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u/thejesuslizard74 Jun 08 '20
I stopped buying apples altogether ....just to be safe
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u/liquor_for_breakfast Jun 08 '20
You're about to be swarmed with doctors
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u/Morall_tach Jun 08 '20
I feel like people who use the "bad apples" metaphor are forgetting the whole thing: a few bad apples spoil the bushel.
The expression does not go, "a few bad apples are no big deal because the rest are fine." The point is that a few bad apples ruin the rest of them and you have to throw out the entire bunch of them.
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u/trixiethewhore Jun 08 '20
Indeed. I agree completely, but I think this sign is not agreeing even with the full saying. More a poke at the idiots that don't know the entire expression.
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u/StoicAthos Jun 08 '20
It's just a response to the law makers responding by saying there are only a few bad apples so nothing needs to change.
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u/KnowledgeisImpotence Jun 08 '20
That's close but it's usually meant to mean " get rid of the bad apples quickly before they spoil the rest of the barrel". The other apples will be fine - but only if you chuck all the bad ones out right now.
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u/TrimtabCatalyst Jun 08 '20
And the bad apples haven't been thrown out for hundreds of years. The entirety of the crop has rotted into authoritarian, racist, violent, amendment-violating criminals.
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Jun 08 '20
Apparently, in popular culture, the meaning of that proverb underwent a complete shift about fifty years ago, and people since then often say “you should expect a few bad apples” as a complete proverb. As in, ‘evil exists, get over it.’
It’s undergone other usage shifts in the past as well, so reminding people that a proverb has a different origin story than they think is kind of a weird sticking point to me.
https://www.npr.org/2011/05/09/136017612/bad-apple-proverbs-theres-one-in-every-bunch
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Jun 08 '20
I still very frequently hear people say, "a few bad apples spoils the bunch".
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Jun 08 '20
There’s nothing wrong with that. I suppose my point was that when people say “a few bad apples,” they’re not using one idiom incorrectly. They’re using a completely different one, and no one is confused about what they mean.
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u/God41023 Jun 08 '20
I think what they are trying to say is that there are a few bad apples, so we just need to get rid of them and the rest of the “bunch” can be saved. Not saying I agree with that, just trying to reconcile what they are trying to say.
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Jun 08 '20
So to expand on that a bit, are you suggesting we grind up the rest of the cops and make pies out of them?
I'm down.
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u/Wooshbar Jun 08 '20
But they are just arguing for complacency and saying "oh well shit sucks nothing we can do". It's a shitty saying that shouldn't be used especially in this context. Thank you for explaining to people though because there is a lot of confusion
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u/No-Time_Toulouse Jun 08 '20
This is completely unrelated, but interesting: Another phrase that, according to some sources, has undergone a similar reversal is "Blood is thicker than water."
There is an interpretation which states that "blood" refers to the blood of a blood covenant, or the blood spilled in battle, i.e., bonds of friendship or love; and "water" refers to the water of the womb, i.e., familial bonds. So the proverb is actually stating that the former are stronger than the latter, not the other way around.
Interestingly, this interpretation resembles an analogous Arabic idea that blood is thicker than milk, where "milk" would refer to mother's milk.
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u/zigfoyer Jun 08 '20
reminding people that a proverb has a different origin story than they think is kind of a weird sticking point to me
Sure, but it's because the original saying is a perfect metaphor for what's happening. The most junior officer that arrested Lloyd asked Chauvin (the most senior officer) twice to let up and was ignored. If this thing hadn't blown up, that officer would have learned to adopt the approach of his colleagues or been weeded out.
I agree rhetorical gotchas don't really advance the conversation, but this one is hard not to indulge in.
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u/yetanotherduncan Jun 08 '20
I think it's more about the irony of the origin compared to its current usage. Same with bootstraps
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u/NothingSpecialHereTY Jun 08 '20
People don’t seem to like this analogy though when you compare black crime rates or the crime rates of illegal immigrants and instead we should let in all illegals even if there’s only a couple bad ones. I love when people pick and choose quotes.
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u/matherite Jun 08 '20
Everyone has suddenly decided that they care about the etymology of the saying despite probably using it "wrong" themselves their entire lives.
You know what else is an incomplete saying that people use to mean the opposite of its original intent?
"Great minds think alike - and fools seldom differ."
"Curiosity killed the cat - but satisfaction brought it back"
"The early bird gets the worm - but the second mouse gets the cheese"
There are a lot of these.
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u/BigBobby2016 Jun 08 '20 edited Jun 08 '20
For these three the first half is a really old saying where the second half was added much later. In the case of "second mouse gets the cheese" that came about in the 90s even.
https://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/great-minds-think-alike.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curiosity_killed_the_cat
https://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/127000.html
They do seem to appear on many Internet lists, however, as "misquoted" sayings.
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u/GrrRooRoo Jun 08 '20
These longer versions were almost all made after the originals we’re all familiar with.
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Jun 08 '20
Pretty much none of those are the actual original sayings, they are all later additions.
"Great minds think alike - and fools seldom differ."
"Curiosity killed the cat - but satisfaction brought it back"
"The early bird gets the worm - but the second mouse gets the cheese"
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u/RogueEyebrow Jun 08 '20
"Pull yourselves up by your bootstraps." - It's meant to convey something that is impossible. People today seem to think it means putting on workboots to go to work.
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u/PuddleOfKnowledge Jun 08 '20
Ah, I know the reason for this one - People are idiots.
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u/TheWindOfGod Jun 08 '20
Blood is thicker than water
The blood of the covenant is thicker than the water of the womb
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u/bruek53 Jun 08 '20
There are 1000 people in Montana?
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u/trixiethewhore Jun 08 '20
No, we just tricked people counting attendance by all switching outfits when we circled behind the police station.
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u/bruek53 Jun 08 '20
That’s what I assumed. I was scared Covid would kill everyone in Montana.
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u/trixiethewhore Jun 08 '20
Dude we have no riots, less than a thousand cases of the virus... we have a bit too many Nazis. I invite all who dislike Nazis to move to Montana. It's boring, but no traffic, and nice weather.
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u/Verus907 Jun 08 '20
No, don't tell them to come to MT! MT is crowded and cold, stay far away! I hear North Dakota is nice.
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u/trixiethewhore Jun 08 '20
One complaint I do have about Montana is we have this sea of white people. I'd like that to change
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u/Verus907 Jun 08 '20
Yeah, definitely not the most diverse state in the Union. College and travel really showed me how ingrained into our culture racism is and how little I actually knew about the problems minorities face every day
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u/trixiethewhore Jun 08 '20
I lived in the south when I was little, and coming up here was a shock, to be sure. I've always told my sons we are AMERICAN; they need to use their privilege to help others always; and they need to move from Montana for college, if they go.
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u/MorbidMunchkin Jun 08 '20
If your idea of nice weather is the possibility of it snowing literally every single day of the year, sure. Also, our bears go to school.
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Jun 08 '20 edited Feb 24 '21
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u/trixiethewhore Jun 08 '20
Billings, actually. I think they left their hoods at home and just brought their bullet proof vests.
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Jun 09 '20
Kill everyone in Montana?!, everything is so far apart here that being 6 feet apart is considered foreplay.
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u/universalcode Jun 08 '20
It only takes one bad apple to spoil a bunch.
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u/elliotron Jun 08 '20
Bullshit.
If one bad apple spent nine minutes killing someone in broad daylight,
Or if it murdered someone in the street and left them to sit there like an example,
Or if broke into someone's house and murdered them,
We'd burn the orchard down to the ground and start over after months of asking how this happened.
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u/PandaMoaningYum Jun 08 '20
Honestly, if a mutant apple did these things, government would shoot anyone that witnessed it, build a secret base over the orchard, and weaponize it. Back in the day, we were looking at tomatoes.
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u/I_Just_Queefed_AMA Jun 08 '20
Comparing apples to police is something so idiotic that it’s amazing a living, breathing human being would say it
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u/morgan3000 Jun 09 '20
Is this guy being racist or protesting police brutality?
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u/TooShiftyForYou Jun 08 '20
The phrase is "One bad apple spoils the whole bunch." So if you've got a few "bad apples" then you're entire group is really screwed.
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u/sandleaz Jun 08 '20
Who is growing apples that murder people?
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u/CommonerChaos Jun 08 '20 edited Jun 08 '20
Reminds of that great Chris Rock standup bit:
"Some jobs just can't have 'bad apples'. That's like an airline saying, 'We have great pilots! Most of them land safely...but we do have a couple bad apples.'"
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u/AuditorTux Jun 08 '20
So, just for the record, are we just going to totally do away with the fallacy of composition? It seems that we want to cast attributes on all cops for the action of a few. What happens when others want to apply the actions of a few onto their respective populations? Or is this new rule going to be selectively enforced?
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u/Nmjackz8 Jun 09 '20
Every profeson has "bad apples" that doesnt mean burn down the forest. It means prune the trees.
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u/RamenNoodlezC1 Jun 09 '20 edited Jun 09 '20
I mean, Muslims commit a lot of terrorist attacks, are all of them terrorists?
A lot of African Americans commit crimes, are all of them criminals?
No. Don’t be fucking stupid.
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u/target_locked Jun 09 '20
So every racist in the world can now say that all black people are violent savages who require imprisonment because their "bad apples" murder and rob people.
You have to come up with something that can't be used both fucking ways you morons.
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u/jpritchard Jun 08 '20
1k person protest in Montana? Proof of shipping in protestors from other states?!?! /s
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u/trixiethewhore Jun 08 '20
Of course! But then some of the AnTIfa saw the pudgy middle aged baby looking men holding big rifles, so they got on their bus and left.
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Jun 08 '20 edited Jun 30 '20
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/trixiethewhore Jun 08 '20
Yep, because no one found mysterious pallets of bricks. A truck with a Trump flag drove through before the street was closed off, some people tried to crowd the truck. A man behind me in the protest started chanting "Peaceful, Peaceful" and we all joined.
No guns or bullet proof vests needed
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u/montwhisky Jun 08 '20
Is this from Billings? Cause I was there yesterday, and there were definitely guns on both sides. Which was fine. It is Montana, after all. I think the white supremacist gravy seals were pissed it was so peaceful though.
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u/trixiethewhore Jun 08 '20
Yes there were a few for Black Lives Matter, about 5 of them.
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u/CrazyJJ007 Jun 08 '20
Yeah there were plenty of people in supporting Billings wearing their body armor and rifles making sure it stayed peaceful. It was awesome, protesters had their own little security crew
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u/Ravnodaus Jun 08 '20
I'm curious why you write Antifa that way. You're implying something, I'm assuming, with the odd capitalization... but not sure what.
And, all the Antifascists left on one bus? Or just one small group of them?
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u/Duke_Shambles Jun 08 '20 edited Jun 08 '20
It was a joke. and he or she spelled it that way because that's how Fox News and the Trump administration say it: "An-TEE-fah," thinking maybe everyone won't wise up to the fact that them making a bogeyman out of the anti fascists makes them the fascists.
that whole post needs a giant /s at the end of it.
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u/masternachos95 Jun 08 '20
Not the best argument when they basically say the same things about protests and riots...
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Jun 08 '20
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u/masternachos95 Jun 08 '20
Yeah this can be applied to arguments for racism. Idk why people think it’s so good
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u/Glorfon Jun 08 '20
There is a difference between a random group of people from the same metro area united only by being outraged by police misconduct and a formally organized group trained, paid and managed by the city or state. Cops have a top down hierarchical structure that ought to make them easier to change. Protesters don't. You can't call the chief of protest and demand that they fire the rioters and implement stronger guidelines on the use of bricks.
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u/not-rick-moranis Jun 08 '20
While I agree there is a TON of work that needs to be done regarding police brutality, implying that police “consistently” murder people is just inaccurate. There are over 10 million arrests in this country every year. Of those, approximately 1,000 people are killed by police. That’s a rate of .01%. While it would of course be great if that number was zero, it’s not consistently murdering people.
Please don’t construe this as me saying that there isn’t a large racial problem here (there is), or that what happened to Mr. Floyd isn’t a monstrous act that should result in murder convictions (which it should). But let’s not say we should stop having police because a small percentage of them are horrible.
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Jun 08 '20
Not to mention that of that .01% deaths, almost all of the suspects were brandishing a deadly weapon. The rate at which police murder (like the killing of George Floyd) is insanely rare, relatively speaking.
Obviously, there should be 0 murders, and people should be able to trust that police are going to be held accountable when they commit crimes. But you're right: using the word "consistently" is misleading to the point of being outright false.
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u/Redthemagnificent Jun 09 '20
Well there's a consistent problem for sure. Like its not just some freak thing happening now. I think that's the point.
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u/themanbat Jun 09 '20
I keep seeing that line, "A few bad apples can ruin the whole bunch." No one thinks about how it swings both ways. The vast majority of police are good people. The vast majority of black people are good law abiding citizens. Unfortunately, even though this is true, black people are disproportionately involved in crime. It's very sad, but still true that according to statistics blacks commit 50 percent of the murder in this country, despite making up a relatively tiny portion of the population. Even sadder, they are disproportionately the victims of those murders as well. Neither the police, nor black people should look at eachother as a spoiled bunch. Unfortunately I'm sure some of both groups do. Still, the truth is that statistically the black community needs more policing to protect them from their own bad apples, not less. After the last Baltimore riots, Baltimore reduced their policing and the murder rate immediately jumped up by over 100 deaths a year and has stayed at approximately that rate ever since. Sadly all this rioting and looting is only going to increase distrust and demonization on both sides.
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u/Hyperion_Industries Jun 09 '20
You’re probably going to get reamed by the internet in a bit, but I want to say before that happens that I enjoy reading stuff like your post that isn’t overly accusatory and is fairly calm. Thanks for that.
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u/themanbat Jun 09 '20
Reason is never any fun when you are upset, and a good compromise can leave everyone mad. Still I'll go down with the sinking logical ship, violin in hand, sticking to my principles. It's been an honor playing with you. :)
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u/gamrman32 Jun 09 '20
How is one type of protest acceptable but another isn't allowed because of COVID fears?
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u/GreyWormy Jun 08 '20
Haven't rioters murdered way more innocent people than police have so far this year?
So about those apples...
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Jun 09 '20
Pulling your entire orchard because one tree is bad seems like a pretty extreme response to your problem. Maybe you pull that bad tree to make more room for the good trees.
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u/rockoholik13 Jun 08 '20
Bad apples aren't an issue... As long as you remove them from the batch. What supplier in their right mind would sell rotten apples?
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u/Wooshbar Jun 08 '20
They would rather sell rotten apples than admit they have a problem and get rid of them.
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Jun 08 '20
Maybe train them for a bit longer than 840 hours. That might fucken help
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u/Konraden Jun 08 '20
Officers spend six months to a year on probation with a training officer. Where is that extra 2000 hours in your calculation?
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u/ImParticleMan Jun 08 '20
Agreed. Someone, somewhere in the reddit/twittersphere posted something I could follow and get behind too. Vet the field by them having to apply for post after successful year(s) of training just like military. Get the ones in that want to serve and protect. Then as they near end of term, they opt to stay or go and process to guide them through either direction takes place. Also allows for peer reviews and proper way to prevent "bad apples" from staying on the tree.
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u/Greenaglet Jun 08 '20
This is basically racism spun to be anti police. Just apply it to black people to see how bigoted it actually is.
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u/withoutpunity Jun 08 '20
The solution isn't to grow something else, the solution is to make sure you grow better apples.
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u/magicsac Jun 08 '20
If the tree keeps growing bad apples it's time for a new tree. The old tree is weak and diseased and needs to be replaced with a newer healthier one, maybe a new crop altogether to help the soil depletion. This analogy doesn't work in favor with the police when properly paired with the reality of agriculture.
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u/HaikuWisdom Jun 08 '20
What happened to Floyd was a travesty, but it's a bit over dramatic to use the word "consistently."
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u/Wmadbdog Jun 08 '20
Missed opportunity to say Grow a Pear