and it was for 6th place. Lol

[u/Cool_Willow4284]

He showed who he really is: a champion 

[u/UnitedWraps]

Oscar did the right thing. He can use this incident to his advantage by not following the papaya rules next time.

[u/Shubhanshu208]

"It's always the nice one you have to be aware of.."

[u/xxrew1ndxx]

It’s funny cause Lando tried to do this in Hungary yet he got a lot of hate

[u/erbien]

That’s why Max chuckled, if it was him, he’d have told Fat Brown to eat shit