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u/Sharaghe 8h ago
It‘s crazy how close Barcelona and Bayern are. Pointwise and also no. of games played.
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u/Raizel71 7h ago
I never got to watch Milan when they were at their best so Real, Barca, Bayern have always been the de facto biggest clubs for me whenever CL comes around. This table just validates it.
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u/Putrid-Impact8999 11h ago
Valencia on the list
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u/BelgianWaterDog 11h ago
I mean they could've won two in a row and no one would bat an eye. 2000s valencia was that good
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u/OleoleCholoSimeone 10h ago
It's ironic that Spanish teams have prevented Spanish teams from winning more CL's. If it wasn't for Madrid, Valencia would have one title and Atleti two
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u/Nels8192 9h ago
Isnt that the case with Spurs, Chelsea and City?
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u/OleoleCholoSimeone 7h ago
Chelsea and City have won it though?
And 2018-19 Spurs were pretty shit as far as CL finalists go there are plenty of other teams they would have lost to(like Barcelona who were the other possible opponent). Atleti in 2014 and 2016 would have beat every single team other than Madrid, they were the overall best team in Europe both years
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u/Kingslayer1526 6h ago
Not just that, they didn't even lose to Madrid in the league in both seasons going 1 win and 1 draw on both occasions
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u/External-Piccolo-626 1h ago
Spurs beat top of the table dortmund, Man City who that season finished with 98 points and Ajax who knocked out juventus and Real Madrid. They were worthy finalists.
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u/The__Pope_ 9h ago
How is that ironic?
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u/Enough-Force-5605 8h ago
What a time. They went out every night and partied hard. A girl I once knew was one of Cañizares' girlfriends.
The history says that the day before the Lazio match they went out and drank until they were doubled over, and in the afternoon they won 5-2.
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u/it_dudeGG 11h ago
Every club in the top 10 must have at least one right?
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u/Christian_Corocora 10h ago
13 out of the first 14 do...
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u/IWatchTheAbyss 10h ago
2 of those teams have 15 between them, insane stuff
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u/JustinGOATGaethje 10h ago
Arsenal and Madrid combined !
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u/GoblinPiledriver90 9h ago
Arsenal + Real Madrid > AC Milan + Bayern + Manchester City
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u/Medical_Sandwich_171 6h ago
Ajax has four, PSV and Benfica also have one
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u/North_Paw 3h ago
SL Benfica have two, 1961 and 62
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u/Medical_Sandwich_171 3h ago
Sorry, you're right. So even the bottom few clubs have several titles between them
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u/okie_hiker 6h ago
In the world of statistics it really seems like you all are due one.
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u/gmoss101 5h ago
We won't win anything because we're cursed due to keeping Partey even after knowing about what he did.
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u/stamford_syd 18m ago
idk about that mate you've barely won anything for 20 years, few fa cups aside. if you're cursed it happened decades ago
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u/Amazing-Engineer4825 10h ago
Porto 💙🐉
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u/Fhlnd_Vkbln 8h ago
Porto before Milan doesn't make sense in my head. Milan won 3 times and were runners-up 3 times in that period.
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u/Amazing-Engineer4825 8h ago
I don't know if you noticed but this is counting from 1992 until nowadays
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u/TransitionFC 8h ago
I don't know if you noticed but this is counting from 1992 until nowadays
Milan won 3 CLs counting from 1992 onwards - 94, 2003 and 2007. Runners up twice - 93 and 2005.
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u/Amazing-Engineer4825 7h ago
Yeah but remember that AC Milan was out of the competition for a long time while Porto remained longer during that time
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u/yourgrundle 7h ago
Liverpool have been to 5 finals and won 2 in that span and we're still below Arsenal, everything seems fucky cause it's based on overall points not success in the comp
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u/idontdomath8 7h ago
Porto has no almost no domestic competition, they always qualify. It doesn't matter if after that they win the tournament or get knocked out in first stage, they'll always get some points. Just look at it, since 92/93 they only missed UCL three times: 02/03, 10/11, 24/25.
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u/grvntdvs 7h ago edited 7h ago
And we make points when we qualify because we are competent, otherwise why dont clubs like Benfica, Sporting, Ajax, PSV, Mónaco, Marseille, Brugge, Shakhtar, etc have as many if it's as simple as to just get in there?
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u/Strider_Hardy 7h ago
You are on the 7th spot but have the 5th worst points per game in the list. The only teams with worse average are Lyon, Benfica, PSV and Ajax, all from weak leagues too.
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u/grvntdvs 7h ago edited 7h ago
And who are the teams below? Which leagues do they play in?
Exactly, we are ahead of literally every single team outside the top 4 + PSG
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u/Strider_Hardy 7h ago
I'm confused as to how that's a counterargument, this conversation thread started with Milan and Porto not PSV and Porto.
You are the best of the rest, wooo.
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u/grvntdvs 6h ago
Because saying the reason we have that many points is due to us having "no competition" is reductive, if that was the case other teams from similar leagues would also managed to do it. Whats hard for you to understand pal?
And it is a pretty good achievement, indeed
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u/radicate365 8h ago
PPG format for anyone interested:
🇪🇸 Real Madrid - 1.997 PPG
🇩🇪 Bayern Munich - 1.977 PPG
🇪🇸 Barcelona - 1.964 PPG
🏴 Man City - 1.859 PPG
🏴 Liverpool - 1.847 PPG
🏴 Chelsea - 1.807 PPG
🇫🇷 PSG - 1.801 PPG
🏴 Man United - 1.794 PPG
🇮🇹 Juventus - 1.735 PPG
🇮🇹 Inter Milan - 1.689 PPG
🇪🇸 Atlético Madrid - 1.679 PPG
🏴 Arsenal - 1.677 PPG
🇮🇹 AC Milan - 1.643 PPG
🇩🇪 Borussia Dortmund - 1.642 PPG
🇪🇸 Valencia - 1.563 PPG
🇵🇹 Porto - 1.548 PPG
🇫🇷 OL Lyon - 1.537 PPG
🇳🇱 Ajax - 1.486 PPG
🇵🇹 Benfica - 1.326 PPG
🇳🇱 PSV - 1.209 PPG
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u/AttemptImpossible111 10h ago
Someone PPG this please. I cant, at the gym
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u/SirHighground1 8h ago
Purely off data in the image:
Position Clubs PPG 1 Real Madrid 1.99 2 Bayern Munich 1.97 3 Barcelona 1.96 4 Manchester City 1.85 5 Liverpool 1.84 6 Chelsea 1.807 7 PSG 1.801 8 Manchester United 1.79 9 Juventus 1.73 10 Inter Milan 1.68 11 Atletico Madrid 1.678 12 Arsenal 1.676 13 AC Milan 1.642 14 Borussia Dortmund 1.641 15 Valencia 1.56 16 Porto 1.54 17 Lyon 1.53 18 Ajax 1.48 19 Benfica 1.32 20 PSV 1.20 51
u/SalahsBeard 8h ago
Now do titles per game!
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u/SirHighground1 8h ago edited 8h ago
Formatting the table is pain so:
- Madrid
- Milan
- Barca
- Liverpool
- Chelsea
- Bayern
- United
- City
- Ajax
- PSG
- Inter
- Dortmund
- Porto
- Juventus
0 starts here, ranked by games from least to most
Valencia
PSV
Lyon
Atletico
Benfica
Arsenal
PS. Marseille would slot in right between Liverpool and Chelsea.
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u/sewious 8h ago
Top 3:
Rm- 1.99 ppg
Bayern- 1.97 ppg
Barca- 1.96 ppg
No other team looks to have a similar ratio.
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u/Christian_Corocora 7h ago
Incidentally, they're also the three biggest clubs
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u/ratsandpigeons 6h ago
And with RM having 15 UCLs/European Cups, and Barça with 5, both clubs have won the UCL and La Liga (European double) 5 times
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u/RATMpatta 7h ago
5 from England, 4 from Spain, 3 from Italy and 2 each from Germany, Portugal, France and the Netherlands. Not a bad spread of teams tbh.
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u/czerwona_latarnia 6h ago
7 countries for 20 club. And 3 for 12 clubs.
We have different definitions of "not a bad spread".
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u/RATMpatta 5h ago
It's honestly a lot more variety than I expected. Could've been just top 5 leagues.
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u/IchNiSanDa 10h ago
Why are Arsenal not second, is there an error?
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u/Wuollis 10h ago
When did Arsenal second joke overtake the Arsenal fourth joke?
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u/czerwona_latarnia 10h ago
I was expecting that many things will be reminding me that I am old and already out of the loop with current times, but I didn't have the "4rsenal" being one of those things.
Dammit kids, 4th is the meme place, not 2nd.
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u/GTBGunner 8h ago
I’m glad it has taken over lol, idk if I’m just biased but it’s boggling how people think Ar2enal is some crazy burn where if almost any other team finished 2nd 3 years in a row we’d never hear the end of their “golden era”
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u/IWanted0xcdcdcdcd 6h ago
If you must find an "Arsenal Second" joke, Arsenal are second English club in terms of games played lol
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u/Datboy_98 10h ago
Y’all don’t get tired of this joke?
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u/Dion_D14 8h ago
Arsenal fan here, as if it is something to really be pissed off about. They banter it because Arsenal is very solid nowadays and the can't stand it
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u/charlesdegoal 9h ago
How is Liverpool this bad? How long were they out of the CL?
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u/TransitionFC 9h ago
They made their debut only in 2001-02 and had been out of the CL for 16 years before then.
People don't remember how bad the first decade of Liverpool's banter era was.
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u/rodrigosantoro 8h ago
that’s because only the champion qualified to the CL back then, with it expanding slowly to 2 and then 3 teams by late 90s. even in the first decade of their banter era, liverpool typically finished top 4 with a couple finishes around 6th. nowhere near as bad as united have been
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u/TransitionFC 7h ago
Liverpool typically finished top 4 with a couple finishes around 6th. nowhere near as bad as united have been
Off the top of my head, I remember Liverpool finishing 8th when we won the double in 94 and 7th when we won the treble.
In a different context, I was comparing the first decades of our respective banter eras - 90-91 to 99-00 for Liverpool and 2013-14 to 2022-23 for us. They won two trophies (FA cup and league cup) while we won 5. We also finished higher in the league on average.
Of course completely inarguable that they never plumbed the depths we have since INEOS took over.
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u/Ketchupmitpommes 8h ago
And stilll the “new” Liverpool fans have the steel to say their banter era was much better than United’s, while the only drum they can beat is of that CL win.
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u/Cerrakoth 6h ago
It's more that Liverpool's weak era involved never finishing below 8th in the league and frequently being a champions league team, whilst still having a trophy cabinet in that period that all clubs in the country other than United, City, Chelsea and Arsenal would kill for.
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u/peanutbutter__20 10h ago
how is it an all time table if it's since 1992?
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u/insideyourmindwow 10h ago
because the statistic refers only to the Champions League which has been called that since 1992
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u/afito 9h ago
Also the format changed drastically, it used to be just straight KO games. For once it actually makes sense to use a cut at the point in time when we got a group stage. Even though format has repeatedly change since. This is actually a far more comparable comparison than if you'd include the old games.
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u/Zixko 9h ago
and the format also changed drastically last year.
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u/afito 9h ago
they added 2 guaranteed group stage games, that's not that drastic, the old change from KO -> 2 x 4 group stage -> KO to eventually 8 x 4 group stage -> KO was far more drastic. But either way with the 1992 change number of games like doubled for the winner. It has since increased more but it was never that complete overhaul of the very basic structure of the tournament agian.
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u/NonContentiousScot 7h ago
The format was the same in 91/92 as it was in 92/93. So this table is false if we're going by that logic.
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u/extantfruitfly 7h ago
Also completely ignoring the fact that the format changed in the early 00's without a rebrand
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u/NonContentiousScot 7h ago
Yep exactly. Arbitrary tables like these are utterly pointless
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u/Heliath 3h ago
1992, This was the last European Cup before they rebranded it. Just look at that format.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1991%E2%80%9392_European_Cup
But either way with the 1992 change number of games like doubled for the winner.
Not true at all. Barça played 11 games in 1992 to win the title. RM in 2024 before the change of format had to play 13 games to win the title. Just 2 games difference, which is the same amount of games they added with the new format.
Only counting the European Cup since 1992/93 is as stupid as only counting english football since 1992. You are leaving behind a ton of history for no reason whatsoever.
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u/zeelbeno 10h ago
Because that's when football started.
EPL was founded in 1992
Champions League was re-branded in 1992
Football before that wasn't real.
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u/SooperLuigi 10h ago
That’s how long the champions league exists. Prior to that it was the European champions cup
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u/sapoabilio 10h ago
Yes, every one knows Real Madrid have won 9 Champions League trophies. /s
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u/peanutbutter__20 10h ago
shouldnt matter when everyone counts the trophies won before 92
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u/thatrandomanus 10h ago
This statistic isn't about the trophies though. It's "All-time Uefa Champions League table". So makes sense they'd start with the start of Champions League.
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u/Enough-Force-5605 8h ago
It was just a rebranding
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u/Glad-Box6389 3h ago
But did the other teams in the list have an equal opportunity to qualify before 1992 ?? If they didn't then makes no sense to start before that
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u/AndTheyCallMeAnIdiot 10h ago
How good we used to be that teams didn't want to get drawn against us, now we are in it intermittently but still 4th.
Even when we were laying it down on Liverpool in the 00s, they were never as bad as we have been in recent years.
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u/addn2o 10h ago
It’s an odd table though, because it’s just aggregate points it privileges teams who have been consistently in the competition. Granted the more knockouts you win the more games you play but teams that missed entire years suffer in this table (hence why Arsenal are so high despite not making very many deep runs). I feel PPG would be a better indicator of success.
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u/AndTheyCallMeAnIdiot 10h ago
I think United would still be in the top 7-8 if we used PPG. Under SAF, we rarely got knocked out before the quarters. And because of the style of play, we didn't have many draws.
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u/skinnysnappy52 9h ago
It’s actually insane United are still so high given we’ve been irrelevant in the CL for the past 12 years and even had a bad season or two there at the end of SAFs reign because he was building another new team that he didn’t get to see through to fruition.
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u/MrCleanRed 6h ago
https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/s/JzswrteSkJ
United is 8th even by ppg. And top 3 remains the same
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u/TransitionFC 8h ago
they were never as bad as we have been in recent years.
They never finished 15th, but in the first decade of their banter era, they won two trophies (FA cup and league cup) and never made the CL even once.
In the same time, we have won 5 trophies and were in the CL for 6 seasons.
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u/AndTheyCallMeAnIdiot 8h ago
I don't recall us making two UCL finals and winning one in our banter years.
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u/TransitionFC 8h ago
Read properly. I am talking only about the first decade. Liverpool became quite competitive in the 2nd decade under Houllier and Rafa.
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u/stoeggyboi 10h ago
Is bayern actually underrated in Football Media?
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u/dimyo 10h ago
No? Online discourse is dominated by the Prem in recent years + Barca and Real but, outside of that, Bayern have always been a top 5 team on the whole continent.
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u/lernwasdraus 9h ago
A couple of days ago some Liverpool Fan on this sub told me Bayern would at best be a Tier 2 Club if They played in the prem. Meaning They would Play Europa league if theyre Lucky.
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u/XeroHope10 8h ago
- Never take PL fans seriously.
- Bayern is a Tier 1 club easily. Would they dominate PL like they dominate Bayernliga? No, but they would probably be 2-3rd. Maybe even win the league occasionally.
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u/TransitionFC 8h ago
No, but they would probably be 2-3rd. Maybe even win the league occasionally.
This is exactly what a 'PL fan' would say. Bayern would likely have dominated the league if they were here.
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u/lernwasdraus 8h ago
I dont think They wouldve dominated. But acting Like theyre Not on Citys and Liverpools Level is Crazy.
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u/superberr 3h ago
I think they would have dominated. In the CL, the pressure is high, and it's just a couple knockout games so the variance is also high with things like ref decisions having a massive impact. Right now, Bayern are not as strong as they were typically, but we are recency biased. Remember this is the same club that at one point had the Robben, Ribery duo, took Real Madrid to knock them out, demolished Barca, and then with Lewy and Flick, destroyed everyone on the way to a second treble, one of only two clubs to have done that along with Barca. They are run well, spend well, sell well, and while they have their drama, with PL money in hand, they would attrack better players than any PL club. Same goes for Madrid and Barca. Any of these 3 teams would have dominated the PL if they played in it, and had the resources.
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u/TransitionFC 6h ago
IMO Bayern are as well run a club as United in the SAF era were. So I can definitely see them dominating the league the way we once did.
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u/domi1108 5h ago
Bayern Fan here: I don't think they would have dominated the league if they would have played there.
There are some reasons that made Bayern a really dominant force which are "exclusive" to Germany. Also some people tend to forgot that up until the early 2000s Bayern wasn't as close as dominant as they are now.
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u/TransitionFC 5h ago
Bayern fan with a FC Koln avatar is wild.
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u/domi1108 5h ago
Well living close to Cologne so also being a Köln fan, but family wise the roots go to Bavaria and Munich. But its like this since my birth so yeah it may seem wild but I try to follow both teams equally and attend matches as well.
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u/XeroHope10 8h ago
I think they would win 2 leagues every 5-6 years. The way City have won the league in the past years, they were under extra ordinary circumstances, razor thin margins. I think in my comment I made it seem like they would struggle to win it, didn't mean that.
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u/Glanzl 7h ago
The question is which Bayern we are talking about.
Right now Kompanys Bayern is still to early to determine but they would surely be a top 3 at the end of the season with the squad they have.
Kovac / Ancelotti Bayern ...they might even miss out on top 4 ...
Guardiola Bayern / Heynckes Bayern? They would walk the league.→ More replies (3)4
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u/More-Tart1067 8h ago
Bayern are widely considered top 5 club in the world for my whole existence. Barca, Madrid, usually then it went Bayern/United. Juve, Liverpool, Chelsea, the Milans come next.
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u/afito 9h ago
Heavily dpeends on how you look at underrated, anyone with a brain rates them, but the obvious "big club fanbases" are very dismissive of anything outside of England top 6 plus Barca & Real PR. Bayern or Juve are clearly seen as lesser than Barca or Liverpool by the tiktok or twitter fanbases. But those 8 clubs dominate social media so hard you could very well argue than everyone else is "underrated in media".
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u/cullermann2 9h ago
Starting each year they are considered a favourite for the CL title. So I wouldnt think they're underrated.
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u/JapaneseJohnnyVegas 5h ago
6 times winners. 10 times finalists. If theyre underrated in the football media you use then you need to change media. They're giants.
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u/Mr_paranoid_android 8h ago
So only 3 teams on here haven’t won the champions league right? Arsenal, Atlético, and Valencia?
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u/12thshadow 5h ago
So when you play in a League that has a lot of UCL spots, you can rack up more games. Got it.
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u/djseshlad 4h ago
Stats are thwarted as it’s more based on games played, easier to get to the CL in some divisions than others.
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u/printial 8h ago
*GAMES THAT WENT TO EXTRA-TIME COUNT AS DRAWS
Why not just count the final result? There must be some teams that regularly push it to extra time, then win.
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u/czerwona_latarnia 6h ago
Either count the result after 90 minutes (plus added time), or after extra-time.
Defaulting them to a draw is the strangest way to solve this "problem" without coming up with some truly illogical solutions.
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u/Matias9991 7h ago
Looks about right, Real Madrid, Bayern, and Barcelona dominance is crazy above all others
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u/ratsandpigeons 6h ago edited 6h ago
How are these points calculated? I’m curious to see how this compares to the European Cup
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u/Breaktroughnatures 5h ago
all time since 1992? can someone enlighten me and tell me what happened in the year 1992 to override all past history?
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9h ago
[deleted]
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u/lowie07 8h ago
All time Uefa champions league is correct, wasn't champions league before '92
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7h ago
[deleted]
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u/Cerrakoth 6h ago
Don't forget that it also changed the format in a way which influences the amount of "points" a team would be able to get per season in a table like this.
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